The State of the Supergirl Fandom

Can we do one thing before proceeding!? Can others please stop saying there's a Supergirl "fandom" problem? Because there's not. Us SUPERGIRL fans are over here doin just... fine. Please leave the Supergirl fandom out of the messes and bickerings.

Please and thanks *goes back to enjoying other fans, views, theories, predictions, Supergirl updates, and all cast members*

I didn't see any hate or alarming items in the thread here so I let it go. Folks have continued to be passionate about their opinions but so far the name calling, attacks and snide comments seem to have been respectful. Of course I request that at any point if any of you feel things are getting out of hand to email me right away at the contact page and I will get on it asap.

As for the Mon-El character analysis going on. I don't mind it here. I think that because it is a large source of the division in the fandom, it's ok to talk through. Respectfully of course.

Although I realize his character is a big reason for the hate plaguing the fandom, I thought the thread was meant to focus on the bad behavior of fans, not him.

Mon-El is a very touchy subject here. There are some very passionate opinions surrounding him and I didn't want to see the discussion around the toxicity of our fandom and how to change it turn into an internet fight over him. That was my only concern.

thing is Mon-El isnt the real problem, he is simply the the current target because he happens to be in the way of an agenda campaigned by the supercorp fandom. Anyone in the way of that agenda gets attacked. I point to Jack Spheer played by Rahul Kohli as evidence who expressed his distaste for some of those fans because he received enough hate during his 1 episode stint to make a public statement.

just want to point out, and I know it's easy to forget to make the distinction, it's not the whole Supercorp group. There are actually many that are just as upset as everyone else.

I did say 'some of those fans'.

people can vote down my reply all they want, thats ok I dont mind being the unpopular opinion in the room. I will be the voice for those that fear a backlash.

thing is Mon-El isnt the real problem, he is simply the the current target because he happens to be in the way of an agenda campaigned by the supercorp fandom. Anyone in the way of that agenda gets attacked. I point to Jack Spheer played by Rahul Kohli as evidence who expressed his distaste for some of those fans because he received enough hate during his 1 episode stint to make a public statement.

I've been seeing this a lot lately, talk of an agenda. What agenda? I don't understand what people are considering their "agenda" to be?

For Lena and Kara to be a relationship on screen so they can have their ship

No, no, and no again. That is NOT true. I am a proud karolsen fan, and the reason I hate mon el has nothing to do with ships. Many others will tell you the same thing. This is homophobic BS that karamel shippers toss around to discredit antis.

no no no, you will not put words in my mouth, that is uncalled for. My sister is gay, my best friend is gay. I proudly walked in the march for pride so DO NOT come at me with that. keep it civilzed plz as I have not yet insulted or insinuated anything about you.

I would honestly hope you consider deleting this post as it is very offensive and disrespectful to me.

thing is Mon-El isnt the real problem, he is simply the the current target because he happens to be in the way of an agenda campaigned by the supercorp fandom. Anyone in the way of that agenda gets attacked. I point to Jack Spheer played by Rahul Kohli as evidence who expressed his distaste for some of those fans because he received enough hate during his 1 episode stint to make a public statement.

I've been seeing this a lot lately, talk of an agenda. What agenda? I don't understand what people are considering their "agenda" to be?

For Lena and Kara to be a relationship on screen so they can have their ship

Well, I can say that there are 100s upon 100s of posts like this one....

https://twitter.com/luthorvause/status/886317678041935873 (language)

Most of the #Supercorp people tweeting that I have come across, and there have been 100s have this type of conversation going on in their tweets.

People can make of that what they wish...it is no where near the only one, just simply the most recent.

thing is Mon-El isnt the real problem, he is simply the the current target because he happens to be in the way of an agenda campaigned by the supercorp fandom. Anyone in the way of that agenda gets attacked. I point to Jack Spheer played by Rahul Kohli as evidence who expressed his distaste for some of those fans because he received enough hate during his 1 episode stint to make a public statement.

I've been seeing this a lot lately, talk of an agenda. What agenda? I don't understand what people are considering their "agenda" to be?

For Lena and Kara to be a relationship on screen so they can have their ship

No, no, and no again. That is NOT true. I am a proud karolsen fan, and the reason I hate mon el has nothing to do with ships. Many others will tell you the same thing. This is homophobic BS that karamel shippers toss around to discredit antis.

Agenda seems to be a hot word that was lead to a bit of a land slide. I made some fast edits there.

Let me weigh in a bit. The tweet Kelly shared illustrates the shipping that is going on. I actually don't have a problem with it. It's like fan fiction.

What gets me concerned is the people, whomever group or non group, that are planning disruptions at comic con, harassing the actors and forcing other fans to have less access because of it.

The other day I saw someone tweet directly at Dean Cain that he should be fired from Supergirl for his political views. Why? He is a good actor and plays his part well. What does his personal life have to do with it.

It's that kind of thing that is worrisome

He is not the reason. The reason is some of the SC fandom. That has been acting extremely immature and selfish and with no regard for people with other opinions than them. They have taken their assults to the writers, actors just because they want to control everything. Its not right. They really need to accept that not all have their opinion and that there is also many that like Mon-El.

Although I realize his character is a big reason for the hate plaguing the fandom, I thought the thread was meant to focus on the bad behavior of fans, not him.

Mon-El is a very touchy subject here. There are some very passionate opinions surrounding him and I didn't want to see the discussion around the toxicity of our fandom and how to change it turn into an internet fight over him. That was my only concern.

Liking mon el is exactly the problem. This is not a simple difference of opinion. This is support for a character who CANONICALLY owned slaves, who sidelines Kara on her own show, who replaced a black man as Kara's love interest and who has treated her very badly. This is not a matter of "I like the Guardian storyline!" "Eh, i thought it was dumb." Those are differences of opinion. This is a matter of real world issues.

Thank you for highlighting the problem. the problem is people that think they are of moral superiority to others and must save everyone else from some fictional character. I can assure you as an adult I dont need to be saved.

and btw Mon-El didnt own slaves. Everyone on daxam not named Queen Rhea was a slave. King Lar Gand disagreed with her and she killed him with impunity.

Agenda seems to be a hot word that was lead to a bit of a land slide. I made some fast edits there.

Let me weigh in a bit. The tweet Kelly shared illustrates the shipping that is going on. I actually don't have a problem with it. It's like fan fiction.

What gets me concerned is the people, whomever group or non group, that are planning disruptions at comic con, harassing the actors and forcing other fans to have less access because of it.

The other day I saw someone tweet directly at Dean Cain that he should be fired from Supergirl for his political views. Why? He is a good actor and plays his part well. What does his personal life have to do with it.

It's that kind of thing that is worrisome

That is my biggest thing as well Eric, that worries me a lot....I posted the tweet with a little um, fear...lol But it was the best example of the constant that I see on Twitter and what is shown to me from tumblr...and some of it, I could not post here.

Can we do one thing before proceeding!? Can others please stop saying there's a Supergirl "fandom" problem? Because there's not. Us SUPERGIRL fans are over here doin just... fine. Please leave the Supergirl fandom out of the messes and bickerings.

Please and thanks *goes back to enjoying other fans, views, theories, predictions, Supergirl updates, and all cast members*

I wish I lived there with you......

Oh there's AN issue...do not get me wrong. But peeps need to stop bringing in us Supergirl fans into all this shipper warfare crap. I, and many others, are getting annoyed that people keep saying the SUPERGIRL fandom has a problem. No...WE don't... SHIPPERS do. There's THE Supergirl fandom and then there's...

Sanvers
Supercorp
Karmel

Every overly heated, demeening, divisive debate involves these groups in one way or another.

Let's take a look:

When it was announced that Flo was NOT a recurring character for Season 3, attacks were slung everywhere that people, writers, exec prod were homophobic, or were simply gay baiting by writing Alex gay, or "buryng your gays," etc etc and that they were no longer watching such a show.

There's the literal hate for Mon-El by a vast amount of Supercorp fans. Aside from that, are the highly sexual or simply vile and/or foul mouthed laced tweets I've seen daily from Supercorp fans. Note... I said vast...NOT all.

And I have seen Karmel fans attack. In MUCH less numbers, mind you, and generally when having to defend themselves.

Amongst those groups lay 99% of the problems. From those groups come most of the hate slung comments--whether directed to other fans, the writers, the actors/actresses, or the show runners.

Yes... There are NON-shippers who don't like characters. That's how it is with EVERY show, book, movie, podcast. Ha... Max Lord wasn't everyone's fav last year. This year it's Mon-El. However, the contempt for Max didn't come CLOSE to the comments made this year about a "controversial" character.

The vile comments, the hate spew towards characters is coming from SHIPPERS not the Fandom.

Chyler once said, after being told Alex was going to be gay, the execs warned her she needed to prepare herself for an influx of fans. Where were those fans last season? Dare I say NOT Supergirl fans... SANVER fans.

I wonder what would happen if Katie McGrath left the show or was... Killed off... Or... Had never been cast? Hmmmm..... Just fyi... I LOVE Katie. I LOVE Lena and what she's done for the dynamics of the show. But my gracious... So... much... drama outside of the show. If Katie left, would, too, the drama?

Yes, shippers are passionate. Passion is FANTASTIC for a show. Us non-shippers are passionate. But please... Stop lumping the Supergirl Fandom as part of the various Ship Fandom Warfares.

thing is Mon-El isnt the real problem, he is simply the the current target because he happens to be in the way of an agenda campaigned by the supercorp fandom. Anyone in the way of that agenda gets attacked. I point to Jack Spheer played by Rahul Kohli as evidence who expressed his distaste for some of those fans because he received enough hate during his 1 episode stint to make a public statement.

I've been seeing this a lot lately, talk of an agenda. What agenda? I don't understand what people are considering their "agenda" to be?

For Lena and Kara to be a relationship on screen so they can have their ship

No, no, and no again. That is NOT true. I am a proud karolsen fan, and the reason I hate mon el has nothing to do with ships. Many others will tell you the same thing. This is homophobic BS that karamel shippers toss around to discredit antis.

no no no, you will not put words in my mouth, that is uncalled for. My sister is gay, my best friend is gay. I proudly walked in the march for pride so DO NOT come at me with that. keep it civilzed plz as I have not yet insulted or insinuated anything about you.

I would honestly hope you consider deleting this post as it is very offensive and disrespectful to me.

No, I will not. I called the shipping argument homophobic, not you. This is a very common thing in fandom; people ship a f/f pairing when one or more parties are in a (usually unhealthy) relationship with a man, and the m/f shippers accuse f/f shippers of having an "agenda" when they protest the m/f pairing. It happened in OUAT and things got nasty. Even in t100, where clexa was canon, bellarke shippers regularly lampoon clexa shippers. This isn't a new phenomenon, but I don't want to see it perpetuated here.

The "agenda" excuse ignores the fact that people have real, valid reasons for not liking mon el. It's a way to discredit people. I didn't mean to insinuate that you were homophobic, and I'm sorry that it seemed that way. That was not my intention. But saying that people only hate mon el for a f/f shipping agenda is homophobic.

And nobody's saying their relationship needs to be perfect, just healthy. Healthy couples argue, that's a fact. But they argue about inconsequential things; they don't lash out at each other over the basis of who each person is. If they do do that, can we really be calling them a healthy couple? If couples are finding so much fault in who their significant other is should that couple really be together?

Actually, healthy couples fight about all kinds of things, not all are inconsequential. But, that doesn't make them automatically unhealthy.

"If couples are finding so much fault in who their significant other is should that couple really be together?"

If you're referring to Mon-El and Kara, I can't answer that. It's a relationship created by writers, and we only see bits and pieces on screen of said fictional relationship. For all we know, they attend couple therapy.

But, as far as this relates to the Supergirl fandom: You're correct. People can watch something that for THEM is a trigger for a past experience. As a high school teacher, we have a way to work with that...a student can opt out of a book, a video, an assignment. They don't attack other students or the teacher because they don't choose to opt out also.

Another example: Working at lock-down, sex-ed was a whole different beast than in public school. The therapists and nurses showed very graffic sex-ed videos. If a therapist knew it was going to be a trigger for a student, arrangements were made. But, that didn't make sex bad because it was a trigger for others. Harsh example to what we are talking about, but I've seen very harsh, vile comments coming from shipdoms. My point... Relationships have their ugly moments. If some of the ugly is shown on tv, and its a trigger for someone, they shouldn't watch. But what is a trigger for someone doesn't mean it's bad for all. That trigger doesn't mean it's reality. It doesn't make it fact. Triggers can be REMINDERS of a past event. But it doesn't necessarily mean the past represents present.

If a group of writers and executives don't see a character as abusive, it's probable that character isn't abusive. Doesn't mean behaviors of said character won't trigger someone's personal experience. So my initial comments about fans who experience these triggers but then attack writers, actors, the rest of the fan base, THAT is what worries me.

I don't know about anyone else but I am oh so ready to move on from reading about "ships" and "shipper fandom" and the amount of dislike for certain characters. It will be extra nice to hear from the cast (those people that actually entertain us) @ SDCC on Saturday with thoughts on their characters and hopefully some tidbits about Season 3.

Bring on Supergirl vs Reign in Season 3, that's what I'm anticipating the most.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN......

did you guys see the entire interview? did you see the part where Jeremy says sorry? people arent perfect and sometimes make mistakes. is he to be damned anyway or is forgiven?

I did. But he literally knew how fans would react. He knew they'd be upset. Did he think his actions would actually hurt people? Likely no. But that doesn't negate the fact that people are hurt.

The fact that even after the theatrics Katie stepped in to continue to offer her support to the shippers but was interrupted by yet another hurtful anti-lgbt comment from the cast is ridiculous.

This situation has gotten way out of hand. If they can't acknowledge that what they did was wrong and hurtful to many non-shippers then they will continue to be 'damned'. I think they should offer some sort of 'formal apology'. To what extent of an apology, I don't know. But something meaningful is better than the weak apology we (lgbt viewers) got.

People speak of 'intentions' as if that's an excuse. Yes, they likely didn't intend to disrespect wlw viewers, but they did. Their actions were likely a direct result of those bad shippers, but yet it affected so many more people than said shippers. That's why there's such an outrage over it.

so you acknowledge the intent probably wasn't meant to be hurtful and still wont accept a 'weak' apology. An apology he literally said like 30 seconds later when upon reflection realized what he said and how it would be taken. forgiveness isnt something given because people deserve it, its something given because people need it. Perhaps you could be the bigger person, perhaps you could be the one to give forgiveness?

Saw the video. He did nothing wrong. He correctly addressed an over-agressive and over-assertive ship community. It was not an attack on sexuality. Answer this: If Lena was a male character, and he rectified that they were only friends, would that be an attack on hetero relationships?

I'm guessing it wouldn't be. So why would it be an attack on same-sex relationships? Is it more fragile and vulnerable than straight relations? I'd think not, because now that would be homophobic. If the two concepts are equal, then there should be no problem.

Those who demanded an apology from Jeremy in fact owe him one. It is blatant bullying, and he was nice enough to say sorry for something he did not need to. It is a violation of both the nature of the intended canon of the show, and his dignity,

The emphasis wasn't essential, but is very much justified. Again it's not about sexuality. He reacted to the fact that so many people think there is something between Lena and Kara, and placed the emphasis there. Once more, this isn't straight vs gay, this is canon vs a fanfiction gone wild.

If Jeremy had something against LGBT, you'd think he said something about Alex/Maggie long ago? Nothing but positivity about Sanvers came from the cast, know why? It's canon. Sexuality got nothing to do with it.

People overreact about something like this, send hateful comments, and wonder why the cast of this show continually bail on conventions.

Jeremy did NOT bash w/w relations, or anything LGBT. He has been championing LGBT rights for a long time. He cracked a joke about a group of shippers. Do you get it? A group of effing shippers. When did shipping become a life and death issue for people, warranting hate speech and threatening messages?

Kara and Lena have NEVER been insinuated to be more than friends on the show. Yeah, Supercorp shippers have wanted more, but that's NEVER been the direction of the show. And you guys now want to be hateful towards Jeremy Jordan because he cracked a joke at a group of shippers who have built a HORRID reputation for themselves because of the way they conduct themselves online and at conventions? To the point that even the CAST knows how volatile they are?

Seriously, I used to like coming to this forum, but it's ruined for me. Jeremy didn't attack women, or LGBT people. He joked about a self absorbed and self entitled group of shippers who've done nothing but create an absolutely terrible reputation for themselves online, through spewing hateful comments to the cast, creators, and anyone else who disagrees with them.

Now let me be clear. I advocate for LGBT rights. And I have absolutely nothing against the Supercorps shippers who have been polite and treated people with respect. Honestly, if they writers did swing the story in that direction, I'd be cool with it.

But when it comes to the Supercorp shippers who have contributed to the groups reputation by overreacting to every little effin thing (and some of you are on this forum), this rant is for you, and I have no sympathy for you. I'd be just as ticked off at the Karamel shippers, or any other group of shippers, if they had built the reputation you had. The very fact that the cast feels the need to watch what they say about a non-existant fictional romantic relationship between to characters...your entire shipping fandom is out of hand.

There is absolutely no reason Jeremy should feel so guilt ridden at the end of what SHOULD have a been a fun and amazing day, because of a joke he made.

Yeah, if he had ACTUALLY said anything hateful or derogatory towards women or LGBT people, then yes, I'd be angry. But you took a joke and blew it WAY out of proportion, and made a KNOWN LGBT rights activist fees sh*tty about himself.

These are people. Doing a JOB.

I hope you all are happy with yourselves. The Supercorp reputation is so bad, at this point, that I wouldn't blame the writers if they dismissed Supercorp straight out. Why should they reward the behavior that shipping group has shown? And as many of you can take offense to this post as you like. I don't care. But I haven't called you names, I haven't threatened you. I've even gone out of my way to point out that this post is NOT directed towards the peaceful and respectful SUPERCORP shippers. But the rest of you have ruined it for everybody. And I hope you all feel just as crappy as you made cast member feel tonight.

How do you guys still not get that this isn't just about some dumb ship? We've moved past that. But since y'all wanna harp on it then let's. The 'song' was supposed to be a recap of s2. How is adding anything about SC considered to be part of s2? It isn't, because it's not real, it's a fanon ship. So why even say it? He said it to get back at those fans who have been complete assholes (for lack of a better word). Fine. But in doing so, he inadvertently disrespected all of those shippers who have been nothing but kind. Like I keep saying, he didn't just sing it once and continue, no. He sang it repeatedly and pretty much screamed it. I'm sure the SC shippers know that their ship was never gonna happen, let's be real here. But did those peaceful fans deserve this? Certainly not. Jeremy could've expressed his distaste for the ship/shippers in a different setting, but he didn't. He chose to go all out at one of the most public settings ever. His outburst has warranted some of the backlash he's gotten. I'm not condoning those people who have taken things too far, but I am condoning those speaking out against what was said and done.

You guys really don't see how 'it's an attack on the whole community' because YOU ARE NOT A PART OF THE COMMUNITY! You don't understand what we've been through or are going through. You don't understand because you're not us. It's like a white person trying to invalidate the issues affecting POCs; they'll never understand. So if you're not a part of the LGBT community, yeah, you're not gonna understand. If someone tells you that you hurt their feelings with something you said, what do you do?
Typically we apologize, say it wasn't our intention and move on. We don't start claiming that that person isn't actually hurt, they're overreacting and they're wrong. (If this is something you actually do then wow you're a pretty awful person). What I'm asking is that you all accept that what has happened has managed to unintentionally hurt people whether you agree or not.

Sure Katie said "for once, it's not here" but then she followed that up by immediately saying that apparently it is. She understands that fans interpret shows how they see fit. She doesn't find it necessary to invalidate anybody just because she doesn't see it personally. As far as Sanvers goes, that's a whole different story. Their storyline is obviously coming to a close. What kind of rep is that? They hardly get any decent screentime as it is and now they'll be gone. Great rep for wlw huh?

Thalolli: PERSONAL KINKS!?!?!?! Are you kidding me? That's is the most homophobic disgusting piece of trash I've ever read on this site. To call the idea of people wanting a certain f/f relationship a "personal kink" is despicable. Please keep your homophobia to yourself.

And again, THIS ISN'T ABOUT A SHIP! At this point I can repeat myself over and over again but y'all will just never get it. These actors do have a job to do, and that's to portray their character. They aren't meant to be out there publicly invalidating fake relationships. All that does is create unrest in communities and cause hurt.

Supercorp was never going to be given the light of day. Shippers know this, non-shippers know this. So what was the point of doing what they did? They did it to be mean to SC shippers and by extension mocked fellow lgbt viewers.

Why do you guys think it is that he feels shitty about himself? THINK!! If he truly felt he did no wrong then he shouldn't feel bad. But he realizes that he ACCIDENTALLY hurt fans. As a KNOWN LGBT rights activist, he understands how his actions hurt others, he gets it, but you guys don't. His second apology speaks volumes. Read that one if you haven't already. He sees the repercussions of his actions and has given a heartfelt apology. I've accepted his apology. Others have too. But that will never erase the fact that what was meant to be a joke turned into something all together hurtful.

Actually it has become very clear and simple. Others and I have said various things which summed together, definitively demonstrates why it is not an attack on sexuality in what should be a logically infallible way. I used to self victimise a lot too, thinking everything is an attack on a group I belong to. Sometimes obviously such worries are well warranted, but in this case frankly there is no way you can make this into homophobia.

Actually it has become very clear and simple. Others and I have said various things which summed together, definitively demonstrates why it is not an attack on sexuality in what should be a logically infallible way. I used to self victimise a lot too, thinking everything is an attack on a group I belong to. Sometimes obviously such worries are well warranted, but in this case frankly there is no way you can make this into homophobia.

This was never the case of homophobia. This was a case of invalidating a large portion of their viewer audience. This was a case of mocking and dismissing a segment of the fandom. For a show that prides itself on being LGBT positive, this was absolutely insensitive