The State of the Supergirl Fandom

I fear those who have so much vitrol against Mon-El or any character for that matter, have some deep seeded issues that need addressing. I fear many are projecting their real life issues onto a ficticional show. I fear they have a warped view on reality. I worry they don't realize there is no perfect relationship... that arguments or stumbling don't always mean devistation and abuse.

Great thoughts evrafter, thanks for sharing! This last paragraph rubs me the wrong way though. There is a reason people 'project', and it's because they find too much similarity between something they went through and something being shown on TV for entertainment purposes. People watch these shows to be entertained, not to reminded of the awful things they've gone through in life. We each have our own reality, what someone else takes issue with you or I might not.

Here's an awful example but, if someone who was raped in real life watches a scene in tv show/movie of a character being raped, would that not affect them? Would it not bring up horrific memories?

That's what seems to be happening here. People have expressed that these types of viewers need more therapy. And that idea there is just a big no from me. Therapy is meant to help people heal and overcome, not make you forget or turn a blind eye.

And nobody's saying their relationship needs to be perfect, just healthy. Healthy couples argue, that's a fact. But they argue about inconsequential things; they don't lash out at each other over the basis of who each person is. If they do do that, can we really be calling them a healthy couple? If couples are finding so much fault in who their significant other is should that couple really be together?

Very well put! Although I continue to take issue with the whole 'agenda' thing. Because while you make an excellent point of what agenda could possibly mean, it has become evident that within the SG shipping fandom 'agenda' is almost always in reference to the idea that SC shippers are trying to push a f/f couple on us. 'Agenda' holds so much negative connotation and when brought up in discussions/arguments of a f/f ship it becomes grossly homophobic.

Well I have explained on how I understand agenda and I intend to keep using it as that. To me agenda (though I do think that it gets overused) in the end about a deeply dishonest way of arguing.

Like saying one thing, while having a different true intention. That is not exclusive to gay fans. This very much exists among hereto fans as well.

Let's say there is a couple A & B and a rival couple B & C. Such dishonest behavior would be trying to trash the actor or actress C in the hope that they will get fired or leave because the fans of A & B want C out of their hair or want the fans out of their hair. Or they might even start praising C and go on about how him or her should find a new job elsewhere, but they don't actually care about C, they really just want their piece for A & B. Or they might suddenly support a pairing between C & D, not because they actually like C &D (the lines there are often fluid) but because it is convenient for A & B. A lot of these are sometimes kinda annoying but harmless.

Still, you have things like trashing all other couples and characters to make your couple A & B look good in comparison. Trying to scare people off shipping any other couple, just so you can use "See, nobody likes them" as an argument as to why the show should go with your couple. And of course aggressively lobbying to get people fired beyond "well if they happen to be unpopular, I'm sure the show will do the right thing eventually". And worst of course direct stalking or threatening of the actors.

Most of these are all things I've seen plenty of in fandoms where there were only hereto couples involved (Vampire Diaries springs to mind). And at this point f/f or m/m fans are just the same in that way. (in a very weird way this also speaks to a positive development because in the past I think fans of gay couples felt like they were on the defensive and forced to be nice. Now they are just as nasty and aggressive as everybody else)

And it's just a really obnoxious attitude. Because it means you constantly feel like the person you are talking to is being dishonest or like they constantly view everything as "political" in the sense of how they can make the best argument about how the other side is inferior and bad and horrible and how that totally means they couple is best and should be done or get all the screentime.

I don't even think that fans do it intentionally a lot of the time, like some great conspiracy. It's just a gut reaction to want to defend the honor of a fictional couple, and they start to lose sight and start to act terrible to others in the process.

If somebody were raped by a guy in a red hat and on the show they start watching the main character suddenly starts wearing a red hat and gives them flashbacks => would it make sense to demand the show change it?

Ahh see now you're just twisting this. The 'triggers' here are actions and words, don't try to trivialize this.

If a show causes somebody anguish rather than entertainment then imo they should stop watching for their own sake.

I agree. But that doesn't mean that those people can't voice their concerns about said show. And I'm not talking about those outrageous fans who take things too far. I'm talking about people who bring up their issues with the show, but then are shut down by others.

My point... Relationships have their ugly moments If some of the ugly is shown on tv, and its a trigger for someone, they shouldn't watch. But what is a trigger for someone doesn't mean it's bad for all. That trigger doesn't mean it's reality. It doesn't make it fact. Triggers can be REMINDERS of a past event. But it doesn't necessarily mean the past represents present.

If a group of writers and executives don't see a character as abusive, it's probable that character isn't abusive. Doesn't mean behaviors of said character won't trigger someone's personal experience. So my initial comments about fans who experience these triggers but then attack writers, actors, the rest of the fan base, THAT is what worries me.

No doubt, I agree that relationships have ugly moments. But in the case of the show, they try to play off these ugly moments as cute or funny. I'd rather they work through them as a real relationship would.

I didn't mean to imply that a 'trigger' for some people is a 'trigger' for all. But it is a reality to those people, it is their fact and we can't just ignore that because it's not ours.

Obviously the writers' intentions weren't to create an abusive character (at least I hope it wasn't). But fact of the matter is that Mon-El is coming off as such to many fans and it's creating so much ridiculous chaos in the fandom. I don't condone all the hateful attacks on the cast/writers, but I can understand why those fans are pissed. I believe they're voices (when respectful) should be heard and not immediately shut down by being told they're overreacting or are projecting.

Very well put! Although I continue to take issue with the whole 'agenda' thing. Because while you make an excellent point of what agenda could possibly mean, it has become evident that within the SG shipping fandom 'agenda' is almost always in reference to the idea that SC shippers are trying to push a f/f couple on us. 'Agenda' holds so much negative connotation and when brought up in discussions/arguments of a f/f ship it becomes grossly homophobic.

Well I have explained on how I understand agenda and I intend to keep using it as that. To me agenda (though I do think that it gets overused) in the end about a deeply dishonest way of arguing.

Like saying one thing, while having a different true intention. That is not exclusive to gay fans. This very much exists among hereto fans as well.

Let's say there is a couple A & B and a rival couple B & C. Such dishonest behavior would be trying to trash the actor or actress C in the hope that they will get fired or leave because the fans of A & B want C out of their hair or want the fans out of their hair. Or they might even start praising C and go on about how him or her should find a new job elsewhere, but they don't actually care about C, they really just want their piece for A & B. Or they might suddenly support a pairing between C & D, not because they actually like C &D (the lines there are often fluid) but because it is convenient for A & B.

Trashing all other couples and characters to make your couple A & B look good in comparison. Trying to scare people off shipping any other couple, just so you can use "See, nobody likes them" as an argument as to why the show should go with your couple.

These are all things I've seen plenty of in fandoms where there were only hereto couples involved (Vampire Diaries springs to mind).

And it's just a really obnoxious attitude. Because it means you constantly feel like the person you are talking to is being dishonest or like they constantly view everything as "political" in the sense of how they can make the best argument about how the other side is inferior and bad and horrible and how that totally means they couple is best and should be done or get all the screentime.

I understand your point, I do. But that doesn't really seem to fit the bill here, at least not to me. I don't see much of other ships being praised/lorded over others. I see a great deal of people tearing down the karamel relationship on it's own.

To me agenda (though I do think that it gets overused) in the end about a deeply dishonest way of arguing.

In the case of this shipdom, people think that the only reason for the dislike of Mon-El is that he is in the way of their ship. But I think we've seen that this isn't always true. People are crying 'agenda' when they're under the impression that his dislike is due to shipping. It's under these circumstances that agenda becomes synonymous with the 'gay' agenda and that in and of itself is an entirely problematic way of thinking.

Ahh see now you're just twisting this. The 'triggers' here are actions and words, don't try to trivialize this.

It does not matter if the trigger is hat or a word like "you look so hot, baby" or an action like putting an arm on somebody's shoulder from behind.

Neither the hat nor the words nor the action was there with the intent to trigger. And it's about accepting that those hats or actions or words have alternative explanations.

To me it's pretty clear that neither Mon-El or Alex or Lena (remember how she and Jack JOKED about the fact that Lena used to throw a microscope at his head during a fight?) are meant to be written as abusive people and hence they also won't be written and end up as abusive people. So to call them abusive is to me in the end a misnomer.

I'm talking about people who bring up their issues with the show, but then are shut down by others.

Everybody can bring up issues with the show. The problems are always just the people who don't take no for an answer. And especially on something based on deeply personal experience, you just can't expect every viewer to share the same position. And somebody saying "I hear you, but that is just not my experience, I just don't feel the same way" is something that just has a high likelihood of happening.

I didn't mean to imply that a 'trigger' for some people is a 'trigger' for all. But it is a reality to those people, it is their fact and we can't just ignore that because it's not ours.

Of course we can. We are not friends. We and the show are not friends. The show can't make every person who will ever watch it happy and they can't account for every personal issue any of their million plus viewers might have.

Obviously the writers' intentions weren't to create an abusive character (at least I hope it wasn't). But fact of the matter is that Mon-El is coming off as such to many fans and it's creating so much ridiculous chaos in the fandom. I don't condone all the hateful attacks on the cast/writers, but I can understand why those fans are pissed. I believe they're voices (when respectful) should be heard and not immediately shut down by being told they're overreacting or are projecting.

I can understand having an instinctive reaction. But I also think that then they also have to accept that that is just not how the show is going to go down. Mon-El most likely isn't going to turn into an abuser just because he had a scene that reminded somebody of something.

If a person saw Supergirl the tv show, got turned off by a scene and decided to never watch it again they would have my condolences. But if seems like the people are staying around to defend and obsess over their ship and trying to get the show to make their ship happen, it seems like they are just using this as an excuse to get what they want in a shipper sense.

If for example an actor and his portrayal consistently rubs you the wrong way in a deeply personal way, then I'm sorry, the best solution really is to stop watching. If you can't accept the interpretation of the show, that Kara and Mon-El have had as far as the writers are concerned some deep genuine feelings for each other, again, to me that's time to move on. I've personally moved on from many shows because I found a certain development was too unrealistic and unpleasant.

Neither the hat nor the words nor the action was there with the intent to trigger. And it's about accepting that those hats or actions or words have alternative explanations.

I've already agreed that the intent obviously isn't there. And I agree, there are alternative explanations, one of which (abusive relationship traits) is being blasted by 'fans' right now.

To me it's pretty clear that neither Mon-El or Alex or Lena (remember how she and Jack JOKED about the fact that Lena used to throw a microscope at his head during a fight?) are meant to be written as abusive people and hence they also won't be written and end up as abusive people. So to call them abusive is to me in the end a misnomer.

Yeah I'm with you on that, I don't believe it was ever anyone's intention to write these characters as abusive. I don't see them as such. But I can see why some have taken issue with the relationship as it regretfully presents initial sings of emotional abuse. Again, that obviously wasn't the intent but it is becoming problematic that this is how people are interpreting it.

I didn't mean to imply that a 'trigger' for some people is a 'trigger' for all. But it is a reality to those people, it is their fact and we can't just ignore that because it's not ours.

Of course we can. We are not friends. We and the show are not friends. The show can't make every person who will ever watch it happy and they can't account for every personal issue any of their million plus viewers might have.

I wasn't insinuating that any of us or the show cater to those who cry foul. My point is that we can't pretend as if this stuff isn't happening; that there aren't people genuinely upset over one of their favorite tv shows. We can (and should) acknowledge things like this, doesn't mean we have to change anything.

But if seems like the people are staying around to defend and obsess over their ship and trying to get the show to make their ship happen, it seems like they are just using this as an excuse to get what they want in a shipper sense.

You fail to realize that people voicing their frustrations aren't all shippers. You've now turned the 'agenda' into a shipping thing which quickly falls into the 'gay' agenda issue. Take a look into the arguments on social media; majority of fans are in favor of Kara having no relationship.

I would suggest simply shipping your ship of choice, but please do so without dragging other aspects of the show. dont disparage, bully or harass actors, writers or other fans.

We tend to forget that happiness doesn't come as a result of getting something we don't have, but of appreciating what we do have.

Again, that obviously wasn't the intent but it is becoming problematic that this is how people are interpreting it.

And I think it's problematic if people are incapable of moving on from an interpretation they got stuck on and act like they try to force it as the only one and true interpretation. And again, the fact that they lock on on just one relationship and just one character rather than having a fair look at how a variety of characters on the show have acted with each other (again Lena and Jack joking about how she threw a hard object at him a fight, Mon-El talking about how he expects to be beaten up as punishment during training by Kara and her agreeing with that, Alex taking Kara to the kryptonite room and beating her to teach her a lesson about being more careful in the field) makes it really hard to buy that they really have a genuine interest in how relationships are portrayed on tv or on Supergirl in particular. And if at the same time they ferociously lobby for a ship of their choice AND also refuse to accept if the situation has changed (like: Mon-El used to want to protect Kara even if she didn't want it, to him taking her orders even if it puts her into danger, or Mon-El doubting Kara's heroism to Mon-El praising Kara's heroism over and over) to makes it even harder to truly get into their arguments.

But the big difference in all of these relationships is that they aren't being touted as the main relationship. Jack/Lena were barely given anything. Alex/Kara have shown how intense their relationship is, and those scenes aren't shown with quirky music in the background (like the DEO fight scene between Kara/Mon-El), they're meant to be serious and are shown as such. The writers have a bad habit of making light of the questionably problematic scenes between Kara and Mon-El; they shouldn't.

There is plenty of shippers who don't use these arguments and there are people who use those arguments and aren't shippers.

For everybody who isn't a shipper but shares those arguments, my response would always be, either consider that the show is going with a different interpretation and story or if you can't overcome this apprehension, watch something that doesn't upset you.

The sentence I bolded really hit the nail on the head! I pretty much agree with you here. I just find it unfortunate for those who can no longer enjoy a show that once brought them joy.

All I'm asking is that you not generalize/use blanket statements. You have a tendency to do it and it's just extremely frustrating.

There are plenty of accounts attacking characters; accounts attacking Mon-El, Maggie, Lena and so on. Characters getting hate is nothing new, and that's not our problem in the shipdom. People are allowed to hate all they like on a character, the problem is when people take their hate for a character and place it on real people. I think every actor has gotten hate at one point or another, but the three who seem to take the brunt of it are Chris, Floriana and Katie. I've seen people wishing death on all three of them..what kind of people do that? I'll tell you, people who can't differentiate between fiction and non-fiction.

No problem, Jordan860 is not a SC shipper and doesn't like Mon-El. I'm not a shipper and I don't like Mon-El (or Maggie for that matter). I remember VeeJer expressing their dislike for Mon-El and they're not a shipper either. There are people out there who don't like him and aren't SC shippers, we're just not as vocal/crazy about it as some of those SC shippers. Just because you don't see us doesn't mean we're not here.

I am Sorry if you see it like this. Never was my intention.

My favorite is Kara/Supergirl actually. But if you can find Where karamels write "#KillLena ect to writers on Twitter or create tumblr and Twitter accounts dedicated to just hating on Lena or others. Then be my guest. Would definitely say they are SC shippers seen their replies and writing things like "Kara is now free from the abuser to be with Lena"

Well they're not a SC shipper, they just strongly dislike Mon-El.

I get your point. But you're going about it all the wrong way. You're calling all people who dislike Mon-El SC shippers, which I've shown is wrong. That's why I tend to make myself clear in saying 'some' instead of calling out the entire SC fandom.

Would you assume that a huge majority of the people who dislike Lena are Karamels? By your logic I would think, yes. But I'm sure there are people who dislike her regardless of shipping. I'm not saying you're wrong to think that a lot of SC shippers dislike Mon-El, or that they didn't send Rahul hate. But the same is said for all those KM and Sanvers shippers who dislike Lena or spread hate about Katie.

My point is that the negativity in the shipdom goes all ways. The difference is that the SC side is much louder and upfront about it (which isn't a good thing) whereas KM and Sanvers sides are on the quieter side.

did you guys see the entire interview? did you see the part where Jeremy says sorry? people arent perfect and sometimes make mistakes. is he to be damned anyway or is he forgiven?

did you guys see the entire interview? did you see the part where Jeremy says sorry? people arent perfect and sometimes make mistakes. is he to be damned anyway or is forgiven?

I did. But he literally knew how fans would react. He knew they'd be upset. Did he think his actions would actually hurt people? Likely no. But that doesn't negate the fact that people are hurt.

The fact that even after the theatrics Katie stepped in to continue to offer her support to the shippers but was interrupted by yet another hurtful anti-lgbt comment from the cast is ridiculous.

This situation has gotten way out of hand. If they can't acknowledge that what they did was wrong and hurtful to many non-shippers then they will continue to be 'damned'. I think they should offer some sort of 'formal apology'. To what extent of an apology, I don't know. But something meaningful is better than the weak apology we (lgbt viewers) got.

It's a start. But I detest that he's turned this around to make himself the victim.

What kind of way of thinking is that? He made me feel shitty about my own sexuality but I haven't sent him any hurtful comments. So no, I haven't made him feel shitty about himself.

You guys really don't get it. It's nothing about his comment about being friends. It's the way he went about it. He didn't just sing it once and move on. He repeated it over and screamed it. That over the top response wasn't necessary. What do you guys have to say to those shippers who aren't part of the bad shippers?

Kara/Lena (SC) were formed as a direct result of wlw looking for some form of representation. There is a severe lack of wlw rep in media so fanon ships are born. To invalidate rep that wlw are in desperate need/want of is ugly. That's where sexuality comes in to play. Wlw rep (as non-canon as it is here) has been disrespectfully dismissed as a joke.

Jeremy acknowledged that what he did was hurtful, so why can't some of you? If you can't see it then it's likely you're not part of our community. And if you're not part of the community why are you trying to speak over our voices?

The emphasis wasn't essential, but is very much justified. Again it's not about sexuality. He reacted to the fact that so many people think there is something between Lena and Kara, and placed the emphasis there. Once more, this isn't straight vs gay, this is canon vs a fanfiction gone wild.

If Jeremy had something against LGBT, you'd think he said something about Alex/Maggie long ago? Nothing but positivity about Sanvers came from the cast, know why? It's canon. Sexuality got nothing to do with it.

I could see being disappointed my shipdom wasn't the shared viewpoint of my favorite cast. But.... I'm still not seeing how it was an attack on anyone's sexuality.

Let's change up the characters:

One shipdom wants Mickey Mouse to be with Daisy Duck, not Minnie Mouse. Let's ship them Dickey. Dickeys push and push for it--even to a point of attacking guest actors who portray Daisy's ex... Probably named Donald. But Mickey is with Minnie (obviously, they have no good shipname). Now... Jeremy sings, "Daisy and Mickey are just friends... It ain't gonna happen. They're...just... friends." Now, I could see Dickies being bummed Jeremy wasn't also a Dickie. But, wouldn't it be obsured to say Jeremy must then hate ducks???

I am in no way making fun. I was simply just trying to use two different characters EVERY one would know who I was talking about.

I could see SuperCorp fans being bummed, even mad at the cast for not seeing the "ship" happen in the future. But I simply can't see how it was an attack on a whole community... Most of which probably don't even watch Supergirl.

How do you guys still not get that this isn't just about some dumb ship? We've moved past that. But since y'all wanna harp on it then let's. The 'song' was supposed to be a recap of s2. How is adding anything about SC considered to be part of s2? It isn't, because it's not real, it's a fanon ship. So why even say it? He said it to get back at those fans who have been complete assholes (for lack of a better word). Fine. But in doing so, he inadvertently disrespected all of those shippers who have been nothing but kind. Like I keep saying, he didn't just sing it once and continue, no. He sang it repeatedly and pretty much screamed it. I'm sure the SC shippers know that their ship was never gonna happen, let's be real here. But did those peaceful fans deserve this? Certainly not. Jeremy could've expressed his distaste for the ship/shippers in a different setting, but he didn't. He chose to go all out at one of the most public settings ever. His outburst has warranted some of the backlash he's gotten. I'm not condoning those people who have taken things too far, but I am condoning those speaking out against what was said and done.

You guys really don't see how 'it's an attack on the whole community' because YOU ARE NOT A PART OF THE COMMUNITY! You don't understand what we've been through or are going through. You don't understand because you're not us. It's like a white person trying to invalidate the issues affecting POCs; they'll never understand. So if you're not a part of the LGBT community, yeah, you're not gonna understand. If someone tells you that you hurt their feelings with something you said, what do you do?
Typically we apologize, say it wasn't our intention and move on. We don't start claiming that that person isn't actually hurt, they're overreacting and they're wrong. (If this is something you actually do then wow you're a pretty awful person). What I'm asking is that you all accept that what has happened has managed to unintentionally hurt people whether you agree or not.

Sure Katie said "for once, it's not here" but then she followed that up by immediately saying that apparently it is. She understands that fans interpret shows how they see fit. She doesn't find it necessary to invalidate anybody just because she doesn't see it personally. As far as Sanvers goes, that's a whole different story. Their storyline is obviously coming to a close. What kind of rep is that? They hardly get any decent screentime as it is and now they'll be gone. Great rep for wlw huh?

Thalolli: PERSONAL KINKS!?!?!?! Are you kidding me? That's is the most homophobic disgusting piece of trash I've ever read on this site. To call the idea of people wanting a certain f/f relationship a "personal kink" is despicable. Please keep your homophobia to yourself.

And again, THIS ISN'T ABOUT A SHIP! At this point I can repeat myself over and over again but y'all will just never get it. These actors do have a job to do, and that's to portray their character. They aren't meant to be out there publicly invalidating fake relationships. All that does is create unrest in communities and cause hurt.

Supercorp was never going to be given the light of day. Shippers know this, non-shippers know this. So what was the point of doing what they did? They did it to be mean to SC shippers and by extension mocked fellow lgbt viewers.

Why do you guys think it is that he feels shitty about himself? THINK!! If he truly felt he did no wrong then he shouldn't feel bad. But he realizes that he ACCIDENTALLY hurt fans. As a KNOWN LGBT rights activist, he understands how his actions hurt others, he gets it, but you guys don't. His second apology speaks volumes. Read that one if you haven't already. He sees the repercussions of his actions and has given a heartfelt apology. I've accepted his apology. Others have too. But that will never erase the fact that what was meant to be a joke turned into something all together hurtful.

Actually it has become very clear and simple. Others and I have said various things which summed together, definitively demonstrates why it is not an attack on sexuality in what should be a logically infallible way. I used to self victimise a lot too, thinking everything is an attack on a group I belong to. Sometimes obviously such worries are well warranted, but in this case frankly there is no way you can make this into homophobia.

This was never the case of homophobia. This was a case of invalidating a large portion of their viewer audience. This was a case of mocking and dismissing a segment of the fandom. For a show that prides itself on being LGBT positive, this was absolutely insensitive

Wait so ships have to be validated now? The writers and cast needs not worry about fan interpretations of their work. Perhaps I firmly believe J'onn should hook up with Barry and Martin Stein while we're at it. Maybe I think there is a serious romantic spark between Metallo and Lilian Luthor. Maybe I think Oliver should date his arrows. Nothing wrong with thinking any of these, but naturally I cannot demand others to align their view with me or expect a cast member to declare my notions to be true. Should the cast pay attention to me? Should they validate or encourage me? I wouldn't if I was the cast.

Jeremy stated a fact. Within the universe of Supergirl the show, Kara and Lena are just friends. What is wrong? I'm in luck the legions of fans of say Star Wars don't have the SuperCorp mentality, else when Daisy Ridley said Jyn and Rey have no relation there'd be a riot too. I think fans of other franchises at least understands to keep fan-fiction to fan-fiction. This is the first time I've seen a community so boldly aggressive they think their obviously non-canon interpretation should not only be respected by other shippers but the people involved with the show themselves.