The State of the Supergirl Fandom

I know that entering this forum post, we are already coming in hot from some other heated conversations that needed to be moderated before. Admittedly, I am spending so much time preparing for SDCC, I haven't moderated as much as I needed to in the last 12 hours. So for that I apologize.

As much as you are all able, I would like to ask that you all try and come in to this thread with a clear head and reset your emotions. I know this isn't easy but I would like to see if we can have a civil discourse on this very difficult topic

Kelly, not all abuse looks the same. I have provided a link to a tweet that I believe may be helpful if you are so inclined to listen. That being said, you may well dismiss the evidence, but I think it's worth a try.

Kelly, not all abuse looks the same. I have provided a link to a tweet that I believe may be helpful if you are so inclined to listen. That being said, you may well dismiss the evidence, but I think it's worth a try.

I have watched, rewatched....and rewatched again, this series. I have gone through extensive training in date abuse, spousal abuse, etc....

If someone was abused, and what they saw from this series bothered them.....they truly need more counseling....and I am being totally serious about that...more counseling is needed.

This in response to @Kelly saying I was playing the victim (in the other forum post)

I am and would never play a victim. I didn't think you were telling me not to be on this site. I was merely pointing out that my opinion is just as right or wrong as yours. Because no opinion is right or wrong.

Thank you admin for starting this thread. I was actually thinking of leaving this website for some place less hostile but I believe I will stick around. After all my opinion (on a fictional show with fictional characters) is just as important as everyone elses.

Your opinion has as much right to be stated as mine and is just as important.....but that does not make it correct.

Several abuse victims have said that he reminds them of their abuser. You think they're all delusional?

Littlestar, don't bother trying to reason with Kelly. These people can be confronted with all the evidence in the world and they'll still turn a blind eye because he's a hot white man. Let it go.

I know that entering this forum post, we are already coming in hot from some other heated conversations that needed to be moderated before. Admittedly, I am spending so much time preparing for SDCC, I haven't moderated as much as I needed to in the last 12 hours. So for that I apologize.

As much as you are all able, I would like to ask that you all try and come in to this thread with a clear head and reset your emotions. I know this isn't easy but I would like to see if we can have a civil discourse on this very difficult topic

What I stated in the prior thread was exactly my feelings on this subject. Maybe it came off harsh, but I will not apologize for that, because it comes from what I have encountered and there is nothing emotional, angry or dramatized....it is exactly what I have seen. I think that for a long time there was a passive/aggressive nature to this situation....and I believe that is the reason it has been allowed to grow as much as it has....the fans that are not a part of an of these fandoms have stayed quiet...that time has passed. If there is a group of people, harassing a person, and 5 of them are heavily in the harassment and the other few are just standing by watching, and validate and justify the harassment either by saying its ok, or pointing their fingers other directions....they are still a part of the harassment in my humble opinion. What I stated was simply what I have seen.

Kelly, not all abuse looks the same. I have provided a link to a tweet that I believe may be helpful if you are so inclined to listen. That being said, you may well dismiss the evidence, but I think it's worth a try.

BTW, I have seen that tweet...

And nothing I have seen in this series even touches the area of abuse either in a dating relationship, friendship, or marriage....and to think that it does...

1. disrespects these actors who would never stand for that...
2. disrespects these writers who take what they do far to seriously for that...
3. disrespects fans that would stand up strong against something like that if it were in fact actually a reality on the series.

Just to let you know where I stand on it.

I don't think the point of this thread is to change people's opinions. Those are formed too powerfully by their own experiences.

It was my hope that we could share opinions and agree to disagree. Or just I don't know shake hands and part ways as friends.

Listen I don't know what the right answer is but until I am blue in the face, I just hope we can find peace in this.

Littlestar, don't bother trying to reason with Kelly. These people can be confronted with all the evidence in the world and they'll still turn a blind eye because he's a hot white man. Let it go.

I agree Littlestar. She's not going to listen so don't waste your breath or your typing in this case. She is apparently the expert on abuse and no one else knows anything.

All people are talking about SC hostility but no ones talks about all the Karamels that have sent murder gifs to people and called them f'in dykes. Guess its okay. I just don't like the generalization of saying that all SC are bad. Like the admin said we should never generalize a whole group.

Its not ok for them to do that to other people, you are correct. I totally agree...
When generalizing all SC, let me clarify...not 100%, not 95%, not 90%...not sure that I could even put a % on it. I actually converse daily with a few SC peeps...and enjoy it. But, I can truthfully say they are the far minority. As far as fights between SC vs. KM etc....in those cases, each can directly confront each other. These actors, writers, etc....can't do that. They can block them, and they have begun to do that...but they can't come out of the gate slamming it down....they just can't. So in fairness to them, it is not on equal ground, whereas a KM vs. SC is....that is just the nature of this situation.

As far as "my opinion" on the subject of whether this is abuse or not......honestly not a big deal, and don't take it personally......that isn't really where I'm coming from.

The reality of all of this to me is this....

1. It isn't about right or wrong here for me...you feel its abuse...ok.
2. What happens on the series this next season, is already underway, and was planned months ago and as they go along they will tweek it. I do not believe the writers believe what they were writing was an abusive relationship anymore than I do, so I don't for see any changes in it other than, Mon-El is elsewhere....the question is......who will he return as? that will be answered this next season. All of this gnashing of teeth, heads to the brick wall, crying and screaming on twitter and tumblr...won't change that. Because .... again, the writers do not believe what they wrote is an abusive relationship. That is pretty simple...
3. So for me, whether you believe it to be abuse or not....not the problem for me, difference of opinions...happens all the time......BUT for SDCC, the question is will the actors, show runners, and fans be able to enjoy themselves and do what they went there to do....promote the show and enjoy their favs....
4. You justify the anger on Tumblr and Twitter...ok...that is perfectly fine. Don't expect me to agree with it....but it is truly fine with me how you believe.....again, I'm talking about can the fans enjoy themselves at SDCC, can the actors and show runners do what they need to do, is there going to be a huge change in protocol because their is the possibility of major disruptions, will they be able to film in a way that they need to, and can they interact with fans in an enjoyable fun way....

Honestly...that is all I'm worried about at this time. I just want to enjoy season 3 next year with the actors and writers like we did in Season 1 without rude people disrupting it. Its just not much more of an issue to me than that. I have to say, Kevin Smith could not have described it any better in his feelings about what was being thrown at him yesterday....his feelings are exactly mine. *big eyes*, hands in the air, what the heck are you talking about?" That has been my thought process from the beginning....until it got to the point that the harassment was truly over the top.

if it is a huge issue for you, and you believe that it is abuse, he's a horrible slave owner, and a misogynist and has shown absolutely no growth as a young man...so be it. Write them letters, make videos and send it to them. Let them know EXACTLY how you feel. That is definitely your right.

Littlestar, don't bother trying to reason with Kelly. These people can be confronted with all the evidence in the world and they'll still turn a blind eye because he's a hot white man. Let it go.

That is hysterical...but honestly, thank you for being honest with how you feel about. Seriously...

Several abuse victims have said that he reminds them of their abuser. You think they're all delusional?

I would not know if that were true or not for them, I don't know them personally as I stated before, if they saw that as abusive, more counseling may be needed for them...again, I don't know their situation i don't know if they have gone through any kind of counseling...they might need to watch what they are watching on TV if that bothered them that much.........I can only go by what I have experienced myself in my internships, and the people I have dealt with through that....

Oh and on the note of the Kevin Smith twitter incident from yesterday, the man went out of his way and responded to a hateful tweet. He was not tagged in the original tweet by the op, so how he found the tweet...who knows. The response he got from angry twitter fans yesterday is all on him. I'm not sure what he expected to happen by responding to hate tweets; he literally put himself in that ridiculous situation.

That being said, I'm not advocating for those initial disgusting tweets, but I am saying that he should have never given them the attention they clearly seek.

Littlestar, don't bother trying to reason with Kelly. These people can be confronted with all the evidence in the world and they'll still turn a blind eye because he's a hot white man. Let it go.

That is hysterical...but honestly, thank you for being honest with how you feel about it. Seriously... Keep it coming....

Several abuse victims have said that he reminds them of their abuser. You think they're all delusional?

I would not know if that were true or not for them, I don't know them personally as I stated before, if they saw that as abusive, more counseling may be needed for them...again, I don't know their situation i don't know if they have gone through any kind of counseling...they might need to watch what they are watching on TV if that bothered them that much.........I can only go by what I have experienced myself in my internships, and the people I have dealt with through that....

So what you just said is that people who are reminded of their abuse need counseling so that they don't think it's abuse. Is that right?

Several abuse victims have said that he reminds them of their abuser. You think they're all delusional?

I would not know if that were true or not for them, I don't know them personally as I stated before, if they saw that as abusive, more counseling may be needed for them...again, I don't know their situation i don't know if they have gone through any kind of counseling...they might need to watch what they are watching on TV if that bothered them that much.........I can only go by what I have experienced myself in my internships, and the people I have dealt with through that....

So what you just said is that people who are reminded of their abuse need counseling so that they don't think it's abuse. Is that right?

If what they saw on this series brought back memories of their abuse from something as innocent as this relationship was...yes, they may need some more help, or counseling.

Several abuse victims have said that he reminds them of their abuser. You think they're all delusional?

I would not know if that were true or not for them, I don't know them personally as I stated before, if they saw that as abusive, more counseling may be needed for them...again, I don't know their situation i don't know if they have gone through any kind of counseling...they might need to watch what they are watching on TV if that bothered them that much.........I can only go by what I have experienced myself in my internships, and the people I have dealt with through that....

So what you just said is that people who are reminded of their abuse need counseling so that they don't think it's abuse. Is that right?

If what they saw on this series brought back memories of their abuse from something as innocent as this relationship was...yes, they may need some more help, or counseling.

You would disregard the experiences of abuse survivors because it doesn't fit your ideas of abuse? You, who have never been abused? That's.......I don't even have the words. You should be ashamed of yourself.

You are right Kelly. I agree with every word. There is nothing abusive or toxic about Mon-El or karamel. Its the SC fandom people that is abusive and toxic. If they really think what they think then they must have a problem with many couples on tv shows. We are talking all shows here and Movies and characters like My name here Starlord, Tony Stark, Bond, jaime from Outlander. Hell i could go on and on here.
We also have evidence of how toxic they are from Leanne The panel speaker at SDCC and known to champion Kara and Mon-El relationship. And she got hate for that from SC fandom. Thats not right.

Rahul Kohli from iZombie who guest starred on SG in s2 said in a video interview that SC fandom are toxic and hooligans.

Yesterday Kevin Smith got the taste from them as well on Twitter.

David disabled the comments on Instagram of a pic with Chris because he is afraid of this toxic side of the fandom is leaving hate upon hate. That is just so much wrong in their behavior. Its vile and toxic

Now i also even believe Katie see it herself as well. Its no accident Melissa posted that Katie took the pic of Chris, Mehcad and David. It was to show Katie likes Chris and i am sure they had an understanding to post this. But instead some of them again showed their toxic side. Its sad to see Katie coming on the show brings such vile people with her. I think this is also the sole reason she is not on any social media. She knows how toxic her fans are.
I just had to say something to side with Kelly on this she is one of the many that also is beginning to see how SC fandom are

There's another post on here talking about the toxicity KM shippers have displayed. I suggest you read it and stop pretending your side are angels.

Both sides, all sides, everyone one would seem to be behaving in a way that passionately defends their side. That seems like human nature. But if I had to sum it up this is what I see:

There is a side that feels the character of Mon-El is bad. Bad for Kara, bad influence, and they have gathered evidence to support their argument. I can't argue that. Makes sense. You can question the motives behind thoses determinations. Is it to remove him as an obstacle so Kara can have another love interest? Possibly. There are all sorts of motives. None is wrong.

On the other hand there is a group that likes Mon-El and believes that because his character is romantically tied to Kara they have a righteous power to protect him against all others. No one can touch him. James, Lena, Cat or whomever.

Now, both sides have made errors in my opinion. And let me be clear, not all are doing it, it's just some bad apples on the sides.

Here's where I get concerned, it's affecting the actors, showrunners, and crew. And not affecting them in terms of positive change. More like the whole fandom is being painted as bad apples and the fans' access to the actors and crew is being diminished.

Standing up for what you believe in is an important step in being American I believe, however there are ways of doing it right and doing it wrong.

Supergirl in the end is a product, developed by a business and designed to sell advertisements. That's it. It isn't going to cure cancer, it isn't going to change politics, and it isn't going to "fix" the country (if you feel that it needs fixing).

The truth is, Supergirl is left leaning because a market study showed that it wouldn't hurt the overall numbers. Furthermore arguments about "queer-bating" and what not are again all calculated and measured. There isn't a single decision made on any TV show that isn't taking into account the bottom line and that is $$$.

TV shows only affect social change because the advertising companies are willing to buy the ad spots. When Supergirl came to the CW it's ad costs went up by a huge percentage.

All the letter writing, campaigning and booing at conventions is going to do is push access to the celebrities further away. Even a PR nightmare like the 100 had with the Clexa thing ended up going nowhere because the numbers remained.

I think at this point I am digressing. What I really want more than all of this is to have the polite and well reasoned discourse again that this site is known for. I want us all to remember that we are fans of a show and we don't need to agree on everything but we can still be fans together.

All good points.

One thing I would like to add is that even thought I am a SC shipper, I don't think that Kara/Lena will ever be together. Even if Monel left there would just be someone else. The most important relationship on the show is Kara and Alex. In my opinion, Monel is disrespectful to Kara and doesn't listen to her.

i can't agree with you more! Alex and Kara are the heart of the show! I have never seen a more beautiful and healthy example of a sister sibling relationship than on Supergirl

You are right Kelly. I agree with every word. There is nothing abusive or toxic about Mon-El or karamel. Its the SC fandom people that is abusive and toxic. If they really think what they think then they must have a problem with many couples on tv shows. We are talking all shows here and Movies and characters like My name here Starlord, Tony Stark, Bond, jaime from Outlander. Hell i could go on and on here.
We also have evidence of how toxic they are from Leanne The panel speaker at SDCC and known to champion Kara and Mon-El relationship. And she got hate for that from SC fandom. Thats not right.

Rahul Kohli from iZombie who guest starred on SG in s2 said in a video interview that SC fandom are toxic and hooligans.

Yesterday Kevin Smith got the taste from them as well on Twitter.

David disabled the comments on Instagram of a pic with Chris because he is afraid of this toxic side of the fandom is leaving hate upon hate. That is just so much wrong in their behavior. Its vile and toxic

Now i also even believe Katie see it herself as well. Its no accident Melissa posted that Katie took the pic of Chris, Mehcad and David. It was to show Katie likes Chris and i am sure they had an understanding to post this. But instead some of them again showed their toxic side. Its sad to see Katie coming on the show brings such vile people with her. I think this is also the sole reason she is not on any social media. She knows how toxic her fans are.
I just had to say something to side with Kelly on this she is one of the many that also is beginning to see how SC fandom are

Starlord: first and foremost I'm glad you've edited your original post from the last thread about 'straight' couples. I'm guessing you realized how that made you sound, no?

Ahh yes only ONE part of this huge fandom is toxic. This whole fandom is going down in flames it seems. I've already provided a link showing some of the nasty karamel shippers, take a look.

We've all agreed that those people who attacked Rahul are awful. There's no denying it. And I don't think anyone has tried to deny it. But you cannot (as the Admin has said more than once) blame an entire group on the actions of some.

The Kevin Smith situation is a tricky one to discuss. He literally went out of his way to interact with the hate being indirectly tweeted about him. I'm not advocating for those tweets but the man should have never given them any attention. He put himself in a situation where nothing good would come of it.

As for Katie, we can speculate on why she doesn't have social media. But if you really want to know, she has stated in past interviews that she doesn't trust herself to use it as she considers herself to be a notorious drunk texter. She has also stated that she doesn't think people would really care about what she has to say on a personal level. As far as present time, it's highly likely that she'll continue to avoid twitter with how things went down with her brother.

And again you're here making sweeping generalizations on behalf of an entire group solely based on the actions of the few vocal ones within said group. Can you please take a look at what you're saying and what everyone else is saying..even Kelly (who you 100% agree with) understands that the actions of the few do not reflect the many.