The State of the Supergirl Fandom

I hope this doesn't come off as rude but this really isn't the place for character discussions. I'm sure if one of you started a new topic there would be plenty of people on this site willing to exchange views/opinions with

"But to those who do dislike Mon-el, I am really puzzled by your reaction. Many of the comments in this discussion have mentioned slave-holding, abusive relationships, and even misogyny. What I find troubling is this emphasis on what Mon-el was, rather than on what he is becoming. His arc this season was redemptive. He has developed from a spoiled brat, essentially, into a person who by the end of the season was willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good. I find that a very compelling story and I think it is really quite sad that some focus on his character at the beginning of the season and dismiss who he had become by the end. This development, by the way, was inspired by Supergirl herself and to me encapsulates a lot of what the show is about. He is on a journey, and I really encourage people to reassess Mon-el as a redeemed character who I anticipate will become even more so in the next season."


Not sure if this is the thread for this but - posting it anyway:
I don't disagree with this. My problem with it (and by it I mean the presentation of the Mon-El character) is that all of this - this what he was (slave holding / potentially abusive / misoginistic (yeah - I have no idea how that is spelled and neither does spell check)) is what he was WHILE he was in a romantic relationship with Kara. I wish his redemption arc could have played out with him changing for him (with Kara as a teacher / mentor), because it was the right thing to do, because he learned, or evolved, or whatever. But sticking him as the romantic partner of Kara / Supergirl while this was going on totally changed his dynamic (to the character's detriment IMO). It diminished Kara in the process because of how he treated her and diminished his evolution.

What become controversial is in either being placed into a "shipping box" or labeled an "anti" when I express them.

To me, what became controversial is fans taking their anger and frustration out on the cast, crew and others.

Labels only served to further divide the fans and cause unrest within the fandom.

So here I m dipping my toes into this discussion. Not sure how much it will affect anything but here we go.

I do think the shipping polarizes the fandom. For me this takes the form of being pulled into it whether I want to be or not.

I'm not a strict shipper. In season one I was fine with Kara / James, thought Kara / Adam could have been interesting, was not a big fan of Kara / Winn (i like them as platonic friends better), same with Alex / Kara (I know the foster siblings thing has been done on other shows but for this one they were too strong in their sisterhood for me to see it), and thought Kara / Cat was very plausible (a number of shows have done the age difference fine).
I don't mind any gender parings as long as the story works.

For season 2 I had similar thoughts on pairings. But this is when things become difficult.

I think the writers misstepped with the Mon-El character. I liked him at the start and thought the Kara mentorship could be interesting and fun. But, they made him too much of a jerk to rush the romance with Kara like they did. If they would have made him less jerky (more of a lazy princeling goofball fish out of water) a romance that fast could have worked. OR (and the one I would have preferred) they could have kept him just how he was (really kind of a jerk) at the start and middle and let him make his redemption dejerkification before they started the romance (maybe pushing it back to the end of season 2 or the start of 3). But IMO they did not pull off doing both - because then while he was being a jerk he was in a relationship with Kara so he was being a jerk to her (his girlfriend) a lot of the time and that was uncomfortable for me to watch.

Now - my point of posting the above was not just to say all of that - I would love to have a discussion with people and say that and talk about it. But right now because of the shipping if I say that I found the Mon-El character uncomfortable then I am immediately put into the supercorp box, or supercat, or karaolsen.
If I don't think it was a good idea to put Kara and Mon-El in a relationship so fast it must be because I want her with someone else. Actually - if I had the creative magic wand I would have taken Kara at her word when she broke up with James to focus on her work and herself and kept her single this season. That could have been really good.

I really like this show and I hope it continues but parts of season 2 made me sad. I hope the writers fix some stuff for season three. I don't think those opinions are all that controversial. What become controversial is in either being placed into a "shipping box" or labeled an "anti" when I express them.

It's great to see the fandom on this site coming together to try to spread positivity. But I think we've gotten off topic with the discussion of Mon-El's character.

This thread was meant to discuss our fandom and the negativity surrounding it. I think it'd be best to start a new topic thread for those of you who would like to share your thoughts on Mon-El; I'm sure there are plenty of opinions to be had.

I disagree as mon-el is the central character of the division. to discuss the discord among the fandom the topic of mon-el will surely come up.

Yes he is the central character of division. But this thread wasn't meant to get into character analysis. It was created as a "place where you all can come and discuss what is going on" in the fandom. Character analysis and fandom behavior should be two separate threads in my opinion.

Quoting Rschick: "SB, your character analysis of Mon-El is slightly flawed actually. I submit he wasnt a spoiled frat boy at all, he was a victim of severe child abuse his entire life. Look how Rhea treated him, he was a living playdoll to her; summoned before her and subjected to her whims (wedding ceremony) and put away back into his cell when she was done with him at gun point. His behavior early on was that of a man that never experienced any sort of freedom at all in his life.

The lyrics from metallica's 'the unforgiven' come to mind when I think of him
New blood joins this earth
and quickly he's subdued
through constant pained disgrace
the young boy learns their rules

with time the child draws in
this whipping boy done wrong
deprived of all his thoughts
the young man struggles on and on
he's doomed

all of his behavior is a direct result of this terror he lived. Its why when Kara agreed to fight Rhea in single combat he was terrified, not because he thought Kara wouldnt win, its because this to him must have been his worst nightmares come to life. the figure of his life long torment was coming for the woman he loved."

That is a very insightful analysis which I had not considered. Thanks for sharing.

It's great to see the fandom on this site coming together to try to spread positivity. But I think we've gotten off topic with the discussion of Mon-El's character.

This thread was meant to discuss our fandom and the negativity surrounding it. I think it'd be best to start a new topic thread for those of you who would like to share your thoughts on Mon-El; I'm sure there are plenty of opinions to be had.

I disagree as mon-el is the central character of the division. to discuss the discord among the fandom the topic of mon-el will surely come up.

It's great to see the fandom on this site coming together to try to spread positivity. But I think we've gotten off topic with the discussion of Mon-El's character.

This thread was meant to discuss our fandom and the negativity surrounding it. I think it'd be best to start a new topic thread for those of you who would like to share your thoughts on Mon-El; I'm sure there are plenty of opinions to be had.

I do a daily devotional, and today's prayer subject was "For harmony in my community." It seems very apt to this whole discussion.

First things first. In an earlier post (since deleted) I said that some members of the fandom were delusional. That comment was referring to those who harass or seek to disrupt shows etc, but that meaning was not made clear and Littlestar64 properly called me out on it. So I do apologize for that. There is no one on this site who is delusional.

I'm not on twitter and do not participate on other social media platforms either, so much of what I hear about or see is through this site or by scrolling through Melissa or Chris' Instagram accounts. In both cases the comments are overwhelmingly positive, or at the least innocuous. There are a few comments on Melissa's site that are vulgar or downright obscene. But it is a small number, so I suspect those who claim that a few bad apples spoil the barrel are correct. From what I have seen, the number of people who dislike Mon-el are far outnumbered by those who like him.

But to those who do dislike Mon-el, I am really puzzled by your reaction. Many of the comments in this discussion have mentioned slave-holding, abusive relationships, and even misogyny. What I find troubling is this emphasis on what Mon-el was, rather than on what he is becoming. His arc this season was redemptive. He has developed from a spoiled brat, essentially, into a person who by the end of the season was willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good. I find that a very compelling story and I think it is really quite sad that some focus on his character at the beginning of the season and dismiss who he had become by the end. This development, by the way, was inspired by Supergirl herself and to me encapsulates a lot of what the show is about. He is on a journey, and I really encourage people to reassess Mon-el as a redeemed character who I anticipate will become even more so in the next season.

SB, your character analysis of Mon-El is slightly flawed actually. I submit he wasnt a spoiled frat boy at all, he was a victim of severe child abuse his entire life. Look how Rhea treated him, he was a living playdoll to her; summoned before her and subjected to her whims (wedding ceremony) and put away back into his cell when she was done with him at gun point. His behavior early on was that of a man that never experienced any sort of freedom at all in his life.

The lyrics from metallica's 'the unforgiven' come to mind when I think of him
New blood joins this earth
and quickly he's subdued
through constant pained disgrace
the young boy learns their rules

with time the child draws in
this whipping boy done wrong
deprived of all his thoughts
the young man struggles on and on
he's doomed

all of his behavior is a direct result of this terror he lived. Its why when Kara agreed to fight Rhea in single combat he was terrified, not because he thought Kara wouldnt win, its because this to him must have been his worst nightmares come to life. the figure of his life long torment was coming for the woman he loved.

Thank you for reminding us that as fans we have responsibilities to behave respectfully and not engage in potentially inflammatory rhetoric. As much as I enjoy SG and the cast, I need to keep in mind this is a TV show that is meant to entertain and even to highlight some concerns confronting our society. This follows a long tradition of the Star Trek serieses and the modern BSG, among others.

There are narratives I like in SG and others I am not particularly enamored of. I try to keep the controversial feelings to myself. So thank you, again for the reminder.

Argo

I do a daily devotional, and today's prayer subject was "For harmony in my community." It seems very apt to this whole discussion.

First things first. In an earlier post (since deleted) I said that some members of the fandom were delusional. That comment was referring to those who harass or seek to disrupt shows etc, but that meaning was not made clear and Littlestar64 properly called me out on it. So I do apologize for that. There is no one on this site who is delusional.

I'm not on twitter and do not participate on other social media platforms either, so much of what I hear about or see is through this site or by scrolling through Melissa or Chris' Instagram accounts. In both cases the comments are overwhelmingly positive, or at the least innocuous. There are a few comments on Melissa's site that are vulgar or downright obscene. But it is a small number, so I suspect those who claim that a few bad apples spoil the barrel are correct. From what I have seen, the number of people who dislike Mon-el are far outnumbered by those who like him.

But to those who do dislike Mon-el, I am really puzzled by your reaction. Many of the comments in this discussion have mentioned slave-holding, abusive relationships, and even misogyny. What I find troubling is this emphasis on what Mon-el was, rather than on what he is becoming. His arc this season was redemptive. He has developed from a spoiled brat, essentially, into a person who by the end of the season was willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good. I find that a very compelling story and I think it is really quite sad that some focus on his character at the beginning of the season and dismiss who he had become by the end. This development, by the way, was inspired by Supergirl herself and to me encapsulates a lot of what the show is about. He is on a journey, and I really encourage people to reassess Mon-el as a redeemed character who I anticipate will become even more so in the next season.

That is my hope as well SB....

I do a daily devotional, and today's prayer subject was "For harmony in my community." It seems very apt to this whole discussion.

First things first. In an earlier post (since deleted) I said that some members of the fandom were delusional. That comment was referring to those who harass or seek to disrupt shows etc, but that meaning was not made clear and Littlestar64 properly called me out on it. So I do apologize for that. There is no one on this site who is delusional.

I'm not on twitter and do not participate on other social media platforms either, so much of what I hear about or see is through this site or by scrolling through Melissa or Chris' Instagram accounts. In both cases the comments are overwhelmingly positive, or at the least innocuous. There are a few comments on Melissa's site that are vulgar or downright obscene. But it is a small number, so I suspect those who claim that a few bad apples spoil the barrel are correct. From what I have seen, the number of people who dislike Mon-el are far outnumbered by those who like him.

But to those who do dislike Mon-el, I am really puzzled by your reaction. Many of the comments in this discussion have mentioned slave-holding, abusive relationships, and even misogyny. What I find troubling is this emphasis on what Mon-el was, rather than on what he is becoming. His arc this season was redemptive. He has developed from a spoiled brat, essentially, into a person who by the end of the season was willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good. I find that a very compelling story and I think it is really quite sad that some focus on his character at the beginning of the season and dismiss who he had become by the end. This development, by the way, was inspired by Supergirl herself and to me encapsulates a lot of what the show is about. He is on a journey, and I really encourage people to reassess Mon-el as a redeemed character who I anticipate will become even more so in the next season.

I have read them they are good rules. But i am honestly truthful. I have never seen Mon-El or Karamels filling official SupergirlCW Twitter or Supergirlstaff Twitter account with replies of huge amount of toxic hate some of the SC fandom does.

All i see is appreciation from them there and them defending their faves from some of the SC fandom

But if you truly have seen the opposite. Be my guest show it here that they have done that. Because when i look there i honestly do not see it.

I can not see how anyone from SC Fandom can say Mon-El or karamels are hateful. I mean Where is it?

The prove is crystal clear to everyone to see its all some from the SC fandom doing the hating and acting immature and toxic.

It is from them writers gets harrassed
It is from them Chris is attacked Daily and got chased off Twitter
It was from them Jeremy got attacked
It was from them Smith got attacked
It was from them Leanne got attacked
It was from them Rahul Kohli got attacked

Just go to any new Tweet the official SupergirlCW Twitter posts. Or Supergirlstaff and writers. Its full of posts with hate for Mon-El and karamel. I see no Mon-El fans or karamel shippers write hate against sanvers or Lena/Katie there.
All they do is defend their favorites against the vile hate from SC fandom.

OH MY GOSH! You really didn't read all of what was said in this topic thread did you? We've gone over all of this already. An ample amount of examples of some Karamels being awful were provided not only by myself but by others even including the Admin, but you somehow overlooked all of it. Why is that?

And of course once again here you are making generalizations of the entire SC fandom. Did you not read the rules Admin provided for us to follow in this thread either?

It's possible that karamels are more likely to be attacked because their ship is cannon. It actually happened on the show, so it's harder to ignore than Supercorp which isn't. I haven't researched this, so I could be wrong, but I think cannon shippers are less likely to lash-out at other ships because they got what they wanted.

Also Mon-El is seen by many as the Scrappy so many feel that he "doesn't deserve her"

That being said shipping wars are stupid. It's not like you can win, and attacking others within the fandom only makes the fandom look bad.

I hate to bring in more problems, but I think it requires attention. A fan on twitter has essentially stalked Melissa and Chris and found out where they live in Vancouver. This is a whole other level of bad behavior and I have no idea how to approach this. People have called out the person on twitter (even Ken, a well-known paparazzo among the fandom, has expressed his distaste for this person's actions).

Tweet 1
Tweet 2

Any ideas on how to approach this sort of behavior? People have called them out already, should we leave it at that?

this is too far.

I would step away from it as it might actually get into legalities.

If there is anything to this, it will be taken care of and whatever measures are needed to take care of it will be taken. This happens a lot, and it is something that they deal with on a daily basis. The people replying to those tweets are only giving them what they want.......attention.

I can not see how anyone from SC Fandom can say Mon-El or karamels are hateful. I mean Where is it?

The prove is crystal clear to everyone to see its all some from the SC fandom doing the hating and acting immature and toxic.

It is from them writers gets harrassed
It is from them Chris is attacked Daily and got chased off Twitter
It was from them Jeremy got attacked
It was from them Smith got attacked
It was from them Leanne got attacked
It was from them Rahul Kohli got attacked

Just go to any new Tweet the official SupergirlCW Twitter posts. Or Supergirlstaff and writers. Its full of posts with hate for Mon-El and karamel. I see no Mon-El fans or karamel shippers write hate against sanvers or Lena/Katie there.
All they do is defend their favorites against the vile hate from SC fandom.

OH MY GOSH! You really didn't read all of what was said in this topic thread did you? We've gone over all of this already. An ample amount of examples of some Karamels being awful were provided not only by myself but by others even including the Admin, but you somehow overlooked all of it. Why is that?

And of course once again here you are making generalizations of the entire SC fandom. Did you not read the rules Admin provided for us to follow in this thread either?

I hate to bring in more problems, but I think it requires attention. A fan on twitter has essentially stalked Melissa and Chris and found out where they live in Vancouver. This is a whole other level of bad behavior and I have no idea how to approach this. People have called out the person on twitter (even Ken, a well-known paparazzo among the fandom, has expressed his distaste for this person's actions).

Tweet 1
Tweet 2

Any ideas on how to approach this sort of behavior? People have called them out already, should we leave it at that?

this is too far.

I would step away from it as it might actually get into legalities.

Horrid. But the actors can probably take care of themselves. If they feel bothered I'm sure there are numerous legal actions they can take.

I hate to bring in more problems, but I think it requires attention. A fan on twitter has essentially stalked Melissa and Chris and found out where they live in Vancouver. This is a whole other level of bad behavior and I have no idea how to approach this. People have called out the person on twitter (even Ken, a well-known paparazzo among the fandom, has expressed his distaste for this person's actions).

Tweet 1
Tweet 2

Any ideas on how to approach this sort of behavior? People have called them out already, should we leave it at that?

this is too far.

I would step away from it as it might actually get into legalities.

I hate to bring in more problems, but I think it requires attention. A fan on twitter has essentially stalked Melissa and Chris and found out where they live in Vancouver. This is a whole other level of bad behavior and I have no idea how to approach this. People have called out the person on twitter (even Ken, a well-known paparazzo among the fandom, has expressed his distaste for this person's actions).

Tweet 1
Tweet 2

Any ideas on how to approach this sort of behavior? People have called them out already, should we leave it at that?

Everyone, this is hard, this is life. These are hard level topics and people have their life dedicated to some of these topics. I appreciate the course we are starting to take. We are listening. We are presenting sides. And we are comprehending. I am not asking everyone to agree, but compassion, understanding and accepting that an opinion against yours is not an attack against you is pretty priceless. Thank you!

Hope, Help and Compassion for all that's our girl's motto right if fans thought about that before they hit send I think that would go a long way. It's so easy to let our emotions get in the way of good judgment especially with the relative anonymity of the internet. I'll admit to clicking send a few times when I shouldn't have and thankfully stopping myself more times than I care to count. No easy answers but positive discussion is a wonderful thing.

Ahh ships ftw right?