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  4. Friday, 14 July 2017
By now, if you are an active member in the Supergirl fandom community, you are undoubtedly aware that there is a lot going on with the Supergirl fan base. Division, attacks, collusion, planning, tweeting, posting, retaliation and so on. There is much that is dragging our fandom's reputation through the mud.

I want to give you a place where you all can come and discuss what is going on but I am going to set up some additional ground rules for this thread to help keep things more friendly because this could get out of hand very fast.

FIRST: There is a very easy tendency to make claims against certain groups that will generalize that group to a particular opinion. Please don't do this. For example: (Olicity "Oliver and Felicity shippers" all hate Laurel). That is clearly not true and no one could ever possibly know that. Its a sweeping generalization that causes those that are Olicity members who don't hate Laurel to become defensive. So please don't use sweeping generalizations in your observations.

SECOND: As much as possible, temper your emotions and take a moment to breathe before responding. We are discussing complex, difficult issues here. Issues that are reflected in the real world and have very real consequences. We are discussing topics here that have deep personal connections to a wide variety of people. You'll never know if your comment, however innocent you may feel it is, actually affects someone on the other side of the screen. So let's take a moment to note that these issues are very VERY complex and require care when brought up in conversation. Breathe and above all, be respectful.

FINALLY: My scrutiny meter on these posts is going to be at a maximum on this. If I feel, for whatever reason, that a post is in anyway hurtful, derogatory or attacking I am just going to delete it. I'll start tossing posts like Kobe hits three pointers (I'm not a basketball guy I have no idea if that analogy makes sense).

ADDITIONAL: (1) when speaking of LGBT+ to not make general assumptions about the community, especially for those not a part of it and (2) users who aren't LGBT+ should avoid speaking on behalf of the community.

Please be respectful and uphold the reputation of this site as a bright spot in the Supergirl fan community.
You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun, Kal. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders.
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Wait so ships have to be validated now? The writers and cast needs not worry about fan interpretations of their work. Perhaps I firmly believe J'onn should hook up with Barry and Martin Stein while we're at it. Maybe I think there is a serious romantic spark between Metallo and Lilian Luthor. Maybe I think Oliver should date his arrows. Nothing wrong with thinking any of these, but naturally I cannot demand others to align their view with me or expect a cast member to declare my notions to be true. Should the cast pay attention to me? Should they validate or encourage me? I wouldn't if I was the cast.

Jeremy stated a fact. Within the universe of Supergirl the show, Kara and Lena are just friends. What is wrong? I'm in luck the legions of fans of say Star Wars don't have the SuperCorp mentality, else when Daisy Ridley said Jyn and Rey have no relation there'd be a riot too. I think fans of other franchises at least understands to keep fan-fiction to fan-fiction. This is the first time I've seen a community so boldly aggressive they think their obviously non-canon interpretation should not only be respected by other shippers but the people involved with the show themselves.
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Actually it has become very clear and simple. Others and I have said various things which summed together, definitively demonstrates why it is not an attack on sexuality in what should be a logically infallible way. I used to self victimise a lot too, thinking everything is an attack on a group I belong to. Sometimes obviously such worries are well warranted, but in this case frankly there is no way you can make this into homophobia.


This was never the case of homophobia. This was a case of invalidating a large portion of their viewer audience. This was a case of mocking and dismissing a segment of the fandom. For a show that prides itself on being LGBT positive, this was absolutely insensitive



Unfortunately, a large portion of the people who are outraged online view it as homophobia. I personally don't. Reiterating that I have no ill will towards the peaceful and respectful Supercorp shippers, I think the only reason the topic came to mind for Jeremy during the "rap" is because of that smaller-yet-extremely-vocal segment of the Supercorp shippers that have been incredibly disrespectful. The people who have sent death threats to Chris, and harassed Rahul for for the ONE episode he did. That's the subgroup that the cast most likely associates with Supercorp most. I also think that's one of the reasons Supercorp continuously keeps coming up in interviews. I'm not Jeremy, so I can't say for sure, but I imagine that's what I imagine he was thinking of it when the joke was made.

Was the joke made in bad taste? Maybe. I didn't find it offensive, but I'm neither a shipper, nor LGBT. And I understand that I will never understand what the people of that community go through. But I've seen posts from LGBT people and Supercorp shippers defending Jeremy against the seemingly disproportionate backlash. But the less respectful minority of Supercorp has definitely left an impression, seemingly negative, with the cast. It's sad, but you can tell by the looks on their faces any time it's brought up.

And now people are harassing Melissa, saying she should apologize. From the video, I don't think she really did anything wrong.

I have absolutely nothing against Supercorp as a concept. I just unfortunately think that the group (again, due to what I believe is a very vocal minority) has a stigma attached to it, now, and even the cast is aware of it. It's a shame that a ship, any ship, has gotten to that point.

In the end, I think it was joke, with no ill will behind it. He realized soon after the impact of it, and tried to apologize. I also think it has been blown WAY out of proportion.
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There were several accusations made today that it WAS an attack on the LGBTQ's sexuality. I'm not going to go scrolling back through on here, because I don't want to remember who it was, but it was said he/she was made to feel "sh*tty" about their own sexuality. And on this very site, he was accused of "homophobic comments."

ALL throughout social media, ESPECIALLY under his apology posts, he was told he was a homophobe. I even posted in this thread one such comment I screen-shoted. if anyone would like to review...scroll on down.

This is the very reason we've all been responding the way we have--defending Jeremy and cast for not being homophobic and that he was not attacking the LGBTQ community. Mel and Chris are now being "counter-attacked" with they are immoral and cheaters.

I would hate to think that now, after realizing he has always been an advocate for the community, now the argument is being changed to "he attacked a shipdom!"
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Apparently Jeremy Jordan posts a couple of messages on his instagram, probably related to this.
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Previously....
"It's not about homophobia, it's about invalidating a part of the fan community"
Now....
"It's not about that, it's about homophobia"

Readying defenses for the loop game
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So in summary, at some point we concurred that what Jeremy said is not homophobic. Just then we also agreed fan's interpretations needs no validation.

So, given that, Jeremy stated Kara and Lena are just friends, granted, with emphasis. Also addressed the past aggression of the SC shippers have left a lasting impact on the cast, and not confined to shipping, they frequently claim that Kara and Lena are in fact romantically attracted, and therefore Jeremy emphasised that in recognised canon, they aren't, as is the right thing to do. No other shipdom has warranted such response because none were that assertive.

So....."the rudest of ways"? He sang a song with a smiling face. It is clear he was in a friendly mood. He stated a fact. If that was the rudest of ways, I dread to think of your reactions to the vast quantities of real homophobia present in reality.
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Granted, I am not able to see this from the view of an LGBT person. So to address what you said about seeing it from their perspective, I admit I cannot accurately reflect how that would feel. However I have been subject to my fair share of prejudice.

I am a asian person living in Australia. I encounter racial abuse almost every day. I've been called worst things imaginable. When I walk outside, it is common for people driving by to shout "get the f*** back to China." I also have autism. Yeah. So, to confidently state, combined with my own experiences and that of people in my life mocked for their race, gender identity or sexuality, I have a grasp of what marginalisation feels like.

So I will simulate myself in such a situation then. Suppose I'm watching Supergirl and there is an acute lack of asian characters. (There is, by the way. Oh and you will never find anyone with autism). Firstly I don't think I will formulate my own fan ideas to adjust to that, but, again granted, that is just me. Say I did.

Pretend enough people feel the same way, pretend enough people stood up for the lack of representation of asians (oh I wish), or people with ASD (oh boy I mega wish). Pretend we start heckling cast and writers and causing a ruckus on social media (now this I don't wish). Our particular interpretation of one aspect of the show is so famous the cast knows it. But obviously it isn't true. So, while summarising the plot, Jeremy takes a few extra seconds to clarify we aren't right. How do I feel?

I know I'm not right. Congrats, a show's plot isn't going my way. Oh goody that is an invalidation of my whole race. I should tell my mum dad and uncle, watch them tremble with outrage? How I feel about my identity shouldn't even be based on the interpreted plot of a TV show. I laugh and carry on probably.
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In reflection my responses are likely also influenced my my animosity towards shipping in general. I don't retract my defense of Jeremy, but, I do feel that if you are offended by this, it is probably built on unimaginable prejudice faced during everyday life, and understandable to a degree.

Outside of this particular debate, I would like to apologise on behalf of every privileged community I belong to, to any marginalised people, for a society so unfair that this kind of controversies could arise.

I just beseech that reason be seen though.
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(As stated) The actions of SC has warranted them being singled out. It wasn't rude. It was a much needed clarification.
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Granted, I am not able to see this from the view of an LGBT person. So to address what you said about seeing it from their perspective, I admit I cannot accurately reflect how that would feel. However I have been subject to my fair share of prejudice.

I am a asian person living in Australia. I encounter racial abuse almost every day. I've been called worst things imaginable. When I walk outside, it is common for people driving by to shout "get the f*** back to China." I also have autism. Yeah. So, to confidently state, combined with my own experiences and that of people in my life mocked for their race, gender identity or sexuality, I have a grasp of what marginalisation feels like.

So I will simulate myself in such a situation then. Suppose I'm watching Supergirl and there is an acute lack of asian characters. (There is, by the way. Oh and you will never find anyone with autism). Firstly I don't think I will formulate my own fan ideas to adjust to that, but, again granted, that is just me. Say I did.

Pretend enough people feel the same way, pretend enough people stood up for the lack of representation of asians (oh I wish), or people with ASD (oh boy I mega wish). Pretend we start heckling cast and writers and causing a ruckus on social media (now this I don't wish). Our particular interpretation of one aspect of the show is so famous the cast knows it. But obviously it isn't true. So, while summarising the plot, Jeremy takes a few extra seconds to clarify we aren't right. How do I feel?

I know I'm not right. Congrats, a show's plot isn't going my way. Oh goody that is an invalidation of my whole race. I should tell my mum dad and uncle, watch them tremble with outrage? How I feel about my identity shouldn't even be based on the interpreted plot of a TV show. I laugh and carry on probably.


I'm sorry for the prejudices you'v been subjected to, I know from experience that it's an awful feeling. As a bisexual Latina living in America, I've experience prejudice not only for my sexuality but for my race too.

Let's continue with your scenario. Let's make it clear that Jeremy took a few extra seconds to clarify that you aren't right. But those few extra seconds weren't just a simple "these characters aren't asian", no, these few extra seconds were repetitive " they aren't asian! they aren't asian!! THEY AREN'T ASIAN!!!". Would you really find that ok? Was all of that necessary? Were you ever under the guise that they were in fact asian?

How you would react to this situation isn't gonna represent how others would react. The LGBT community suffers from so much hate from every part of the world. And to get this tasteless joke from a show that is supposed to be pro-LGBT is messed up.
"Be wise, be strong and always be true to yourself." - Alura Zor-El to Kara Zor-El
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I am also genuinely sorry for what you face. I hope for the day you are surrounded by the respect you deserve. In response to that just then, my take is, if the character really isn't asian, then he said nothing wrong really.
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If it makes you feel better I'm pretty short too xD
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Liking these last few posts by Fedguy and DraftingDrafter.

I can't say I face any prejudices that you both face. I'm a straight male. I'm off-white (I say that, jokingly, because I'm not exactly white, but I don't know what my heritage is).

Only prejudice I've faced is that I'm short. Like, REALLY short, for a guy. So yeah, I can't say I know what it's like to face racial prejudice, or against sexual orientation. And I can never pretend that I know what you each go through.

But one thing I will say, and it may or may not apply to Jeremy's situation, is this:

Because I don't face those challenges, I sometimes don't realize that something I've said, that has absolutely no ill will behind it, was offensive to somebody. This might be the case with Jeremy. While a LGBT supporter, he is not LGBT, so he may not have realized the impact it would have on that community.

But he made an apology, afterwards. And when I make a mistake like that, I try to do the same.

On the flip side, I think the offended person or people should make an attempt to realize that the comment, whether in this situation or in others like it, may not have had negative intentions behind it. We need to use those opportunities, and instead of being outraged and spewing threats, explain why something may have been offensive to the person involved. And if they apologize, I think we need to do our best to accept that apology.

We're going beyond this situation with Jeremy, at this point, but I just think it was a good example.

When it comes to shipping, I've just never personally understood how some people can take it so very seriously. And I think this might apply to Jeremy's situation, as well. The important part is that he tried to make some sort of amends.

So while people need to try to be more cognizant of what they are saying in the moment, I also think that people need to recognize when something was genuinely said with ill intent, versus when it was said without knowing the extent of the impact it would have.

Regardless, I think everyone here (at least those still online) recognize that the online reaction was extreme, compared to the situation.


Excellent post kdogg87. I feel like all of our opinions and feelings on this situation have sort of boiled down to this: it was a joke of no ill intent that inadvertently offended fans and he apologized for it, The backlash has gotten out of control, but over the past few hours I've seen lots of people on social media trying to douse the flames.
"Be wise, be strong and always be true to yourself." - Alura Zor-El to Kara Zor-El
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Call me a dunderhead. I saw these apologies from Jermey Jordan about an improptue song of last year's summary. As well as, I noted criticism of Melissa for being not sensitive to lesbian feelings. I saw the video and listened to the song and I heard nothing homophobic about about it. They just sang that Kara and Lena are friends.

Am I missing something here? Please feel free to let me know if I am missing something. I will not take offense.

Argo


The problem is not what was said, it's HOW it was said. If Jeremy had said "oh, they're just friends" and moved on, that would have been fine. He's right. But instead he screamed it like five times and the others laughed, and later he proudly said he 'debunked' supercorp and Mel called him brave for it. SC shippers get bashed and harassed daily, and now the cast is ridiculing us too.
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Yeah i did and i and many others still see nothing wrong in what Jeremy did
SC are friends and telling it like it is like TVD cast did with Damon and Bonnie is nothing wrong with that at all

There was no attack at all from Jeremy or any of the cast. They set the record straight about 2 friends on the show. Thats it.

They never addressed Sanvers. Its like SC shippers are Totally forgetting the real LGBT couple on the show. Yet some of the SC fandom still say its an attack at LGBT. That is what makes this whole thing so weird and quite frankly ridiculous from the SC.

Even Katie laughed at that song as well so Why are they only hating on Jeremy and Mel now. The loud small and toxic part of SC fandom is the most obscure thing i witnessed ever in any fandom of any show.


Did you read any of our explanations for why we're upset or are you just gonna turn a blind eye?


It's not what was said, it's how it was said. Jeremy was proud of himself for 'debunking' a ship that's not even canon in the first place, a ship that people support because it has meaning for them, and Mel called that 'brave'. You are a prime example of why that's a problem; lesbian shippers are regularly ridiculed and attacked, and the cast has now joined in on that. I really don't know how else to explain it.
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No arguing any longer, but speaking about an impact of this incident, for sometime I don't think I feel like looking at Melissa or Jeremy's social media anymore because everytime I do I see those angry comments plastered everywhere and it hurts. They don't deserve this and I've no clue how the fandom degraded thus over a year. When I first became a fan I had never seen this coming.
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not only is this horse dead, but we've made burgers and put ketchup on this sucker at this point.


Excuse us for speaking out about an incident that deeply, deeply hurt the LGBT section of the fandom. Jeremy has and he seems genuinely sorry, and I for one accept that apology. That doesn't change the fact that A) It happened, B) It echoes what several of the more nasty fans have said to us, and C) Melissa has not apologized when she was the one who called Jeremy 'brave' for what he did.
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I just saw the video once again. While I may see no harm, that does not dismiss others' position that it was hurtful and insensitive. IMO, this was spur of the moment and not intended to hurt anyone. I hope we all have the grace forgiving their making a mistake by accidentally insulting some groups. So let's forgive, move on, and not subject them recriminations.

Argo
A journey of 1,000 KM, begins with one step.
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It was on Mel's latest Instagram post. Guess someone deleted it But i do see the reply to it there Where its mentioned. This is pretty insane. Thank god it got deleted though


Ok that's good it got deleted. That either means it was reported and removed or the account deleted it themselves. If you (or anyone here) ever sees hate directed at the cast, especially to this degree, please notify us in this thread. The more people we can get to report these accounts, the better.
"Be wise, be strong and always be true to yourself." - Alura Zor-El to Kara Zor-El
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It was on Mel's latest Instagram post. Guess someone deleted it But i do see the reply to it there Where its mentioned. This is pretty insane. Thank god it got deleted though


Ok that's good it got deleted. That either means it was reported and removed or the account deleted it themselves. If you (or anyone here) ever sees hate directed at the cast, especially to this degree, please notify us in this thread. The more people we can get to report these accounts, the better.


If its the one I think it is...the account was found to be in violation.


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