The State of the Supergirl Fandom

Everyone, this is hard, this is life. These are hard level topics and people have their life dedicated to some of these topics. I appreciate the course we are starting to take. We are listening. We are presenting sides. And we are comprehending. I am not asking everyone to agree, but compassion, understanding and accepting that an opinion against yours is not an attack against you is pretty priceless. Thank you!

Hope, Help and Compassion for all that's our girl's motto right if fans thought about that before they hit send I think that would go a long way. It's so easy to let our emotions get in the way of good judgment especially with the relative anonymity of the internet. I'll admit to clicking send a few times when I shouldn't have and thankfully stopping myself more times than I care to count. No easy answers but positive discussion is a wonderful thing.

I do a daily devotional, and today's prayer subject was "For harmony in my community." It seems very apt to this whole discussion.

First things first. In an earlier post (since deleted) I said that some members of the fandom were delusional. That comment was referring to those who harass or seek to disrupt shows etc, but that meaning was not made clear and Littlestar64 properly called me out on it. So I do apologize for that. There is no one on this site who is delusional.

I'm not on twitter and do not participate on other social media platforms either, so much of what I hear about or see is through this site or by scrolling through Melissa or Chris' Instagram accounts. In both cases the comments are overwhelmingly positive, or at the least innocuous. There are a few comments on Melissa's site that are vulgar or downright obscene. But it is a small number, so I suspect those who claim that a few bad apples spoil the barrel are correct. From what I have seen, the number of people who dislike Mon-el are far outnumbered by those who like him.

But to those who do dislike Mon-el, I am really puzzled by your reaction. Many of the comments in this discussion have mentioned slave-holding, abusive relationships, and even misogyny. What I find troubling is this emphasis on what Mon-el was, rather than on what he is becoming. His arc this season was redemptive. He has developed from a spoiled brat, essentially, into a person who by the end of the season was willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good. I find that a very compelling story and I think it is really quite sad that some focus on his character at the beginning of the season and dismiss who he had become by the end. This development, by the way, was inspired by Supergirl herself and to me encapsulates a lot of what the show is about. He is on a journey, and I really encourage people to reassess Mon-el as a redeemed character who I anticipate will become even more so in the next season.

I do a daily devotional, and today's prayer subject was "For harmony in my community." It seems very apt to this whole discussion.

First things first. In an earlier post (since deleted) I said that some members of the fandom were delusional. That comment was referring to those who harass or seek to disrupt shows etc, but that meaning was not made clear and Littlestar64 properly called me out on it. So I do apologize for that. There is no one on this site who is delusional.

I'm not on twitter and do not participate on other social media platforms either, so much of what I hear about or see is through this site or by scrolling through Melissa or Chris' Instagram accounts. In both cases the comments are overwhelmingly positive, or at the least innocuous. There are a few comments on Melissa's site that are vulgar or downright obscene. But it is a small number, so I suspect those who claim that a few bad apples spoil the barrel are correct. From what I have seen, the number of people who dislike Mon-el are far outnumbered by those who like him.

But to those who do dislike Mon-el, I am really puzzled by your reaction. Many of the comments in this discussion have mentioned slave-holding, abusive relationships, and even misogyny. What I find troubling is this emphasis on what Mon-el was, rather than on what he is becoming. His arc this season was redemptive. He has developed from a spoiled brat, essentially, into a person who by the end of the season was willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good. I find that a very compelling story and I think it is really quite sad that some focus on his character at the beginning of the season and dismiss who he had become by the end. This development, by the way, was inspired by Supergirl herself and to me encapsulates a lot of what the show is about. He is on a journey, and I really encourage people to reassess Mon-el as a redeemed character who I anticipate will become even more so in the next season.

That is my hope as well SB....

Thank you for reminding us that as fans we have responsibilities to behave respectfully and not engage in potentially inflammatory rhetoric. As much as I enjoy SG and the cast, I need to keep in mind this is a TV show that is meant to entertain and even to highlight some concerns confronting our society. This follows a long tradition of the Star Trek serieses and the modern BSG, among others.

There are narratives I like in SG and others I am not particularly enamored of. I try to keep the controversial feelings to myself. So thank you, again for the reminder.

Argo

I do a daily devotional, and today's prayer subject was "For harmony in my community." It seems very apt to this whole discussion.

First things first. In an earlier post (since deleted) I said that some members of the fandom were delusional. That comment was referring to those who harass or seek to disrupt shows etc, but that meaning was not made clear and Littlestar64 properly called me out on it. So I do apologize for that. There is no one on this site who is delusional.

I'm not on twitter and do not participate on other social media platforms either, so much of what I hear about or see is through this site or by scrolling through Melissa or Chris' Instagram accounts. In both cases the comments are overwhelmingly positive, or at the least innocuous. There are a few comments on Melissa's site that are vulgar or downright obscene. But it is a small number, so I suspect those who claim that a few bad apples spoil the barrel are correct. From what I have seen, the number of people who dislike Mon-el are far outnumbered by those who like him.

But to those who do dislike Mon-el, I am really puzzled by your reaction. Many of the comments in this discussion have mentioned slave-holding, abusive relationships, and even misogyny. What I find troubling is this emphasis on what Mon-el was, rather than on what he is becoming. His arc this season was redemptive. He has developed from a spoiled brat, essentially, into a person who by the end of the season was willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good. I find that a very compelling story and I think it is really quite sad that some focus on his character at the beginning of the season and dismiss who he had become by the end. This development, by the way, was inspired by Supergirl herself and to me encapsulates a lot of what the show is about. He is on a journey, and I really encourage people to reassess Mon-el as a redeemed character who I anticipate will become even more so in the next season.

SB, your character analysis of Mon-El is slightly flawed actually. I submit he wasnt a spoiled frat boy at all, he was a victim of severe child abuse his entire life. Look how Rhea treated him, he was a living playdoll to her; summoned before her and subjected to her whims (wedding ceremony) and put away back into his cell when she was done with him at gun point. His behavior early on was that of a man that never experienced any sort of freedom at all in his life.

The lyrics from metallica's 'the unforgiven' come to mind when I think of him
New blood joins this earth
and quickly he's subdued
through constant pained disgrace
the young boy learns their rules

with time the child draws in
this whipping boy done wrong
deprived of all his thoughts
the young man struggles on and on
he's doomed

all of his behavior is a direct result of this terror he lived. Its why when Kara agreed to fight Rhea in single combat he was terrified, not because he thought Kara wouldnt win, its because this to him must have been his worst nightmares come to life. the figure of his life long torment was coming for the woman he loved.

It's great to see the fandom on this site coming together to try to spread positivity. But I think we've gotten off topic with the discussion of Mon-El's character.

This thread was meant to discuss our fandom and the negativity surrounding it. I think it'd be best to start a new topic thread for those of you who would like to share your thoughts on Mon-El; I'm sure there are plenty of opinions to be had.

I disagree as mon-el is the central character of the division. to discuss the discord among the fandom the topic of mon-el will surely come up.

What become controversial is in either being placed into a "shipping box" or labeled an "anti" when I express them.

To me, what became controversial is fans taking their anger and frustration out on the cast, crew and others.

Labels only served to further divide the fans and cause unrest within the fandom.

Can we do one thing before proceeding!? Can others please stop saying there's a Supergirl "fandom" problem? Because there's not. Us SUPERGIRL fans are over here doin just... fine. Please leave the Supergirl fandom out of the messes and bickerings.

Please and thanks *goes back to enjoying other fans, views, theories, predictions, Supergirl updates, and all cast members*

I wish I lived there with you......

Love it, If i recall correctly in one of the S1 episodes Cat bought Kara a drink that had pumpkin added to it.

"Spiced Pumpkin, extra foam with a little cinnamon sprinkled on top..." yes....

I didn't see any hate or alarming items in the thread here so I let it go. Folks have continued to be passionate about their opinions but so far the name calling, attacks and snide comments seem to have been respectful. Of course I request that at any point if any of you feel things are getting out of hand to email me right away at the contact page and I will get on it asap.

As for the Mon-El character analysis going on. I don't mind it here. I think that because it is a large source of the division in the fandom, it's ok to talk through. Respectfully of course.

Although I realize his character is a big reason for the hate plaguing the fandom, I thought the thread was meant to focus on the bad behavior of fans, not him.

Mon-El is a very touchy subject here. There are some very passionate opinions surrounding him and I didn't want to see the discussion around the toxicity of our fandom and how to change it turn into an internet fight over him. That was my only concern.

thing is Mon-El isnt the real problem, he is simply the the current target because he happens to be in the way of an agenda campaigned by the supercorp fandom. Anyone in the way of that agenda gets attacked. I point to Jack Spheer played by Rahul Kohli as evidence who expressed his distaste for some of those fans because he received enough hate during his 1 episode stint to make a public statement.

just want to point out, and I know it's easy to forget to make the distinction, it's not the whole Supercorp group. There are actually many that are just as upset as everyone else.

I did say 'some of those fans'.

people can vote down my reply all they want, thats ok I dont mind being the unpopular opinion in the room. I will be the voice for those that fear a backlash.

thing is Mon-El isnt the real problem, he is simply the the current target because he happens to be in the way of an agenda campaigned by the supercorp fandom. Anyone in the way of that agenda gets attacked. I point to Jack Spheer played by Rahul Kohli as evidence who expressed his distaste for some of those fans because he received enough hate during his 1 episode stint to make a public statement.

I've been seeing this a lot lately, talk of an agenda. What agenda? I don't understand what people are considering their "agenda" to be?

For Lena and Kara to be a relationship on screen so they can have their ship

No, no, and no again. That is NOT true. I am a proud karolsen fan, and the reason I hate mon el has nothing to do with ships. Many others will tell you the same thing. This is homophobic BS that karamel shippers toss around to discredit antis.

no no no, you will not put words in my mouth, that is uncalled for. My sister is gay, my best friend is gay. I proudly walked in the march for pride so DO NOT come at me with that. keep it civilzed plz as I have not yet insulted or insinuated anything about you.

I would honestly hope you consider deleting this post as it is very offensive and disrespectful to me.

thing is Mon-El isnt the real problem, he is simply the the current target because he happens to be in the way of an agenda campaigned by the supercorp fandom. Anyone in the way of that agenda gets attacked. I point to Jack Spheer played by Rahul Kohli as evidence who expressed his distaste for some of those fans because he received enough hate during his 1 episode stint to make a public statement.

I've been seeing this a lot lately, talk of an agenda. What agenda? I don't understand what people are considering their "agenda" to be?

For Lena and Kara to be a relationship on screen so they can have their ship

Well, I can say that there are 100s upon 100s of posts like this one....

https://twitter.com/luthorvause/status/886317678041935873 (language)

Most of the #Supercorp people tweeting that I have come across, and there have been 100s have this type of conversation going on in their tweets.

People can make of that what they wish...it is no where near the only one, just simply the most recent.

thing is Mon-El isnt the real problem, he is simply the the current target because he happens to be in the way of an agenda campaigned by the supercorp fandom. Anyone in the way of that agenda gets attacked. I point to Jack Spheer played by Rahul Kohli as evidence who expressed his distaste for some of those fans because he received enough hate during his 1 episode stint to make a public statement.

I've been seeing this a lot lately, talk of an agenda. What agenda? I don't understand what people are considering their "agenda" to be?

For Lena and Kara to be a relationship on screen so they can have their ship

No, no, and no again. That is NOT true. I am a proud karolsen fan, and the reason I hate mon el has nothing to do with ships. Many others will tell you the same thing. This is homophobic BS that karamel shippers toss around to discredit antis.

Can we do one thing before proceeding!? Can others please stop saying there's a Supergirl "fandom" problem? Because there's not. Us SUPERGIRL fans are over here doin just... fine. Please leave the Supergirl fandom out of the messes and bickerings.

Please and thanks *goes back to enjoying other fans, views, theories, predictions, Supergirl updates, and all cast members*

I wish I lived there with you......

Oh there's AN issue...do not get me wrong. But peeps need to stop bringing in us Supergirl fans into all this shipper warfare crap. I, and many others, are getting annoyed that people keep saying the SUPERGIRL fandom has a problem. No...WE don't... SHIPPERS do. There's THE Supergirl fandom and then there's...

Sanvers
Supercorp
Karmel

Every overly heated, demeening, divisive debate involves these groups in one way or another.

Let's take a look:

When it was announced that Flo was NOT a recurring character for Season 3, attacks were slung everywhere that people, writers, exec prod were homophobic, or were simply gay baiting by writing Alex gay, or "buryng your gays," etc etc and that they were no longer watching such a show.

There's the literal hate for Mon-El by a vast amount of Supercorp fans. Aside from that, are the highly sexual or simply vile and/or foul mouthed laced tweets I've seen daily from Supercorp fans. Note... I said vast...NOT all.

And I have seen Karmel fans attack. In MUCH less numbers, mind you, and generally when having to defend themselves.

Amongst those groups lay 99% of the problems. From those groups come most of the hate slung comments--whether directed to other fans, the writers, the actors/actresses, or the show runners.

Yes... There are NON-shippers who don't like characters. That's how it is with EVERY show, book, movie, podcast. Ha... Max Lord wasn't everyone's fav last year. This year it's Mon-El. However, the contempt for Max didn't come CLOSE to the comments made this year about a "controversial" character.

The vile comments, the hate spew towards characters is coming from SHIPPERS not the Fandom.

Chyler once said, after being told Alex was going to be gay, the execs warned her she needed to prepare herself for an influx of fans. Where were those fans last season? Dare I say NOT Supergirl fans... SANVER fans.

I wonder what would happen if Katie McGrath left the show or was... Killed off... Or... Had never been cast? Hmmmm..... Just fyi... I LOVE Katie. I LOVE Lena and what she's done for the dynamics of the show. But my gracious... So... much... drama outside of the show. If Katie left, would, too, the drama?

Yes, shippers are passionate. Passion is FANTASTIC for a show. Us non-shippers are passionate. But please... Stop lumping the Supergirl Fandom as part of the various Ship Fandom Warfares.

Can we do one thing before proceeding!? Can others please stop saying there's a Supergirl "fandom" problem? Because there's not. Us SUPERGIRL fans are over here doin just... fine. Please leave the Supergirl fandom out of the messes and bickerings.

Please and thanks *goes back to enjoying other fans, views, theories, predictions, Supergirl updates, and all cast members*

I wish I lived there with you......

Oh there's AN issue...do not get me wrong. But peeps need to stop bringing in us Supergirl fans into all this shipper warfare crap. I, and many others, are getting annoyed that people keep saying the SUPERGIRL fandom has a problem. No...WE don't... SHIPPERS do. There's THE Supergirl fandom and then there's...

Sanvers
Supercorp
Karmel

Every overly heated, demeening, divisive debate involves these groups in one way or another.

Let's take a look:

When it was announced that Flo was NOT a recurring character for Season 3, attacks were slung everywhere that people, writers, exec prod were homophobic, or were simply gay baiting by writing Alex gay, or "buryng your gays," etc etc and that they were no longer watching such a show.

There's the literal hate for Mon-El by a vast amount of Supercorp fans. Aside from that, are the highly sexual or simply vile and/or foul mouthed laced tweets I've seen daily from Supercorp fans. Note... I said vast...NOT all.

And I have seen Karmel fans attack. In MUCH less numbers, mind you, and generally when having to defend themselves.

Amongst those groups lay 99% of the problems. From those groups come most of the hate slung comments--whether directed to other fans, the writers, the actors/actresses, or the show runners.

Yes... There are NON-shippers who don't like characters. That's how it is with EVERY show, book, movie, podcast. Ha... Max Lord wasn't everyone's fav last year. This year it's Mon-El. However, the despise for Max didn't come CLOSE to the comments made this year about a "controversial" character.

The vile comments, the hate spew towards characters is coming from SHIPPERS not the Fandom.

Chyler once said, after being told Alex was going to be gay, the execs warned her she needed to prepare herself for an influx of fans. Where were those fans last season? Dare I say NOT Supergirl fans... SANVER fans.

I wonder what would happen if Katie McGrath left the show or was... Killed off... Or... Had never been cast? Hmmmm..... Just fyi... I LOVE Katie. I LOVE Lena and what she's done for the dynamics of the show. But my gracious... So... much... drama outside of the show. If Katie left, would, too, the drama?

Yes, shippers are passionate. Passion is FANTASTIC for a show. Us non-shippers are passionate. But please... Stop lumping the Supergirl Fandom as part of the various Ship Fandom Warfares.

I've find myself referring to them as 'the fandom' as I don't really know what else to call them as they are an unfortunate subset of our entire fandom. Should we start calling them the shipping fandom? Shipdom? Any suggestions?

@evrafter: so apparently 'shipdom' is the perfect word to use. i did a quick search and found that it is often used to refer to shipping fandoms. i guess i must've seen the word before so that's why it came to me.

@Kelly: yikes lol yes let's keep those under wraps

Romulus just won the internet.

@Kelly: Thought this may be of interest to you. In context, he's talking about the "hey everyone, we're dating" scene.

Although I do not use or subscribe to Twitter or really follow all of the "ship" brouhahas currently going on, what it really implies to me is that within the last year, due to whatever reason (be it social, political or otherwise), a vocal, anti-social minority has taken control of public discourse and attempted to railroad any constructive debate. It is a sign of collective mental illness. Plain and simple.

Sadly, this is a reflection of our modern society in which he / she who screams loudest is the one whose (ill-informed, mean-spirited, patently false or downright kooky) ruminations or threats hold sway. Given this, is there really any wonder why more and more actors cancel or skip certain conventions altogether? Until certain segments of society get their acts together and behave, this degrading (and thanks to the Twitterverse, often anonymous) vitriol will continue to be front and centre.

As a small word of advice, for whatever it is worth to our board members, is to skip the run-of-the-mill Twitter Fan Groups (stalkers, actually) and focus on the more positive and like-minded fan communities as it relates to the show - yes, they are fewer and farther between. It'll save you the nagging migraines, needless stress and the need to reach for antacids on a routine basis.

I agree with you Rom, well said.....and the Bolded portion of your post.....I have to say, I have found a very good group of positive thinkers when it comes to Supergirl, and as I have stated before, recently I have finally, for the most part, muted those that I wish to not converse with....It has made my time on twitter much more enjoyable, and my hope is, I have done a good job of that muting so that I can enjoy SDCC 2017 as much as I have the last 2 years....That positive group you speak of however, is much larger than you think....and I believe they will be there front and center at the panel ready to enjoy a great Q&A with Leanne. That is certainly my hope....

In closing, there are more of you out there than you think Rom.....

The "agenda" excuse ignores the fact that people have real, valid reasons for not liking mon el. It's a way to discredit people. I didn't mean to insinuate that you were homophobic, and I'm sorry that it seemed that way. That was not my intention. But saying that people only hate mon el for a f/f shipping agenda is homophobic.

The problem is that while valid reasons exist, some people do things that are completely not valid.

A good example is the trashing of the actor who played Jack just because he was cast. Jack wasn't even on screen and the actor was already sent hate messages. Something that isn't reasonable in any interpretation possible.

Similarly, a lot of things have been used as "reasons" that were flat out untrue (like "Kara and Mon-El are blood related in the comics", something that has never been a thing in any comic incarnation).

People don't need "reasons" to prefer one ship over another, most people just gravitate towards who they find more hot or whose story archetype (ie friends to lovers, childhood sweethearts, enemies falling for each other) they like most. But if some people keep up listing things that are flat out untrue or unreasonable, like sending hate mail to the actor of a character who hasn't even aired yet, that's when other people will grow weary of those supposed reasons.

Not to mention people who call Mon-El abusive, yet see nothing wrong with other characters who do things that are easily comparable if not worse than things Mon-El has done in the relationship.

That's why a lot of the times people like what they like and they then use supposed reasons to explain why nobody else should like them and why the writers should stop writing them.

And that's when it moves away from something being a "reason" to really being more like laundry lists in a pseudo political argument about why your position of "I think this couple is cuter than that couple" is somehow "more right" and more morally righteous. It makes it feel like rather than watching the show and taking it for face value and talking about what you actually see on the show, some people start parsing it for arguments they can use in their laundry lists so they can beat the laundry lists of all the other people.

And that's why people start calling it "agenda". That it seems like some people have a goal, to "defeat" the other couples and have their couple reign supreme and they look for "weapons" in this "fight".

I don't need a laundry list of reasons to dislike a character. Usually there is like one scene at the most, then I start not liking the character, but to me that's it. I just move on to liking the characters I like. And unless the character I started to dislike does something spectacular to make me like them, I pretty much ignore them and don't look for new reasons to not like them.

Very well put! Although I continue to take issue with the whole 'agenda' thing. Because while you make an excellent point of what agenda could possibly mean, it has become evident that within the SG shipping fandom 'agenda' is almost always in reference to the idea that SC shippers are trying to push a f/f couple on us. 'Agenda' holds so much negative connotation and when brought up in discussions/arguments of a f/f ship it becomes grossly homophobic.