The State of the Supergirl Fandom

Please allow me pose these questions to the Supercorp fans here:

1) Do you condone booing any of the Supergirl cast/crew at screenings/panels?
2) Have you seen a concerted/orchestrated plan to undermine Katie (or the Lena character) at conventions?
3) Have you witnessed any death threats against Katie for simply portraying a character on a TV show?

My sincere hope is that you've answered negative to all of the above because I would like to believe that none of you are part of that toxic portion of your fandom. But with that said, all of the above have been directed at the actor Chris Wood and the character Mon-El. Which is why I believe there's now a backlash against that vile element of Supercorp. I'm not saying there are no bad elements in Karamel (no fandom is perfect after all) but you can surely see the concern towards this specific fandom because the attacks have been steadily escalating.

Somebody mentioned (I believe it was littlestar?) that they were called out by the larger collective and that it won't happen again. While I applaud the efforts to reign them in, unfortunately it HAS already happened (just yesterday) and will continue to happen unless something is done by the larger Supercorp fandom, and them alone (since any outside rebuke will be construed as an attack against them). In whatever way plausible to shut down their toxic rhetoric (call them out, shame them, block them, etc.).

If not, they will continue to reflect poorly on the decent Supercorp fans unfortunate enough to be lumped with these hooligans. And all the name-dropping, name-calling of the Mon-El character by the Supercorp fans in general only serve to fan the flames of hate further. I've seen some of you make low-key, subtle jabs here in the forums and I implore you to refrain from doing this for the benefit of those who like Mon-El. You would likewise not appreciate it if sarcastic digs were aimed at your favorites.

It's ok to like what you like. You do you. The world would be so boring if everyone liked the same things. But attacking the cast/crew and other fans for liking something you don't agree with... that's unacceptable.

The despicable amount of hate being generated by that toxic faction is genuinely affecting people's lives as well as our enjoyment of the show. TV is supposed to be entertaining. When it comes to a point where the hate for a character/storyline is overwhelming and consuming you and you no longer enjoy it, I hope one finds the sense to step away and disengage. It must be exhausting to harbor such hatred and spew toxicity 24/7.

The point of Supergirl, the very show they're espousing to be a fan of, is to spread positivity. Yet they're doing the exact opposite. Positivity and respect moving forward is key. I like what I like, I respect what you like, and you do the same for me.

I like this, I like it a lot because it's a good evaluation of what makes rhetoric dangerous.

I, however, want to be as down the middle as possible.

Have Karamel shippers called out Sanvers supporters as supporting a non-important relationship?

Have Karamel shippers actively dismissed the imbalance of LGBT characters on tv because Mon-El is more socially acceptable

Have Karamel shippers called Lena and Kara not possible because Lena would never be lesbian?

Before we jump to answer these questions. Let me just say, I want to try and channel both or all sides of the fandom. These may or may not be my personal opinions but that shouldn't matter. What I like about where this thread is going is that we are illustrating each others' arguments and we are hearing them. We don't have to agree with them but hearing them, acknowledgeling them is the best step to saying "I hear your point and I don't agree but I don't dismiss you either"

Everyone, this is hard, this is life. These are hard level topics and people have their life dedicated to some of these topics. I appreciate the course we are starting to take. We are listening. We are presenting sides. And we are comprehending. I am not asking everyone to agree, but compassion, understanding and accepting that an opinion against yours is not an attack against you is pretty priceless. Thank you!

@Brierrose

I would suggest hopping into the thread and say as a fellow SC/KM/Sanvers fan (which ever is approptiate) reply by first removing the actor/writer/producer from mentions and ask them to chill. as a part of this segment I dont condone it.

When I see a KM fan getting to heated I usually just mention muting or blocking the attacking person and move on.

Like most things in life there's not one single simple solution. Why don't we use this thread to brainstorm ideas on ways to respond when we see another fan behaving badly on social media.

I think that's a fantastic idea!!

Not sure if this counts as a way to combat bad fandom behavior, but maybe when the official Supergirl twitter account tweets something we can all (for those of us with twitter accounts) let them know how much we appreciate all their hard work. I, for one, am sick and tired of seeing their posts overrun by hashtags like #karamelisoverparty and #karamelendgame. I'd rather the SG account see tweets supporting their show not ships.

The following was written by a good friend of mine, all credit goes to her.


I lost two Twitter friends yesterday. They both fell victim to a cancer spreading throughout social media, the cancer of the toxic fandom. It’s a vicious affliction that grows worse every day. I’ve seen it drive not only people like my friends, who enjoyed nothing more talking about their favorite shows but also writers, producers and even stars themselves from social media because of nasty and vitriolic posters. My friends found being around such actions were keeping them from having fun and being a part of a show’s online community and in one case drove one from social media altogether.

Make no mistake, I love television. I love talking about television and there is no greater place to do that these days than via social media, primarily Twitter. I have made friends all over the world on this instant medium. I longingly remember the days and was proud to be a part of a fandom of a certain show that banded together on Twitter, took on the Nielsen’s’, and earned our beloved show just one more season, and sat watching my timeline one night, tears in my eyes, as one of the stars of that show helped a young fan raise thousands of dollars for charity in a matter of hours.

While there are many great fandoms out there doing all sorts of wonderful things, sadly, I fear those type of fandom days are endangered by the toxicity prevalent in fandoms of many shows today. Just what makes a toxic fandom? Many things. For one, more and more people are posting without thinking of the consequences of their words. Now more than ever we should pause and look at what we’ve written before hitting send.

Today, there is rarely just a single group of fans any more, talking about their favorite show, debating what they liked and didn’t like with civil discourse. Now days a show’s fans are likely to be divided into warring factions fighting for dominance – this group hates one character, that group hates another, this character or actor’s not getting enough or too much screen time, and the poor writers, actors and producers get caught in the middle of the battles marked with vicious attacks, name calling, and scathing negativity.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being passionate about a show you love, however there is a difference between being passionate and crossing a line into toxicity. More and more are posting without thinking of the consequences of their words, when now more than ever we should pause and look at what we’ve written before hitting send.

It’s fine to tell a writer/producer or show runner you don’t like or care for a storyline or a certain character, what’s toxic is constantly bombarding them with hate filled tweets like, “kill this character” or “I hate this character” EVERY time they’re on line or anytime that character is mentioned in an article about the show. That goes way beyond overkill. Often posts like these cross the line from voicing displeasure to become whining, teeth-gnashing rants that sadly, at times, devolve into nasty bullying, name-calling or personal attacks.

Unfortunately, one of the fallacies of social media is its immediacy, and when a star or executive doesn’t respond to one of thousands of tweets or messages they likely receive daily in a timely fashion or with the answer the fan wants to hear, they’re often greeted with anger or vitriol. That fan may choose to respond like a petulant child because they believe they are entitled to a response. Just because someone is on Twitter does not mean you are entitled to a response or to attack or insult them just because they don’t respond to you. Remember, they don’t have to be there at all, they’re there because they choose to be, often taking the time after a long hard day on set or doing promotion for their show, or taking time away from their families to talk to fans. When they do choose to respond, they deserve to be treated with courtesy and respect.

The writers, producers, directors, and actors on any show on television work extremely long, difficult hours to bring episodes to our television or computer screens. And no matter how long, or how hard they work to bring us the best possible episodes of our favorite shows they will not please everyone with every episode. Many fans often forget that people associated with these shows take time out of their very busy lives, away from their families to come onto social media to talk to them, because like anyone, they enjoy hearing if they’ve done a good job or not.

Toxic fan actions aren’t just limited to those directly involved with a show, I’ve seen it directed at the entertainment media that covers those shows. I’ve had colleagues threatened, and insulted; message board comments filled with hate filled rants and more because they wrote something that dared to be opposite of what that fan may think. This is toxic.

Suddenly, it’s wrong to have an opinion different from a group who believe they are right beyond all discussion. Simply put, they’re right, you’re wrong all the time, because you don’t agree with them or believe as they do. And if you do disagree with them, and god forbid you post it anywhere, that’s when the most toxic of a group will band together with personal attacks and name calling.

Having been on the receiving end of attacks like this on more than one occasion, I completely understand why so many stars, writers and producers are disappearing from social media. Given the scale of the attacks I endured I can’t imagine what they must see every day.

I realize that by writing this I am opening myself up to more attacks. The reality is, that by writing this I hope to shine a light on the cancer of the toxic fandom, groups that I have watched tear apart great fandoms for many shows in recent years.

I know there are many great fans and great fandoms out there. It’s time to cut this cancer from social media and take back fandoms ripped to pieces by a toxic fandom. It’s time to #TakeBackOurFandom.

Love it kudos to your friend. The million dollar question is what to do when someone on social media is doing something we all agree is not ok, such as personally harassing an actor as in what happened to Rahul Kohli. I suggested that there is a responsibility to stand up and tell the person that the way they are expressing their opinion is not ok. Note I said the way they are expressing their opinion is not ok not that thier opinion is wrong or they don't have a right to express it. For most people if you say it that way it's not seen as a personal attack on thier opinion or thier right to be heard and they will stop. For those who don't stop or turn thier attack on the people calling them out on their behavior I suggest no further engagement. @DraftingDrafter suggested that we also show our support for the person being harassed and I wholeheartedly agree. Even if you agree with the opinion of the harasser you can still say something nice and simply by calling out the bad behavior your showing support.

Like most things in life there's not one single simple solution. Why don't we use this thread to brainstorm ideas on ways to respond when we see another fan behaving badly on social media.

Please allow me pose these questions to the Supercorp fans here:

1) Do you condone booing any of the Supergirl cast/crew at screenings/panels?
2) Have you seen a concerted/orchestrated plan to undermine Katie (or the Lena character) at conventions?
3) Have you witnessed any death threats against Katie for simply portraying a character on a TV show?

My sincere hope is that you've answered negative to all of the above because I would like to believe that none of you are part of that toxic portion of your fandom. But with that said, all of the above have been directed at the actor Chris Wood and the character Mon-El. Which is why I believe there's now a backlash against that vile element of Supercorp. I'm not saying there are no bad elements in Karamel (no fandom is perfect after all) but you can surely see the concern towards this specific fandom because the attacks have been steadily escalating.

Somebody mentioned (I believe it was littlestar?) that they were called out by the larger collective and that it won't happen again. While I applaud the efforts to reign them in, unfortunately it HAS already happened (just yesterday) and will continue to happen unless something is done by the larger Supercorp fandom, and them alone (since any outside rebuke will be construed as an attack against them). In whatever way plausible to shut down their toxic rhetoric (call them out, shame them, block them, etc.).

If not, they will continue to reflect poorly on the decent Supercorp fans unfortunate enough to be lumped with these hooligans. And all the name-dropping, name-calling of the Mon-El character by the Supercorp fans in general only serve to fan the flames of hate further. I've seen some of you make low-key, subtle jabs here in the forums and I implore you to refrain from doing this for the benefit of those who like Mon-El. You would likewise not appreciate it if sarcastic digs were aimed at your favorites.

It's ok to like what you like. You do you. The world would be so boring if everyone liked the same things. But attacking the cast/crew and other fans for liking something you don't agree with... that's unacceptable.

The despicable amount of hate being generated by that toxic faction is genuinely affecting people's lives as well as our enjoyment of the show. TV is supposed to be entertaining. When it comes to a point where the hate for a character/storyline is overwhelming and consuming you and you no longer enjoy it, I hope one finds the sense to step away and disengage. It must be exhausting to harbor such hatred and spew toxicity 24/7.

The point of Supergirl, the very show they're espousing to be a fan of, is to spread positivity. Yet they're doing the exact opposite. Positivity and respect moving forward is key. I like what I like, I respect what you like, and you do the same for me.

Rshcick: your friend brings up many valid concerns about today's fandoms. Can you ask if they have any advice on what to do to combat the toxicity coming out of fandoms? I know Brierrose put out some rules a few posts back but I was wondering if you friend had some other ideas.

The following was written by a good friend of mine, all credit goes to her.


I lost two Twitter friends yesterday. They both fell victim to a cancer spreading throughout social media, the cancer of the toxic fandom. It’s a vicious affliction that grows worse every day. I’ve seen it drive not only people like my friends, who enjoyed nothing more talking about their favorite shows but also writers, producers and even stars themselves from social media because of nasty and vitriolic posters. My friends found being around such actions were keeping them from having fun and being a part of a show’s online community and in one case drove one from social media altogether.

Make no mistake, I love television. I love talking about television and there is no greater place to do that these days than via social media, primarily Twitter. I have made friends all over the world on this instant medium. I longingly remember the days and was proud to be a part of a fandom of a certain show that banded together on Twitter, took on the Nielsen’s’, and earned our beloved show just one more season, and sat watching my timeline one night, tears in my eyes, as one of the stars of that show helped a young fan raise thousands of dollars for charity in a matter of hours.

While there are many great fandoms out there doing all sorts of wonderful things, sadly, I fear those type of fandom days are endangered by the toxicity prevalent in fandoms of many shows today. Just what makes a toxic fandom? Many things. For one, more and more people are posting without thinking of the consequences of their words. Now more than ever we should pause and look at what we’ve written before hitting send.

Today, there is rarely just a single group of fans any more, talking about their favorite show, debating what they liked and didn’t like with civil discourse. Now days a show’s fans are likely to be divided into warring factions fighting for dominance – this group hates one character, that group hates another, this character or actor’s not getting enough or too much screen time, and the poor writers, actors and producers get caught in the middle of the battles marked with vicious attacks, name calling, and scathing negativity.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being passionate about a show you love, however there is a difference between being passionate and crossing a line into toxicity. More and more are posting without thinking of the consequences of their words, when now more than ever we should pause and look at what we’ve written before hitting send.

It’s fine to tell a writer/producer or show runner you don’t like or care for a storyline or a certain character, what’s toxic is constantly bombarding them with hate filled tweets like, “kill this character” or “I hate this character” EVERY time they’re on line or anytime that character is mentioned in an article about the show. That goes way beyond overkill. Often posts like these cross the line from voicing displeasure to become whining, teeth-gnashing rants that sadly, at times, devolve into nasty bullying, name-calling or personal attacks.

Unfortunately, one of the fallacies of social media is its immediacy, and when a star or executive doesn’t respond to one of thousands of tweets or messages they likely receive daily in a timely fashion or with the answer the fan wants to hear, they’re often greeted with anger or vitriol. That fan may choose to respond like a petulant child because they believe they are entitled to a response. Just because someone is on Twitter does not mean you are entitled to a response or to attack or insult them just because they don’t respond to you. Remember, they don’t have to be there at all, they’re there because they choose to be, often taking the time after a long hard day on set or doing promotion for their show, or taking time away from their families to talk to fans. When they do choose to respond, they deserve to be treated with courtesy and respect.

The writers, producers, directors, and actors on any show on television work extremely long, difficult hours to bring episodes to our television or computer screens. And no matter how long, or how hard they work to bring us the best possible episodes of our favorite shows they will not please everyone with every episode. Many fans often forget that people associated with these shows take time out of their very busy lives, away from their families to come onto social media to talk to them, because like anyone, they enjoy hearing if they’ve done a good job or not.

Toxic fan actions aren’t just limited to those directly involved with a show, I’ve seen it directed at the entertainment media that covers those shows. I’ve had colleagues threatened, and insulted; message board comments filled with hate filled rants and more because they wrote something that dared to be opposite of what that fan may think. This is toxic.

Suddenly, it’s wrong to have an opinion different from a group who believe they are right beyond all discussion. Simply put, they’re right, you’re wrong all the time, because you don’t agree with them or believe as they do. And if you do disagree with them, and god forbid you post it anywhere, that’s when the most toxic of a group will band together with personal attacks and name calling.

Having been on the receiving end of attacks like this on more than one occasion, I completely understand why so many stars, writers and producers are disappearing from social media. Given the scale of the attacks I endured I can’t imagine what they must see every day.

I realize that by writing this I am opening myself up to more attacks. The reality is, that by writing this I hope to shine a light on the cancer of the toxic fandom, groups that I have watched tear apart great fandoms for many shows in recent years.

I know there are many great fans and great fandoms out there. It’s time to cut this cancer from social media and take back fandoms ripped to pieces by a toxic fandom. It’s time to #TakeBackOurFandom.

Oh and on the note of the Kevin Smith twitter incident from yesterday, the man went out of his way and responded to a hateful tweet. He was not tagged in the original tweet by the op, so how he found the tweet...who knows. The response he got from angry twitter fans yesterday is all on him. I'm not sure what he expected to happen by responding to hate tweets; he literally put himself in that ridiculous situation.

That being said, I'm not advocating for those initial disgusting tweets, but I am saying that he should have never given them the attention they clearly seek.

kevin smith has 3.22 million followers on twitter. so if you post pic of himpic I am sure he would be alerted. And since he is huge fans of both AK and Joss he was like thats all I needed to do was like Mon-EL?
his reply

reply from the original poster

and Kevin's reply to that

so it wasnt exactly like he decided to pick a fight with someone, the hate came his way.

Alerted by who exactly? Twitter only alerts you if you're tagged/mentioned, and he wasn't. So I guess someone else tagged him. He could have very well ignored it. He knew that tweet wasn't meant as a good thing to that op but he decided to engage with them regardless. Why? Nothing good was going to come of it for him. I don't think he realized what he was getting himself in to.

If you as a person see something online about yourself you either ignore it and move on or you address it. He chose to address it. He may not have decided to 'pick a fight' but he did decide to involve himself with those crazies. And looking at those tweets under his replies, a lot of them aren't hate directed at him but at what's happening in the show. The original tweets are disgusting (as I've already stated) but if you take a look at the replies, that hate isn't directed at him but the rather the show.

Oh and on the note of the Kevin Smith twitter incident from yesterday, the man went out of his way and responded to a hateful tweet. He was not tagged in the original tweet by the op, so how he found the tweet...who knows. The response he got from angry twitter fans yesterday is all on him. I'm not sure what he expected to happen by responding to hate tweets; he literally put himself in that ridiculous situation.

That being said, I'm not advocating for those initial disgusting tweets, but I am saying that he should have never given them the attention they clearly seek.

kevin smith has 3.22 million followers on twitter. so if you post pic of him I am sure he would be alerted by someone. And since he is huge fans of both AK and Joss he was like thats all I needed to do was like Mon-EL?
his reply

reply from the original poster

and Kevin's reply to that

so it wasnt exactly like he decided to pick a fight with someone, the hate came his way.

I'm going to very cautiously dip my toe into this thread. I'm not on twitter only FB and have had to drop out of every group but this one and the shows official group because I just couldn't take the horrible things I was reading. I don't consider myself a shipper of any sort, because of this I won't use shipper names. I don't personally see abuse in Kara/Mon-El's relationship. They both acted childish at times but she gave as good as she got in thier arguments. She almost used Daxamite in a derogatory way several times. If you see abuse in thier arguments I won't try to convince you otherwise. I have never found success in trying to change someone's opinion over the internet, that's hard enough to do in person.

We need to change the perception of Supergirl fans from being the worst. If we don't do that we're going to see more negative effects on the show we all profess to love. Directors are going to decline the opportunity to work on the show after what happened to Kevin Smith. Writers are going to look for jobs on different shows to avoid being harassed. Actors are going to think twice about taking parts after what happened to Rahul Kohli. Katie could have decided she didn't want to be a regular after what happened with her brother and we should consider ourselves lucky she didn't.

I want to propose some rules of fandom that I hope all factions can agree on.
1) It's never ever ok to engage in or call for violence of any sort.
2) It's never ok to engage or involve a family member of anyone who works on the show.
3) Personal lives are off limits.
4) Recognize that actors have absolutely no say in the characters they play or the storyline. Harassment will not help your opinion be heard, it will do just the opposite and cause the actors to stop interacting with all fans.
5) Like the actors directors have no say in the storyline.
6) Writers have very little to do with the overall storyline and aren't allowed to change the season arcs.
7) Twitter and other social media sites are not the place to express your opinions to the producers. If you disagree with a character or storyline. Write an actual thoughtful letter to them or the network.

If you are a member of a particular group and see another member of that group violating the above rules you have a responsibility to stand up and let them know what they are doing is wrong. Let then know that thier opinion isn't inherently wrong, and if you do that you agree. But that you disagree with they manor they are expressing it and that you don't appreciate them giving your group a bad reputation as well as making your entire group seem "crazy".

Thank you Brierrose for "dipping your toe" into the thread, it's not an easy one to get into. I actually really like your rules. I think they make sense and are formed from practicality and common sense. I hope that folks consider them and maybe adopt them in their respective groups!

I want to propose some rules of fandom that I hope all factions can agree on.
1) It's never ever ok to engage in or call for violence of any sort.
2) It's never ok to engage or involve a family member of anyone who works on the show.
3) Personal lives are off limits.
4) Recognize that actors have absolutely no say in the characters they play or the storyline. Harassment will not help your opinion be heard, it will do just the opposite and cause the actors to stop interacting with all fans.
5) Like the actors directors have no say in the storyline.
6) Writers have very little to do with the overall storyline and aren't allowed to change the season arcs.
7) Twitter and other social media sites are not the place to express your opinions to the producers. If you disagree with a character or storyline. Write an actual thoughtful letter to them or the network.

If you are a member of a particular group and see another member of that group violating the above rules you have a responsibility to stand up and let them know what they are doing is wrong. Let then know that thier opinion isn't inherently wrong, and if you do that you agree. But that you disagree with they manor they are expressing it and that you don't appreciate them giving your group a bad reputation as well as making your entire group seem "crazy".

Those are all great 'rules' for fandom conduct. I think most of us here on this site abide by them already, it's the people out their in twitter-land that need to be put in place. I've seen quite a few shippers trying to reign in their crazed fans but most of the time it's to no avail. I think whenever we see hate we should not only call out that person but also put forth some extra love and support to whoever the hate was being directed at.

I'm going to very cautiously dip my toe into this thread. I'm not on twitter only FB and have had to drop out of every group but this one and the shows official group because I just couldn't take the horrible things I was reading. I don't consider myself a shipper of any sort, because of this I won't use shipper names. I don't personally see abuse in Kara/Mon-El's relationship. They both acted childish at times but she gave as good as she got in thier arguments. She almost used Daxamite in a derogatory way several times. If you see abuse in thier arguments I won't try to convince you otherwise. I have never found success in trying to change someone's opinion over the internet, that's hard enough to do in person.

We need to change the perception of Supergirl fans from being the worst. If we don't do that we're going to see more negative effects on the show we all profess to love. Directors are going to decline the opportunity to work on the show after what happened to Kevin Smith. Writers are going to look for jobs on different shows to avoid being harassed. Actors are going to think twice about taking parts after what happened to Rahul Kohli. Katie could have decided she didn't want to be a regular after what happened with her brother and we should consider ourselves lucky she didn't.

I want to propose some rules of fandom that I hope all factions can agree on.
1) It's never ever ok to engage in or call for violence of any sort.
2) It's never ok to engage or involve a family member of anyone who works on the show.
3) Personal lives are off limits.
4) Recognize that actors have absolutely no say in the characters they play or the storyline. Harassment will not help your opinion be heard, it will do just the opposite and cause the actors to stop interacting with all fans.
5) Like the actors directors have no say in the storyline.
6) Writers have very little to do with the overall storyline and aren't allowed to change the season arcs.
7) Twitter and other social media sites are not the best place to express your opinions to the producers. If you disagree with a character or storyline, write an actual thoughtful letter to them or the network.

If you are a member of a particular group and see another member of that group violating the above rules you have a responsibility to stand up and let them know what they are doing is wrong. Let them know that thier opinion isn't inherently wrong, and if you do that you agree. But that you disagree with the manor they are expressing it and that you don't appreciate them giving your group a bad reputation as well as making your entire group seem "crazy".

You are right Kelly. I agree with every word. There is nothing abusive or toxic about Mon-El or karamel. Its the SC fandom people that is abusive and toxic. If they really think what they think then they must have a problem with many couples on tv shows. We are talking all shows here and Movies and characters like My name here Starlord, Tony Stark, Bond, jaime from Outlander. Hell i could go on and on here.
We also have evidence of how toxic they are from Leanne The panel speaker at SDCC and known to champion Kara and Mon-El relationship. And she got hate for that from SC fandom. Thats not right.

Rahul Kohli from iZombie who guest starred on SG in s2 said in a video interview that SC fandom are toxic and hooligans.

Yesterday Kevin Smith got the taste from them as well on Twitter.

David disabled the comments on Instagram of a pic with Chris because he is afraid of this toxic side of the fandom is leaving hate upon hate. That is just so much wrong in their behavior. Its vile and toxic

Now i also even believe Katie see it herself as well. Its no accident Melissa posted that Katie took the pic of Chris, Mehcad and David. It was to show Katie likes Chris and i am sure they had an understanding to post this. But instead some of them again showed their toxic side. Its sad to see Katie coming on the show brings such vile people with her. I think this is also the sole reason she is not on any social media. She knows how toxic her fans are.
I just had to say something to side with Kelly on this she is one of the many that also is beginning to see how SC fandom are

Starlord: first and foremost I'm glad you've edited your original post from the last thread about 'straight' couples. I'm guessing you realized how that made you sound, no?

Ahh yes only ONE part of this huge fandom is toxic. This whole fandom is going down in flames it seems. I've already provided a link showing some of the nasty karamel shippers, take a look.

We've all agreed that those people who attacked Rahul are awful. There's no denying it. And I don't think anyone has tried to deny it. But you cannot (as the Admin has said more than once) blame an entire group on the actions of some.

The Kevin Smith situation is a tricky one to discuss. He literally went out of his way to interact with the hate being indirectly tweeted about him. I'm not advocating for those tweets but the man should have never given them any attention. He put himself in a situation where nothing good would come of it.

As for Katie, we can speculate on why she doesn't have social media. But if you really want to know, she has stated in past interviews that she doesn't trust herself to use it as she considers herself to be a notorious drunk texter. She has also stated that she doesn't think people would really care about what she has to say on a personal level. As far as present time, it's highly likely that she'll continue to avoid twitter with how things went down with her brother.

And again you're here making sweeping generalizations on behalf of an entire group solely based on the actions of the few vocal ones within said group. Can you please take a look at what you're saying and what everyone else is saying..even Kelly (who you 100% agree with) understands that the actions of the few do not reflect the many.

Both sides, all sides, everyone one would seem to be behaving in a way that passionately defends their side. That seems like human nature. But if I had to sum it up this is what I see:

There is a side that feels the character of Mon-El is bad. Bad for Kara, bad influence, and they have gathered evidence to support their argument. I can't argue that. Makes sense. You can question the motives behind thoses determinations. Is it to remove him as an obstacle so Kara can have another love interest? Possibly. There are all sorts of motives. None is wrong.

On the other hand there is a group that likes Mon-El and believes that because his character is romantically tied to Kara they have a righteous power to protect him against all others. No one can touch him. James, Lena, Cat or whomever.

Now, both sides have made errors in my opinion. And let me be clear, not all are doing it, it's just some bad apples on the sides.

Here's where I get concerned, it's affecting the actors, showrunners, and crew. And not affecting them in terms of positive change. More like the whole fandom is being painted as bad apples and the fans' access to the actors and crew is being diminished.

Standing up for what you believe in is an important step in being American I believe, however there are ways of doing it right and doing it wrong.

Supergirl in the end is a product, developed by a business and designed to sell advertisements. That's it. It isn't going to cure cancer, it isn't going to change politics, and it isn't going to "fix" the country (if you feel that it needs fixing).

The truth is, Supergirl is left leaning because a market study showed that it wouldn't hurt the overall numbers. Furthermore arguments about "queer-bating" and what not are again all calculated and measured. There isn't a single decision made on any TV show that isn't taking into account the bottom line and that is $$$.

TV shows only affect social change because the advertising companies are willing to buy the ad spots. When Supergirl came to the CW it's ad costs went up by a huge percentage.

All the letter writing, campaigning and booing at conventions is going to do is push access to the celebrities further away. Even a PR nightmare like the 100 had with the Clexa thing ended up going nowhere because the numbers remained.

I think at this point I am digressing. What I really want more than all of this is to have the polite and well reasoned discourse again that this site is known for. I want us all to remember that we are fans of a show and we don't need to agree on everything but we can still be fans together.

All good points.

One thing I would like to add is that even thought I am a SC shipper, I don't think that Kara/Lena will ever be together. Even if Monel left there would just be someone else. The most important relationship on the show is Kara and Alex. In my opinion, Monel is disrespectful to Kara and doesn't listen to her.

i can't agree with you more! Alex and Kara are the heart of the show! I have never seen a more beautiful and healthy example of a sister sibling relationship than on Supergirl

Several abuse victims have said that he reminds them of their abuser. You think they're all delusional?

I would not know if that were true or not for them, I don't know them personally as I stated before, if they saw that as abusive, more counseling may be needed for them...again, I don't know their situation i don't know if they have gone through any kind of counseling...they might need to watch what they are watching on TV if that bothered them that much.........I can only go by what I have experienced myself in my internships, and the people I have dealt with through that....

So what you just said is that people who are reminded of their abuse need counseling so that they don't think it's abuse. Is that right?

If what they saw on this series brought back memories of their abuse from something as innocent as this relationship was...yes, they may need some more help, or counseling.

You would disregard the experiences of abuse survivors because it doesn't fit your ideas of abuse? You, who have never been abused? That's.......I don't even have the words. You should be ashamed of yourself.

You are right Kelly. I agree with every word. There is nothing abusive or toxic about Mon-El or karamel. Its the SC fandom people that is abusive and toxic. If they really think what they think then they must have a problem with many couples on tv shows. We are talking all shows here and Movies and characters like My name here Starlord, Tony Stark, Bond, jaime from Outlander. Hell i could go on and on here.
We also have evidence of how toxic they are from Leanne The panel speaker at SDCC and known to champion Kara and Mon-El relationship. And she got hate for that from SC fandom. Thats not right.

Rahul Kohli from iZombie who guest starred on SG in s2 said in a video interview that SC fandom are toxic and hooligans.

Yesterday Kevin Smith got the taste from them as well on Twitter.

David disabled the comments on Instagram of a pic with Chris because he is afraid of this toxic side of the fandom is leaving hate upon hate. That is just so much wrong in their behavior. Its vile and toxic

Now i also even believe Katie see it herself as well. Its no accident Melissa posted that Katie took the pic of Chris, Mehcad and David. It was to show Katie likes Chris and i am sure they had an understanding to post this. But instead some of them again showed their toxic side. Its sad to see Katie coming on the show brings such vile people with her. I think this is also the sole reason she is not on any social media. She knows how toxic her fans are.
I just had to say something to side with Kelly on this she is one of the many that also is beginning to see how SC fandom are

There's another post on here talking about the toxicity KM shippers have displayed. I suggest you read it and stop pretending your side are angels.

Both sides, all sides, everyone one would seem to be behaving in a way that passionately defends their side. That seems like human nature. But if I had to sum it up this is what I see:

There is a side that feels the character of Mon-El is bad. Bad for Kara, bad influence, and they have gathered evidence to support their argument. I can't argue that. Makes sense. You can question the motives behind thoses determinations. Is it to remove him as an obstacle so Kara can have another love interest? Possibly. There are all sorts of motives. None is wrong.

On the other hand there is a group that likes Mon-El and believes that because his character is romantically tied to Kara they have a righteous power to protect him against all others. No one can touch him. James, Lena, Cat or whomever.

Now, both sides have made errors in my opinion. And let me be clear, not all are doing it, it's just some bad apples on the sides.

Here's where I get concerned, it's affecting the actors, showrunners, and crew. And not affecting them in terms of positive change. More like the whole fandom is being painted as bad apples and the fans' access to the actors and crew is being diminished.

Standing up for what you believe in is an important step in being American I believe, however there are ways of doing it right and doing it wrong.

Supergirl in the end is a product, developed by a business and designed to sell advertisements. That's it. It isn't going to cure cancer, it isn't going to change politics, and it isn't going to "fix" the country (if you feel that it needs fixing).

The truth is, Supergirl is left leaning because a market study showed that it wouldn't hurt the overall numbers. Furthermore arguments about "queer-bating" and what not are again all calculated and measured. There isn't a single decision made on any TV show that isn't taking into account the bottom line and that is $$$.

TV shows only affect social change because the advertising companies are willing to buy the ad spots. When Supergirl came to the CW it's ad costs went up by a huge percentage.

All the letter writing, campaigning and booing at conventions is going to do is push access to the celebrities further away. Even a PR nightmare like the 100 had with the Clexa thing ended up going nowhere because the numbers remained.

I think at this point I am digressing. What I really want more than all of this is to have the polite and well reasoned discourse again that this site is known for. I want us all to remember that we are fans of a show and we don't need to agree on everything but we can still be fans together.

Several abuse victims have said that he reminds them of their abuser. You think they're all delusional?

I would not know if that were true or not for them, I don't know them personally as I stated before, if they saw that as abusive, more counseling may be needed for them...again, I don't know their situation i don't know if they have gone through any kind of counseling...they might need to watch what they are watching on TV if that bothered them that much.........I can only go by what I have experienced myself in my internships, and the people I have dealt with through that....

So what you just said is that people who are reminded of their abuse need counseling so that they don't think it's abuse. Is that right?

If what they saw on this series brought back memories of their abuse from something as innocent as this relationship was...yes, they may need some more help, or counseling.

Several abuse victims have said that he reminds them of their abuser. You think they're all delusional?

I would not know if that were true or not for them, I don't know them personally as I stated before, if they saw that as abusive, more counseling may be needed for them...again, I don't know their situation i don't know if they have gone through any kind of counseling...they might need to watch what they are watching on TV if that bothered them that much.........I can only go by what I have experienced myself in my internships, and the people I have dealt with through that....

So what you just said is that people who are reminded of their abuse need counseling so that they don't think it's abuse. Is that right?

Littlestar, don't bother trying to reason with Kelly. These people can be confronted with all the evidence in the world and they'll still turn a blind eye because he's a hot white man. Let it go.

That is hysterical...but honestly, thank you for being honest with how you feel about it. Seriously... Keep it coming....