The State of the Supergirl Fandom

Melissa called Jeremy brave? I like her even more now. Truly well done there MB.

See when this type of stuff happens, Jeremy would need to be very brave indeed to do what he did

This type of stuff happens regardless of what's happening in the fandom. Jeremy has gotten a bunch of gross hate just for being an ally and activist for the LGBT community. This hate isn't completely isolated to fandom issues, so let's not act like it is.

There was nothing brave about what was done. Causing unintentional hurt wasn't brave. Fans sending hate in retaliation isn't brave.

seems someone emailed Melissa's team for an apology. Here is the statement from her team

This really shouldn't have been done. This isn't even an official statement from Melissa and her team. This person (whoever they are) just made the situation much worse.

The purpose in showing the screenshots was to go along with our original and long discussion on this matter.

A few here said the angered LGBTQ fans' pain had nothing to do with homophobia, that no one was labeling the cast as such. Clearly, I'm seeing much different.

But, experience shows, all of this nonsense will die down; and people will either stay and watch or move along.

Bring on Season 3. I, for one, am stoked and have a renewed joy for the show and cast. Thanks for that, Comic Con.

Considering a rally call. General mobilisation to a twitter crusade. All the sensible people here, do what we can, bury the SC comments with positivity and show the cast sense prevails, and they have no need to be forced into apology by people who hijacked their sexuality to use it as a weapon in what is in fact a fandom war.

Hello again,

A lot has happened since comic con. First I want to thank you all for keeping it civil while we were traveling. I have said that I was going to keep a close eye on this thread and I have, but traveling and covering the convention hasn't made it easy for me to comment, make suggestions, or moderate. While there are some comments I think that are a little borderline for this thread (considering the heightened scrutiny) I believe you all have comported yourselves with respect and dignity.

So for all of that thank you!

I wanted to take a moment and weigh in on what I think is going on with the fandom and the events of the SDCC song.

I believe that Squishpanda wrote a wonderful timeline of what has happened, but this is my list of the events that happened to get us here (the following is from my point of view only).

1. The strong female characters of Supergirl in season 1 drew crowds of people from all sorts of different creeds, genres, sexual orientations, and nerd cultures.
   
2. As Supergirl’s popularity grew, fandoms and shipping started to take hold, an innocent and common activity for all shows.
   
3. Some groups found something in Supergirl that they could relate to and wanted more of. While the show wasn’t necessarily perfect for them, they were able to add the portion they felt might have been missing through fan fictions and shippings. Again a totally normal and innocent practice.
   
4. A group that rose to some popularity was the Supergirl and Cat shippers. They wanted two strong positive female role models to be together romantically.
   
5. While the creators of the show didn’t want to go that route, bringing a lesbian or LGBTQ relationship to the show would help further balance equal representation on the show.
   
6. Alex was given the lesbian storyline where she would explore her own sexuality. Now let me be clear, I don’t think this was to placate anyone, nor do I think this was to just bring along the story for the heck of it. Greg Berlanti and his shows have a history of trying to be more balanced in their representation of many cultures in America.
   
7. Next, and this part I am a little confused about, James was removed as a romantic interest and Mon-El was brought in.
   
8. So as season 2 started, we had the stage set to maneuver everything to where it is today. Calista Flockhart (Cat Grant) wasn’t able to move to Vancouver. She was essentially removed from the show. This meant that Cat and Supergirl shippers didn’t have that level of entertainment of having Cat on each episode. Now did they go to Supercorp? I have no idea. But I would imagine that with the absence of Cat and the addition of Lena, some shippers were excited at the possibility of those two powerful female role models being together.
   
9. Furthermore, Mon-El replaces James as a romantic interest and Mon-El isn’t the lovable character that James is right out of the gate. While James has all the lovability of Jimmy Olsen’s character behind him, the lesser known Mon-El is given a storyline that writers want to develop. They want to show how Kara inspires the best in everyone. While we saw that with her talking the gunman down without powers in season one, or getting the prisoners of the fight club in Roulette’s gang to turn on her for the greater good, the Mon-El storyline was there to show how Kara could inspire someone who was never a hero to become one of the best heroes of Earth. They also wanted to do that over many episodes rather than just a simple example that lasts one episode.
   
10. So as Supergirl season 2 continues, more characters, new network, and new stories allow for new shipper groups to form. You get Karamel, Supercorp, Sanvers, and so on. Furthermore, folks can be in one, multiple, or all because its all there for fans to be apart of. However, As Mon-El and Kara actually do start to date and the Karamel shippers start to get their ship as canon, there is a sense of validation for them. Alternatively, Supercorp fans are not receiving that validation.
    
11. Now, bad apples begin to ruin everything. Because Karamel and Supergirl share the titular character, a division appears. One group feels validated as their ship becomes canon, and one feels attacked (and is attacked) by some because their ship isn’t canon.
    
12. The bad apples continue, more arguments start. The bad apples (and notice I am not saying all, just the few) of Supercorp start to attack more publicly. This especially heats up when Rahul Kohli is cast as Lena’s heterosexual ex-lover. After being attacked by Karamel bad apples, for so long, that their ship wasn’t canon a casting event happens that some would view invalidates their ship. The bad apples of Supercorp attack Rahul. This the biggest public event to happen to date.
    
13. Now, feeling more invalidated, and having Mon-El win Kara back in the musical, bad apples (after being attacked by Karamel bad apples) take it too far again and go after Chris Wood. Negating Mon-El’s character, for some, is a way to get back at the Karamel folks. (there are legitimate concerns for Mon-El don’t get me wrong, we’ve discussed them at length here). However the attacks on Chris Wood were hateful and specific. They went after his father and his charity. The culmination was in the Heroes for Heroes charity event where an organized effort was created to boo and embarrass Chris and Executive Producer Andrew Kriesberg. This was a charity event! Chris wasn't there but you know he was made aware of what happened.
    
14. I would imagine now, that the bad apples on both sides are going crazy! Karamel bad apples are attacking Katie McGrath in response to Chris being attacked and things are spiraling out of control. I have seen the tweets against Katie and they are just as appalling as the attacks on Chris.
    

I know that was a lot to recap but I think its important to recap how we got here. This is where I want to share my thoughts on the events at SDCC. Having seen the cast and crew together, not in front of cameras, they are very close. I can attest to that personally. They are totally aware of what is going on because some of them were literally experiencing it. Furthermore, they are all friends and they don’t want to hear their friends are getting attacked.

I think that is actually an important piece to what happened at the convention. Jeremy knows that Chris was attacked hard. I talked with Chris at one of the parties I went to and he was super nice. I told him how much I personally loved the Mon-El character and his addition to the show. You can hear in our interview with him how he addresses the “toxic” nature of Kara and Mon-El. He used the words that are often thrown at him in the attacks on Twitter.

So you have Chris probably feeling a bit worried about going to SDCC with the Supergirl cast because he was booed, embarrassed and targeted at the charity event (even though I know he wasn't there). He probably was worried he would be attacked again. So, interview after interview, the cast continues to keep up their positive attitude and try and have fun. Finally in song, Jeremy sees a moment to comment on the events of season 2 and he throws out the “Lena and Kara are not going to get together” and yells “they’re just friends”. Consciously or subconsciously in my opinion, Jeremy was standing up for his friend Chris. Furthermore that is why Melissa said he was brave during the interview. You can hear Jeremy note that he knows he’ll get backlash from his comments but I think that’s why Melissa said he is brave. I think they were just standing up for their friend after having all the attacks laid against Chris from the end of season 2.

I personally don’t think that Jeremy was saying or singing what he was to negate the LGBTQ community but rather to aim at the bad apples of the Supercorp shippers. Was it right? I don’t think so, as we’ve seen the backlash be way more than what he thought it would be. There are news articles about it, attacks on almost all the cast members now and people calling for Melissa to issue an apology. Ultimately, I think Jeremy, in the heat of song, used a large of a weapon to defend his friend but his intentions were never that of homophobia.

The two articles are just two sides of the same coin....both are the extremes within their genre of click bait editorializing....

I'm really ready to just move on and enjoy the 3rd season.

I know that entering this forum post, we are already coming in hot from some other heated conversations that needed to be moderated before. Admittedly, I am spending so much time preparing for SDCC, I haven't moderated as much as I needed to in the last 12 hours. So for that I apologize.

As much as you are all able, I would like to ask that you all try and come in to this thread with a clear head and reset your emotions. I know this isn't easy but I would like to see if we can have a civil discourse on this very difficult topic

What I stated in the prior thread was exactly my feelings on this subject. Maybe it came off harsh, but I will not apologize for that, because it comes from what I have encountered and there is nothing emotional, angry or dramatized....it is exactly what I have seen. I think that for a long time there was a passive/aggressive nature to this situation....and I believe that is the reason it has been allowed to grow as much as it has....the fans that are not a part of an of these fandoms have stayed quiet...that time has passed. If there is a group of people, harassing a person, and 5 of them are heavily in the harassment and the other few are just standing by watching, and validate and justify the harassment either by saying its ok, or pointing their fingers other directions....they are still a part of the harassment in my humble opinion. What I stated was simply what I have seen.

Oh and on the note of the Kevin Smith twitter incident from yesterday, the man went out of his way and responded to a hateful tweet. He was not tagged in the original tweet by the op, so how he found the tweet...who knows. The response he got from angry twitter fans yesterday is all on him. I'm not sure what he expected to happen by responding to hate tweets; he literally put himself in that ridiculous situation.

That being said, I'm not advocating for those initial disgusting tweets, but I am saying that he should have never given them the attention they clearly seek.

Several abuse victims have said that he reminds them of their abuser. You think they're all delusional?

I would not know if that were true or not for them, I don't know them personally as I stated before, if they saw that as abusive, more counseling may be needed for them...again, I don't know their situation i don't know if they have gone through any kind of counseling...they might need to watch what they are watching on TV if that bothered them that much.........I can only go by what I have experienced myself in my internships, and the people I have dealt with through that....

So what you just said is that people who are reminded of their abuse need counseling so that they don't think it's abuse. Is that right?

If what they saw on this series brought back memories of their abuse from something as innocent as this relationship was...yes, they may need some more help, or counseling.

Both sides, all sides, everyone one would seem to be behaving in a way that passionately defends their side. That seems like human nature. But if I had to sum it up this is what I see:

There is a side that feels the character of Mon-El is bad. Bad for Kara, bad influence, and they have gathered evidence to support their argument. I can't argue that. Makes sense. You can question the motives behind thoses determinations. Is it to remove him as an obstacle so Kara can have another love interest? Possibly. There are all sorts of motives. None is wrong.

On the other hand there is a group that likes Mon-El and believes that because his character is romantically tied to Kara they have a righteous power to protect him against all others. No one can touch him. James, Lena, Cat or whomever.

Now, both sides have made errors in my opinion. And let me be clear, not all are doing it, it's just some bad apples on the sides.

Here's where I get concerned, it's affecting the actors, showrunners, and crew. And not affecting them in terms of positive change. More like the whole fandom is being painted as bad apples and the fans' access to the actors and crew is being diminished.

Standing up for what you believe in is an important step in being American I believe, however there are ways of doing it right and doing it wrong.

Supergirl in the end is a product, developed by a business and designed to sell advertisements. That's it. It isn't going to cure cancer, it isn't going to change politics, and it isn't going to "fix" the country (if you feel that it needs fixing).

The truth is, Supergirl is left leaning because a market study showed that it wouldn't hurt the overall numbers. Furthermore arguments about "queer-bating" and what not are again all calculated and measured. There isn't a single decision made on any TV show that isn't taking into account the bottom line and that is $$$.

TV shows only affect social change because the advertising companies are willing to buy the ad spots. When Supergirl came to the CW it's ad costs went up by a huge percentage.

All the letter writing, campaigning and booing at conventions is going to do is push access to the celebrities further away. Even a PR nightmare like the 100 had with the Clexa thing ended up going nowhere because the numbers remained.

I think at this point I am digressing. What I really want more than all of this is to have the polite and well reasoned discourse again that this site is known for. I want us all to remember that we are fans of a show and we don't need to agree on everything but we can still be fans together.

You are right Kelly. I agree with every word. There is nothing abusive or toxic about Mon-El or karamel. Its the SC fandom people that is abusive and toxic. If they really think what they think then they must have a problem with many couples on tv shows. We are talking all shows here and Movies and characters like My name here Starlord, Tony Stark, Bond, jaime from Outlander. Hell i could go on and on here.
We also have evidence of how toxic they are from Leanne The panel speaker at SDCC and known to champion Kara and Mon-El relationship. And she got hate for that from SC fandom. Thats not right.

Rahul Kohli from iZombie who guest starred on SG in s2 said in a video interview that SC fandom are toxic and hooligans.

Yesterday Kevin Smith got the taste from them as well on Twitter.

David disabled the comments on Instagram of a pic with Chris because he is afraid of this toxic side of the fandom is leaving hate upon hate. That is just so much wrong in their behavior. Its vile and toxic

Now i also even believe Katie see it herself as well. Its no accident Melissa posted that Katie took the pic of Chris, Mehcad and David. It was to show Katie likes Chris and i am sure they had an understanding to post this. But instead some of them again showed their toxic side. Its sad to see Katie coming on the show brings such vile people with her. I think this is also the sole reason she is not on any social media. She knows how toxic her fans are.
I just had to say something to side with Kelly on this she is one of the many that also is beginning to see how SC fandom are

Starlord: first and foremost I'm glad you've edited your original post from the last thread about 'straight' couples. I'm guessing you realized how that made you sound, no?

Ahh yes only ONE part of this huge fandom is toxic. This whole fandom is going down in flames it seems. I've already provided a link showing some of the nasty karamel shippers, take a look.

We've all agreed that those people who attacked Rahul are awful. There's no denying it. And I don't think anyone has tried to deny it. But you cannot (as the Admin has said more than once) blame an entire group on the actions of some.

The Kevin Smith situation is a tricky one to discuss. He literally went out of his way to interact with the hate being indirectly tweeted about him. I'm not advocating for those tweets but the man should have never given them any attention. He put himself in a situation where nothing good would come of it.

As for Katie, we can speculate on why she doesn't have social media. But if you really want to know, she has stated in past interviews that she doesn't trust herself to use it as she considers herself to be a notorious drunk texter. She has also stated that she doesn't think people would really care about what she has to say on a personal level. As far as present time, it's highly likely that she'll continue to avoid twitter with how things went down with her brother.

And again you're here making sweeping generalizations on behalf of an entire group solely based on the actions of the few vocal ones within said group. Can you please take a look at what you're saying and what everyone else is saying..even Kelly (who you 100% agree with) understands that the actions of the few do not reflect the many.

I want to propose some rules of fandom that I hope all factions can agree on.
1) It's never ever ok to engage in or call for violence of any sort.
2) It's never ok to engage or involve a family member of anyone who works on the show.
3) Personal lives are off limits.
4) Recognize that actors have absolutely no say in the characters they play or the storyline. Harassment will not help your opinion be heard, it will do just the opposite and cause the actors to stop interacting with all fans.
5) Like the actors directors have no say in the storyline.
6) Writers have very little to do with the overall storyline and aren't allowed to change the season arcs.
7) Twitter and other social media sites are not the place to express your opinions to the producers. If you disagree with a character or storyline. Write an actual thoughtful letter to them or the network.

If you are a member of a particular group and see another member of that group violating the above rules you have a responsibility to stand up and let them know what they are doing is wrong. Let then know that thier opinion isn't inherently wrong, and if you do that you agree. But that you disagree with they manor they are expressing it and that you don't appreciate them giving your group a bad reputation as well as making your entire group seem "crazy".

Those are all great 'rules' for fandom conduct. I think most of us here on this site abide by them already, it's the people out their in twitter-land that need to be put in place. I've seen quite a few shippers trying to reign in their crazed fans but most of the time it's to no avail. I think whenever we see hate we should not only call out that person but also put forth some extra love and support to whoever the hate was being directed at.

I'm going to very cautiously dip my toe into this thread. I'm not on twitter only FB and have had to drop out of every group but this one and the shows official group because I just couldn't take the horrible things I was reading. I don't consider myself a shipper of any sort, because of this I won't use shipper names. I don't personally see abuse in Kara/Mon-El's relationship. They both acted childish at times but she gave as good as she got in thier arguments. She almost used Daxamite in a derogatory way several times. If you see abuse in thier arguments I won't try to convince you otherwise. I have never found success in trying to change someone's opinion over the internet, that's hard enough to do in person.

We need to change the perception of Supergirl fans from being the worst. If we don't do that we're going to see more negative effects on the show we all profess to love. Directors are going to decline the opportunity to work on the show after what happened to Kevin Smith. Writers are going to look for jobs on different shows to avoid being harassed. Actors are going to think twice about taking parts after what happened to Rahul Kohli. Katie could have decided she didn't want to be a regular after what happened with her brother and we should consider ourselves lucky she didn't.

I want to propose some rules of fandom that I hope all factions can agree on.
1) It's never ever ok to engage in or call for violence of any sort.
2) It's never ok to engage or involve a family member of anyone who works on the show.
3) Personal lives are off limits.
4) Recognize that actors have absolutely no say in the characters they play or the storyline. Harassment will not help your opinion be heard, it will do just the opposite and cause the actors to stop interacting with all fans.
5) Like the actors directors have no say in the storyline.
6) Writers have very little to do with the overall storyline and aren't allowed to change the season arcs.
7) Twitter and other social media sites are not the place to express your opinions to the producers. If you disagree with a character or storyline. Write an actual thoughtful letter to them or the network.

If you are a member of a particular group and see another member of that group violating the above rules you have a responsibility to stand up and let them know what they are doing is wrong. Let then know that thier opinion isn't inherently wrong, and if you do that you agree. But that you disagree with they manor they are expressing it and that you don't appreciate them giving your group a bad reputation as well as making your entire group seem "crazy".

Thank you Brierrose for "dipping your toe" into the thread, it's not an easy one to get into. I actually really like your rules. I think they make sense and are formed from practicality and common sense. I hope that folks consider them and maybe adopt them in their respective groups!

the majority of the fandom hates the character.

says you. Baseless claims like this are silly to make. the internet fan echo chambers are far smaller than you believe. to believe otherwise would be foolish.

The following was written by a good friend of mine, all credit goes to her.


I lost two Twitter friends yesterday. They both fell victim to a cancer spreading throughout social media, the cancer of the toxic fandom. It’s a vicious affliction that grows worse every day. I’ve seen it drive not only people like my friends, who enjoyed nothing more talking about their favorite shows but also writers, producers and even stars themselves from social media because of nasty and vitriolic posters. My friends found being around such actions were keeping them from having fun and being a part of a show’s online community and in one case drove one from social media altogether.

Make no mistake, I love television. I love talking about television and there is no greater place to do that these days than via social media, primarily Twitter. I have made friends all over the world on this instant medium. I longingly remember the days and was proud to be a part of a fandom of a certain show that banded together on Twitter, took on the Nielsen’s’, and earned our beloved show just one more season, and sat watching my timeline one night, tears in my eyes, as one of the stars of that show helped a young fan raise thousands of dollars for charity in a matter of hours.

While there are many great fandoms out there doing all sorts of wonderful things, sadly, I fear those type of fandom days are endangered by the toxicity prevalent in fandoms of many shows today. Just what makes a toxic fandom? Many things. For one, more and more people are posting without thinking of the consequences of their words. Now more than ever we should pause and look at what we’ve written before hitting send.

Today, there is rarely just a single group of fans any more, talking about their favorite show, debating what they liked and didn’t like with civil discourse. Now days a show’s fans are likely to be divided into warring factions fighting for dominance – this group hates one character, that group hates another, this character or actor’s not getting enough or too much screen time, and the poor writers, actors and producers get caught in the middle of the battles marked with vicious attacks, name calling, and scathing negativity.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being passionate about a show you love, however there is a difference between being passionate and crossing a line into toxicity. More and more are posting without thinking of the consequences of their words, when now more than ever we should pause and look at what we’ve written before hitting send.

It’s fine to tell a writer/producer or show runner you don’t like or care for a storyline or a certain character, what’s toxic is constantly bombarding them with hate filled tweets like, “kill this character” or “I hate this character” EVERY time they’re on line or anytime that character is mentioned in an article about the show. That goes way beyond overkill. Often posts like these cross the line from voicing displeasure to become whining, teeth-gnashing rants that sadly, at times, devolve into nasty bullying, name-calling or personal attacks.

Unfortunately, one of the fallacies of social media is its immediacy, and when a star or executive doesn’t respond to one of thousands of tweets or messages they likely receive daily in a timely fashion or with the answer the fan wants to hear, they’re often greeted with anger or vitriol. That fan may choose to respond like a petulant child because they believe they are entitled to a response. Just because someone is on Twitter does not mean you are entitled to a response or to attack or insult them just because they don’t respond to you. Remember, they don’t have to be there at all, they’re there because they choose to be, often taking the time after a long hard day on set or doing promotion for their show, or taking time away from their families to talk to fans. When they do choose to respond, they deserve to be treated with courtesy and respect.

The writers, producers, directors, and actors on any show on television work extremely long, difficult hours to bring episodes to our television or computer screens. And no matter how long, or how hard they work to bring us the best possible episodes of our favorite shows they will not please everyone with every episode. Many fans often forget that people associated with these shows take time out of their very busy lives, away from their families to come onto social media to talk to them, because like anyone, they enjoy hearing if they’ve done a good job or not.

Toxic fan actions aren’t just limited to those directly involved with a show, I’ve seen it directed at the entertainment media that covers those shows. I’ve had colleagues threatened, and insulted; message board comments filled with hate filled rants and more because they wrote something that dared to be opposite of what that fan may think. This is toxic.

Suddenly, it’s wrong to have an opinion different from a group who believe they are right beyond all discussion. Simply put, they’re right, you’re wrong all the time, because you don’t agree with them or believe as they do. And if you do disagree with them, and god forbid you post it anywhere, that’s when the most toxic of a group will band together with personal attacks and name calling.

Having been on the receiving end of attacks like this on more than one occasion, I completely understand why so many stars, writers and producers are disappearing from social media. Given the scale of the attacks I endured I can’t imagine what they must see every day.

I realize that by writing this I am opening myself up to more attacks. The reality is, that by writing this I hope to shine a light on the cancer of the toxic fandom, groups that I have watched tear apart great fandoms for many shows in recent years.

I know there are many great fans and great fandoms out there. It’s time to cut this cancer from social media and take back fandoms ripped to pieces by a toxic fandom. It’s time to #TakeBackOurFandom.

Love it kudos to your friend. The million dollar question is what to do when someone on social media is doing something we all agree is not ok, such as personally harassing an actor as in what happened to Rahul Kohli. I suggested that there is a responsibility to stand up and tell the person that the way they are expressing their opinion is not ok. Note I said the way they are expressing their opinion is not ok not that thier opinion is wrong or they don't have a right to express it. For most people if you say it that way it's not seen as a personal attack on thier opinion or thier right to be heard and they will stop. For those who don't stop or turn thier attack on the people calling them out on their behavior I suggest no further engagement. @DraftingDrafter suggested that we also show our support for the person being harassed and I wholeheartedly agree. Even if you agree with the opinion of the harasser you can still say something nice and simply by calling out the bad behavior your showing support.

Like most things in life there's not one single simple solution. Why don't we use this thread to brainstorm ideas on ways to respond when we see another fan behaving badly on social media.

Everyone, this is hard, this is life. These are hard level topics and people have their life dedicated to some of these topics. I appreciate the course we are starting to take. We are listening. We are presenting sides. And we are comprehending. I am not asking everyone to agree, but compassion, understanding and accepting that an opinion against yours is not an attack against you is pretty priceless. Thank you!

Hope, Help and Compassion for all that's our girl's motto right if fans thought about that before they hit send I think that would go a long way. It's so easy to let our emotions get in the way of good judgment especially with the relative anonymity of the internet. I'll admit to clicking send a few times when I shouldn't have and thankfully stopping myself more times than I care to count. No easy answers but positive discussion is a wonderful thing.

I do a daily devotional, and today's prayer subject was "For harmony in my community." It seems very apt to this whole discussion.

First things first. In an earlier post (since deleted) I said that some members of the fandom were delusional. That comment was referring to those who harass or seek to disrupt shows etc, but that meaning was not made clear and Littlestar64 properly called me out on it. So I do apologize for that. There is no one on this site who is delusional.

I'm not on twitter and do not participate on other social media platforms either, so much of what I hear about or see is through this site or by scrolling through Melissa or Chris' Instagram accounts. In both cases the comments are overwhelmingly positive, or at the least innocuous. There are a few comments on Melissa's site that are vulgar or downright obscene. But it is a small number, so I suspect those who claim that a few bad apples spoil the barrel are correct. From what I have seen, the number of people who dislike Mon-el are far outnumbered by those who like him.

But to those who do dislike Mon-el, I am really puzzled by your reaction. Many of the comments in this discussion have mentioned slave-holding, abusive relationships, and even misogyny. What I find troubling is this emphasis on what Mon-el was, rather than on what he is becoming. His arc this season was redemptive. He has developed from a spoiled brat, essentially, into a person who by the end of the season was willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good. I find that a very compelling story and I think it is really quite sad that some focus on his character at the beginning of the season and dismiss who he had become by the end. This development, by the way, was inspired by Supergirl herself and to me encapsulates a lot of what the show is about. He is on a journey, and I really encourage people to reassess Mon-el as a redeemed character who I anticipate will become even more so in the next season.

So here I m dipping my toes into this discussion. Not sure how much it will affect anything but here we go.

I do think the shipping polarizes the fandom. For me this takes the form of being pulled into it whether I want to be or not.

I'm not a strict shipper. In season one I was fine with Kara / James, thought Kara / Adam could have been interesting, was not a big fan of Kara / Winn (i like them as platonic friends better), same with Alex / Kara (I know the foster siblings thing has been done on other shows but for this one they were too strong in their sisterhood for me to see it), and thought Kara / Cat was very plausible (a number of shows have done the age difference fine).
I don't mind any gender parings as long as the story works.

For season 2 I had similar thoughts on pairings. But this is when things become difficult.

I think the writers misstepped with the Mon-El character. I liked him at the start and thought the Kara mentorship could be interesting and fun. But, they made him too much of a jerk to rush the romance with Kara like they did. If they would have made him less jerky (more of a lazy princeling goofball fish out of water) a romance that fast could have worked. OR (and the one I would have preferred) they could have kept him just how he was (really kind of a jerk) at the start and middle and let him make his redemption dejerkification before they started the romance (maybe pushing it back to the end of season 2 or the start of 3). But IMO they did not pull off doing both - because then while he was being a jerk he was in a relationship with Kara so he was being a jerk to her (his girlfriend) a lot of the time and that was uncomfortable for me to watch.

Now - my point of posting the above was not just to say all of that - I would love to have a discussion with people and say that and talk about it. But right now because of the shipping if I say that I found the Mon-El character uncomfortable then I am immediately put into the supercorp box, or supercat, or karaolsen.
If I don't think it was a good idea to put Kara and Mon-El in a relationship so fast it must be because I want her with someone else. Actually - if I had the creative magic wand I would have taken Kara at her word when she broke up with James to focus on her work and herself and kept her single this season. That could have been really good.

I really like this show and I hope it continues but parts of season 2 made me sad. I hope the writers fix some stuff for season three. I don't think those opinions are all that controversial. What become controversial is in either being placed into a "shipping box" or labeled an "anti" when I express them.

Ugh, Pedowitz annoys me, there's been MANY articles detailing how Mon-el is bringing down the show, plus the majority of the fandom hates the character but he's choosing to ignore this for some reason.

Just as I have asked that no one make broad generalizations about fandom groups like Supercorp or Karamel, or communities like the LGBTQ+, I will also ask you not to make broad sweeping statements about the Supergirl fandom as a whole.

As I've said before, there are the folks who are passionate enough about the show and aspects of it to be vocal. There are authors who write articles too (as you said), but I think the proof is in the pudding. I said earlier in this thread that The CW, or any network for that matter isn't going to make changes to their products (and that is was Supergirl is, a product to sell advertisements) without getting the metrics and data to back it up.

We don't work at The CW, Warner Brothers, or DC Comics and because of that no one has access to the giant information gathering algorithms that they do. Supegirl is a business and if Mon-El was truly a deal breaker for the show, then they wouldn't have brought him back. No one is going to have more access to that kind of information than Pedowitz, so that said I think the majority of silent fans, (which I have to assume out weighs vocal fans), enjoy Mon-El's character and that is why he's back.

I agree with some parts of what you said. We shouldn't make broad judgements about the fandom. I do think, however, like you said there are large nonvocal groups that like Monel there were also be an equal group of nonvocal fans that don't like him. I think it's probably about 50/50 on who like and doesn't like. That's just my opinion.
I'm not sure I agree about the numbers being high for the Monel character that's why the CW keeps him. Many CW reps have said many times how they love Chris Wood. And to be honest any press is good press so even with people hating Monel it's still getting them publicity. The CW wins either way. Advertisers just want to sell stuff they don't care about how. Just my opinion.

All good points. So good in fact that I think we've hit on a new realization. Whether fans like or dislike Mon-El is irrelevant because in the end, the viewers are there to hate him as well as the viewers are there to love him. If it doesn't hurt advertisement sales, then we all are going to get more Supergirl for many seasons to come. (also this is the 300th comment on this topic) WOW!