The State of the Supergirl Fandom

Wait so ships have to be validated now? The writers and cast needs not worry about fan interpretations of their work. Perhaps I firmly believe J'onn should hook up with Barry and Martin Stein while we're at it. Maybe I think there is a serious romantic spark between Metallo and Lilian Luthor. Maybe I think Oliver should date his arrows. Should the cast pay attention to me? Should they validate or encourage me? I wouldn't if I was the cast.

Jeremy stated a fact. Within the universe of Supergirl the show, Kara and Lena are just friends. What is wrong? I'm in luck the legions of fans of say Star Wars don't have the SuperCorp mentality, else when Daisy Ridley said Jyn and Rey have no relation there'd be a riot too. I think fans of other franchises at least understands to keep fan-fiction to fan-fiction. This is the first time I've seen a community so boldly aggressive they think their obviously non-canon interpretation should not only be respected by other shippers but the people involved with the show themselves.

Of course not. But should they be so publicly invalidated? Especially a non-canon ship that (aside from shippers) no one cares about. I'm not saying SC should've been validated, I'm saying it should've never been addressed in the first place.

Gosh you still don't get it. This isn't about the ship itself. This is about the respectful wlw viewers who were mocked in the rudest of ways. It was unnecessary. Take a look outside of the fandom and see what the LGBT community is saying about it. Look at this from their perspective. Stop falling back on to the shipping part of it as that isn't the issue here.

Unfortunately, a large portion of the people who are outraged online view it as homophobia. I personally don't. Reiterating that I have no ill will towards the peaceful and respectful Supercorp shippers, I think the only reason the topic came to mind for Jeremy during the "rap" is because of that smaller-yet-extremely-vocal segment of the Supercorp shippers that have been incredibly disrespectful. The people who have sent death threats to Chris, and harassed Rahul for for the ONE episode he did. That's the subgroup that the cast most likely associates with Supercorp most. I also think that's one of the reasons Supercorp continuously keeps coming up in interviews. I'm not Jeremy, so I can't say for sure, but I imagine that's what I imagine he was thinking of it when the joke was made.

Was the joke made in bad taste? Maybe. I didn't find it offensive, but I'm neither a shipper, nor LGBT. And I understand that I will never understand what the people of that community go through. But I've seen posts from LGBT people and Supercorp shippers defending Jeremy against the seemingly disproportionate backlash. But the less respectful minority of Supercorp has definitely left an impression, seemingly negative, with the cast. It's sad, but you can tell by the looks on their faces any time it's brought up.

And now people are harassing Melissa, saying she should apologize. From the video, I don't think she really did anything wrong.

I have absolutely nothing against Supercorp as a concept. I just unfortunately think that the group (again, due to what I believe is a very vocal minority) has a stigma attached to it, now, and even the cast is aware of it. It's a shame that a ship, any ship, has gotten to that point.

In the end, I think it was joke, with no ill will behind it. He realized soon after the impact of it, and tried to apologize. I also think it has been blown WAY out of proportion.

I too don't see it as homophobia. The joke was made in bad taste. Naturally you wouldn't find it offensive as it isn't something that would offend you. I on the other hand found hurt in it, but that's because this is something I've gone through with other fandoms. For once I was glad I wasn't a shipper as I know from experience that nothing good comes from shipping non-canon f/f ships. But I never would've thought something like this would happen. People were so concerned with a fan being disrespectful at comic con but instead we got some of the cast being disrespectful to some of the fans.

We've gone over how awful those SC shippers have been. But to punish the entire SC fandom by outright mocking them is insensitive. It's unfortunate that this has happened, but how was it fair to those fans who aren't jerks to the cast/writers? Why is it ok to make them feel less than for wanting some more f/f rep all because some other fans ruined things for them? It isn't.

I agree that it was meant as a joke. But it was a joke that fell flat. It was a bad joke whose punchline was the lgbt viewer audience. It was a bad joke that was apologized for twice now. And this bad joke caused hurt in a community that is regularly plagued by hate, so the reaction has reached a critical high because of it.

So in summary, at some point we concurred that what Jeremy said is not homophobic. Just then we also agreed fan's interpretations needs no validation.

So, given that, Jeremy stated Kara and Lena are just friends, granted, with emphasis. Also addressed the past aggression of the SC shippers have left a lasting impact on the cast, and not confined to shipping, they frequently claim that Kara and Lena are in fact romantically attracted, and therefore Jeremy emphasised that in recognised canon, they aren't, as is the right thing to do. No other shipdom has warranted such response because none were that assertive.

So....."the rudest of ways"? He sang a song with a smiling face. It is clear he was in a friendly mood. He stated a fact. If that was the rudest of ways, I dread to think of your reactions to the vast quantities of real homophobia present in reality.

The underlying issue is that Jeremy's recognition of SC wasn't necessary. It was done purely to spite those SC shippers but ended up hurting others too. You keep making it all about the ship when I keep telling you it's more than that.

Ahh yes so if someone was insulting you with a smile on their face then it's all good huh? He made it all into a big joke; that was rude. His inclusion of SC was unnecessary and to be done is such a jovial manner while simultaneously being mean is rude. I live through vast quantities of homophobia in my everyday life; this was not one of them. This was purely a hurtful thing, not homophobic.

Liking these last few posts by Fedguy and DraftingDrafter.

I can't say I face any prejudices that you both face. I'm a straight male. I'm off-white (I say that, jokingly, because I'm not exactly white, but I don't know what my heritage is).

Only prejudice I've faced is that I'm short. Like, REALLY short, for a guy. So yeah, I can't say I know what it's like to face racial prejudice, or against sexual orientation. And I can never pretend that I know what you each go through.

But one thing I will say, and it may or may not apply to Jeremy's situation, is this:

Because I don't face those challenges, I sometimes don't realize that something I've said, that has absolutely no ill will behind it, was offensive to somebody. This might be the case with Jeremy. While a LGBT supporter, he is not LGBT, so he may not have realized the impact it would have on that community.

But he made an apology, afterwards. And when I make a mistake like that, I try to do the same.

On the flip side, I think the offended person or people should make an attempt to realize that the comment, whether in this situation or in others like it, may not have had negative intentions behind it. We need to use those opportunities, and instead of being outraged and spewing threats, explain why something may have been offensive to the person involved. And if they apologize, I think we need to do our best to accept that apology.

We're going beyond this situation with Jeremy, at this point, but I just think it was a good example.

When it comes to shipping, I've just never personally understood how some people can take it so very seriously. And I think this might apply to Jeremy's situation, as well. The important part is that he tried to make some sort of amends.

So while people need to try to be more cognizant of what they are saying in the moment, I also think that people need to recognize when something was genuinely said with ill intent, versus when it was said without knowing the extent of the impact it would have.

Regardless, I think everyone here (at least those still online) recognize that the online reaction was extreme, compared to the situation.

Okay... to add another perspective (personal experience):

In India, there are a number of films where mlm relationships or gay men are played for laughs. There used to be award shows where these two popular actors would jump around the stage with hands on each others waist. Then, the maid would come in and act all shocked... and then, there would be an entire scene on the parents feeling shocked. Every moment is filled with audience laughing. Laughing because that is what a relationship between two men are worth.

The singing, especially, Mehcad standing up and doing that dance number, reminded me of that. It was a visceral reaction. I mean, I got why Jeremy said the whole "they are just friends" thing and I was amused slightly at first. But, then, it stretched on... and other folks joined in and Mehcad danced... and well, I started feeling nauseated.

I think it was a call back in my mind to all those times (personally and on screen) when LGBT folks are played for laughs. (My first real exposure to homosexuality was, a girl I had a crush on and her friend laughing about two girls committing suicide because they were in love and the parents were looking for a marriage for one of the girls. I was 17. Didn't really understand what they were saying because I didn't know there are girls who loved girls or boys loved boys. But, yet, somehow I identified with it, and felt so bad about it... that I am pretty sure it had a strong effect (among other things) on how long I took to identify myself as gay. I finally gave in only at 30*--a few years back.)

I do understand that Jeremy didn't mean to be homophobic. In fact, I never thought he or any of the cast are. And, yeah, they naturally (because they are straight), don't know the extent to which certain things can call back certain moments and cause pain to people. And honestly, whether you are gay or straight, POC or white, I don't think you can ever go through life without making such mistakes. Such is life.

When you find that you have hurt someone, all you can do is apologise. That way all sides can grow. People who inadvertently hurt can know something about the other person's personal journey and experience. And the person who was hurt can know that the other person never had the thought that you attributed to him. Jeremy did that. And I am happy about that.

And... I am sad that folks sent horrible comments to him--a reasonable note that he hurt LGBT folks, yes...because honestly, ignorance is nobody's friend here. But, nothing and nobody deserves hateful comments. And really, even from an activism POV (if you don't care about the actor's feelings, which is understandable if you are emotionally wrung up over what happened), all it does is muddle the issue because then it becomes about the hateful comments and bullying. If people think sending hateful comments is LGBT friendly or they are doing the community or themselves a service, in my opinion, they are not. All they are doing is hurting the community and fogging the issue. To be honest though, I don't think LGBT activists or any activist do that either.

*I now feel like an old woman.

Call me a dunderhead. I saw these apologies from Jermey Jordan about an improptue song of last year's summary. As well as, I noted criticism of Melissa for being not sensitive to lesbian feelings. I saw the video and listened to the song and I heard nothing homophobic about about it. They just sang that Kara and Lena are friends.

Am I missing something here? Please feel free to let me know if I am missing something. I will not take offense.

Argo

To add onto what I said (as a response to what Fedguy said). I get you.
However, I don't think it is about feeling the victim.
I don't think we (LGBT folks) are culturally yet at a place where we could laugh at jokes made about us. It is the reaction of the strong (not necessarily physically or in numbers)...but folks who are sure of their place in the world. folks self-assured enough to ignore such. and hopefully, we will be there some day. But, right now, many of us are still at a place where we doubt ourselves.. near constantly. We wonder whether we really are an aberration. We wonder what our fate would be if tomorrow say the majority decided that all homosexuals should be jailed or killed (like it happened in India in 2013 or it is happening in Chechnya now). It is an incredibly vulnerable position to be in (and, in my opinion, same is the case for all minorities; but we LGBT end up being minorities within those minorities).
So, yeah.. we (some of us, may be not all) are a bit touchy... Because we are not yet at a place where we are like... "Hell! The majority can do whatever they want; ignore us... laugh at us... We are not going to care... We are going to party." Or, may be say "that is a very good joke! that is funny!" Though it'd be fun to be there and to be able to laugh at ourselves too.

And again, I am speaking from a non-western POV. Supergirl is watched all over the world. And.. LGBT folks are all over the world too.

Ha! Okay. I realise now that I replied too early. Because what I said can be easily summed up by what DraftingDrafter said.

FedGuy, I had not read your second post in this thread when I replied (I thought I had come to the end of the thread). In any case, I am really sorry anyone anywhere has to go through or experience hate. And, the lack of rep can be horrible too.

Argo: Thanks for your supportive comment earlier. I have tried to explain, in the comment below yours (if you sort by Latest), why it was painful to me. Others may have other reasons.

To end: I do love the cast. I know they make mistakes. It is human. I am happy they do apologise when they feel that they have done something wrong. I don't think they should be vilified (or anyone should be). I hope I will have the courage to always apologise when I make mistakes too (however, inadvertent).

There was no attack at all from Jeremy or any of the cast. They set the record straight about 2 friends on the show. Thats it.

They never addressed Sanvers. Its like SC shippers are Totally forgetting the real LGBT couple on the show. Yet some of the SC fandom still say its an attack at LGBT. That is what makes this whole thing so weird and quite frankly ridiculous from the SC.

Even Katie laughed at that song as well so Why are they only hating on Jeremy and Mel now. The loud small and toxic part of SC fandom is the most obscure thing i witnessed ever in any fandom of any show.

Did you read any of our explanations for why we're upset or are you just gonna turn a blind eye?

not only is this horse dead, but we've made burgers and put ketchup on this sucker at this point.

Jeremy wouldn't have said this if some Supercorp shippers weren't bullies and they proved how much they are bullies after the incident.

Kara and Lena's relationship is not LGBT rep. Fans making it a fanon relationship doesn't change that and if the actors and the show weren't constantly being attacked by these fanon shippers who want to make this canon, Jeremy wouldn't even know about them nor would he firmly state that they were only friends.

All this is another episode of online bullying in the Supergirl fandom.

Jeremy shouldn't have said it period. SC has nothing to do with the show, it's non-canon but he chose to include it in his recap. Those shippers were deliberately targeted and Jeremy knew there would be backlash.

You don't get to decide what is or isn't LGBT rep for my community. We have so little rep that we have to create our own, that's how SC came to be. I've been around fandoms for a while now, so while I knew better than to invest in a non-canon ship, young wlw girls did not. And those are the shippers that are upset about it, cause they just wanted to ship their ship in peace. But bc SC gained a bad rep the cast took it out on the entire SC fandom, which was a poor move on their part.

And here I am, yet again, repeating myself that this situation wasn't because he said they were friends. This has everything to do with how the cast approached the topic of SC, not what was said per se.

Now these SC are sending Death threats to Jeremy and Mel. Rahul was not only right about them. He actually downplayed them. In reality they are worse. Death threats is some serious stuff. Whats wrong with some of these
SC some of them are totally messed up

I haven't seen any death threats. Could you please tell us the accounts (twitter handles, instagram accounts) doing that so we can report them. Some links would be great, thanks.

Now these SC are sending Death threats to Jeremy and Mel. Rahul was not only right about them. He actually downplayed them. In reality they are worse. Death threats is some serious stuff. Whats wrong with some of these
SC some of them are totally messed up

I haven't seen any death threats. Could you please tell us the accounts (twitter handles, instagram accounts) doing that so we can report them. Some links would be great, thanks.

I've said my piece on this topic, so I'm done with it. You either agree or you don't. But I do agree with DraftingDrafter. If you find death threats to any of the cast on twitter, instagram, wherever, please share it here, along with a URL, so we can report it. Whether you are upset about this situation or not, personal threats towards the cast are never warranted.

My thoughts exactly starlord. I don't know who this person is that wrote the email, but they really shouldn't have.

Don't think her agent would spell McGrath wrong
Idiotic move by this person to do this

seems someone emailed Melissa's team for an apology. Here is the statement from her team

@Thalolli

Well said. I'm aware that it's not everyone, but Kara/Lena shippers have been sending threatening messages to cast members for months, before this fiasco ever happened. And because of that, that particular group of fans (even if not all of them are guilty of abuse) likely have a bad reputation in the cast's eyes. Why do you think interviewers continually ask about Supercorp? Because they are aware of how out of hand segments of that fan group have gotten, and it adds drama to the interview.

I'm also aware that not everyone is doing this, but construing this incident as a slight against the whole LGBTQ+ community is out of hand. Yes, it may have been aimed at the aforementioned segment of the Supercorp shippers who have said horrible things and made threats, prior to this incident. But many members of the LGBTQ+ community have come forward saying that this in no way offended them. Some of them (not me) have stated they feel people are being overly sensitive about the situation, and that the seemingly overreaction hinders what they have fought for over the years.

Now, I'm not LGBTQ, so I don't think I get a say in that particular situation. But I do get to have an opinion. And mine is that it was not offensive to me, and it was never intended to be offensive to the LGBTQ community. It's also my opinion that the reaction was blown WAY out of proportion to the actual incident.

Many people have said something akin to "if you're not gay, you don't get to have an opinion on this, and you can't see why this was hurtful". Well, I pose you this question: If it's not possible for a straight person to understand where your coming from and why you are offended, then how in the world was Jeremy Jordan supposed to know how it would hurt you? or Melissa?

Saying straight people don't know what hurts you, then getting super upset when a straight person hurts you unintentionally just doesn't make sense to me. If straight people "don't know", then how was he or Melissa supposed to?

Back to the topic of SuperCorp shippers. I'm truly sorry if you were hurt over this. And I'm NOT saying you asked for it. But I will say I think the extreme segment of the SuperCorp fanbase ruined your group's reputation long before comic con, due to the aforementioned threats against Chris and Rahul, at the very least. And when a group sends that type of pure hate, and even threats of harm, to the cast, I can't blame them for wanting to set the record straight. And I honestly think Melissa said it was "brave" of him because she knew the blowback would be insane. Kinda like saying he was just being really ballsy about it.

And as for how it was handled...when you're improvising a song as you go, you sometimes just say what comes to mind, without having a chance to really think it through. I'm not saying what happened was right, I'm just saying you can't take the time to filter what you wanna say when you are improving a song.

And for a different perspective than anyone else. I am deeply disappointed in what the cast did. And I know many others are also. But does that deserve the hate they received, absolutely not. A lot of people have reached out respectfully to the cast to let them know what the real issue is. This is not just about SC shippers. A lot of LGBT fandoms from other shows have also voiced their disappointment in what the cast did. I will not get into that here because that is not the point of my post. I just want to voice my opinion that people have a right to be hurt and to say they are is not wrong. Many have been respectful without the hate. The hate just gets more attention.

I hear you, and I respect your feelings on it....I disagree with you, but I respect how you feel. The problem however is, it has gone far beyond..."they are the ones getting the attention", that has been the reasoning for months now. That reasoning has gotten those of you who are fans of Lena nowhere. They are getting the attention because ANY, AND AT THIS POINT ANYthing that these actors post on Instagram or Twitter is then inundated with the hate, with MAYBE 2 people that believe as you do calling for calm. It went beyond that weeks ago.

What if, just a what if....Jeremy had said in his song...and then Lena and Kara became good friends, so please stop harassing us on Twitter and Instagram and let us post in peace with all the fans....do you think that would have been allowed to pass? I think not, we would have the same exact thing as we have now. Had they left just the first part of what I said....the same thing would have happened. HAD THEY SAID NOTHING at all about Lena and Kara, that would have triggered hate as well. The Sanvers crowd was upset that Maggie and Alex weren't mentioned in the song....

When you have a group of people that simply want to spew hate, anything will set that off. And we have proof after proof after proof of that.

So, though you totally....YOU TOTALLY have my respect in what you are feeling.... unless your side of this fandom doesn't speak up louder........this will continue and it will no longer be a "they hijacked our fandom" it will be "guilt by association"....In that song, they weren't disrespecting you, they were confronting (FOR THE FIRST TIME I MIGHT ADD) that faction of the fandom that has shown them nothing but disrespect, threats and harassment. Did they mean to come off in a disrespectful way to you? Of course not...but to you they did, and that's a problem, but you will never get redemption in this as a fandom because this group that you say gets the attention, once this dies down, will find something new....it will be in a look from Melissa at Katie in an interview that means absolutely nothing, it will be in a rumor made up by someone to forward their narrative, but it will happen again. That I am totally sure of. I wish soooo much that this fandom was unified in its love for Supergirl, that is where I stand and will continue to stand. But the...."That's them......" narrative just does not go very far with me anymore. I'm sorry....

It took a few days to wade through all the SDCC coverage (great job by the admins, btw!) and I've mostly stayed mum on this thread since everyone else pretty much echoed my sentiments (it's actually scary how Thaloli and Kelly and I are almost always on the same wavelength on most issues) but please allow me to share my thoughts on the rightful mess post-SDCC.

As far as I see it:

1) The LGBT community wanted representation so they made up the Supercorp ship (nothing wrong with that)
2) Sometime during S2, they allowed the vilest, most disgusting elements to become the voice of their fandom
3) That toxic group started harassing/bullying cast and crew whenever their dream ship isn't being serviced
4) The cast/crew has had enough and began fighting back, culminating in Jeremy invalidating the whole SC ship
5) The shippers feel slighted and doubled down on their hate

And my reaction/opinion to that is:

I absolutely have no sympathy for them and they deserve whatever comeuppance comes their way. If you've hurled vicious threats all season long but have the audacity to play the victims after the casts' negative response to your vitriol, you deserve dirt. I'm sorry, but there's really no justifying their behavior.

That being said, it was unfortunate that some of the non-toxic fans were hurt in the process and they deserve every bit of our empathy. It's also regrettable that in this day and age, anything said/done can offend just about anyone (and that toxic group is always on the lookout to pick apart anything to feel affronted by). So while not all members of the LGBT community took offense to Jeremy's outburst, to make matters worse, the ones that did rallied their troops so that even non-fans started piling on the hate.

We all know that Jeremy was clapping back at the behavior of the toxic SC fans. The part of it being blown out of proportion was that even LGBT folks who aren't even fans of the show put on an assault, throwing around words like "homophobia" so casually without even bothering to educate themselves about Jeremy's history as an LGBT advocate. And adding their hateful rhetoric to those from the SC hooligans only further exposed how much toxicity is within the LGBT community itself (although a lot of them voiced their concerns respectfully as well).

If that's the kind of representation they wanted, then congrats to them for succeeding. Supercorp has now become a pariah in Hollywood circles and they only have themselves to blame for that. The behavior of their toxic fans run counter-intuitive to what they're trying to accomplish and the message they're trying to send. If I were a showrunner, it would definitely give me pause to introduce any LGBT storylines if there's even a remote chance of opening up my cast to such attacks. If I was a casting director, I'd really think twice about hiring talent with a history of troublesome fans, not when I have a whole pool of other actors to choose from (I really like Katie but boy does she have a lot of messed up fans). And cannibalizing one of their strongest supporters does no favors to the LGBT community at large. I genuinely feel for the respectful LGBT folks and the good SC'ers whose whole fandom has been dragged through the mud but maybe this incident empowers them to TAKE THEIR FANDOM BACK.

As of this writing, the nasties are currently harassing David (him and Melissa have blocked people anew) and even started on Rahul again. Isn't it just sad that the cast actually expects vitriol hurled their way whenever they say/do something? In their interviews, you can clearly see them visibly stiffen up and throw each other side glances whenever the Kara/Lena relationship is even broached. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the cast cancels every con on the future than deal with this BS.

The only potential silver lining in all this is that I hope the hooligans actually follow through with their threat to stop watching the show (yeah, right). To that I say good riddance. Please go ruin some other show and leave us alone. The SG fandom will be so much better without them.

I tried replying earlier but it showed an empty comment.

So let me try again. I think there are a lot of things going on.

First of all it seems that people fail to make the distinction between "I'm offended" and "that's offensive". People can and do get offended by any number of things, but that varies from person to person. When you say something is offensive you are saying that everyone is offended, or that everyone should be offended.

Second is the issue of intent. People say it doesn't matter what Jeremy intended because the damage is the same.
I disagree, call me old fashioned but I think intentions matter, even if the result is the same.
Imagine I spill a glass of red wine on your white carpet. There is a difference between me deliberately throwing my wine glass at the carpet, and me dropping my wine glass because I tripped. Yes, either way I should apologize and try to fix it, but that doesn't mean you have the right to accuse me of vandalism.

The worst part of all of this is that it occurred in the huge lull between seasons, otherwise we would be discussing what happened in the last episode and speculating on what will happen in the next episode.

I honestly don't understand how people can put so much energy into being spiteful.
I am strongly reminded of Jon Ronson's TED talk "How one tweet can ruin your life"

@Kelly,

How do we go about that rally? Should we use that image in our tweets and posts?

On twitter, Instagram and tumblr use it as your profile pic.....if you are tweeting something that you think is important and is a high five to the cast, or a cast member, you can put attach it to your tweet. You use it however you want.....

@ Gavagai : Thank you for the video, it was painful and instructive to watch.
@ SSAV : Thank you for your statement you moved me.
@ Admin (Eric) : Thank you for your recapitulation of the events.

At that point im' just sad for everybody. Anyway i'm sending love to everyone (no exception).