The State of the Supergirl Fandom

Okay... to add another perspective (personal experience):

In India, there are a number of films where mlm relationships or gay men are played for laughs. There used to be award shows where these two popular actors would jump around the stage with hands on each others waist. Then, the maid would come in and act all shocked... and then, there would be an entire scene on the parents feeling shocked. Every moment is filled with audience laughing. Laughing because that is what a relationship between two men are worth.

The singing, especially, Mehcad standing up and doing that dance number, reminded me of that. It was a visceral reaction. I mean, I got why Jeremy said the whole "they are just friends" thing and I was amused slightly at first. But, then, it stretched on... and other folks joined in and Mehcad danced... and well, I started feeling nauseated.

I think it was a call back in my mind to all those times (personally and on screen) when LGBT folks are played for laughs. (My first real exposure to homosexuality was, a girl I had a crush on and her friend laughing about two girls committing suicide because they were in love and the parents were looking for a marriage for one of the girls. I was 17. Didn't really understand what they were saying because I didn't know there are girls who loved girls or boys loved boys. But, yet, somehow I identified with it, and felt so bad about it... that I am pretty sure it had a strong effect (among other things) on how long I took to identify myself as gay. I finally gave in only at 30*--a few years back.)

I do understand that Jeremy didn't mean to be homophobic. In fact, I never thought he or any of the cast are. And, yeah, they naturally (because they are straight), don't know the extent to which certain things can call back certain moments and cause pain to people. And honestly, whether you are gay or straight, POC or white, I don't think you can ever go through life without making such mistakes. Such is life.

When you find that you have hurt someone, all you can do is apologise. That way all sides can grow. People who inadvertently hurt can know something about the other person's personal journey and experience. And the person who was hurt can know that the other person never had the thought that you attributed to him. Jeremy did that. And I am happy about that.

And... I am sad that folks sent horrible comments to him--a reasonable note that he hurt LGBT folks, yes...because honestly, ignorance is nobody's friend here. But, nothing and nobody deserves hateful comments. And really, even from an activism POV (if you don't care about the actor's feelings, which is understandable if you are emotionally wrung up over what happened), all it does is muddle the issue because then it becomes about the hateful comments and bullying. If people think sending hateful comments is LGBT friendly or they are doing the community or themselves a service, in my opinion, they are not. All they are doing is hurting the community and fogging the issue. To be honest though, I don't think LGBT activists or any activist do that either.

*I now feel like an old woman.

Liking these last few posts by Fedguy and DraftingDrafter.

I can't say I face any prejudices that you both face. I'm a straight male. I'm off-white (I say that, jokingly, because I'm not exactly white, but I don't know what my heritage is).

Only prejudice I've faced is that I'm short. Like, REALLY short, for a guy. So yeah, I can't say I know what it's like to face racial prejudice, or against sexual orientation. And I can never pretend that I know what you each go through.

But one thing I will say, and it may or may not apply to Jeremy's situation, is this:

Because I don't face those challenges, I sometimes don't realize that something I've said, that has absolutely no ill will behind it, was offensive to somebody. This might be the case with Jeremy. While a LGBT supporter, he is not LGBT, so he may not have realized the impact it would have on that community.

But he made an apology, afterwards. And when I make a mistake like that, I try to do the same.

On the flip side, I think the offended person or people should make an attempt to realize that the comment, whether in this situation or in others like it, may not have had negative intentions behind it. We need to use those opportunities, and instead of being outraged and spewing threats, explain why something may have been offensive to the person involved. And if they apologize, I think we need to do our best to accept that apology.

We're going beyond this situation with Jeremy, at this point, but I just think it was a good example.

When it comes to shipping, I've just never personally understood how some people can take it so very seriously. And I think this might apply to Jeremy's situation, as well. The important part is that he tried to make some sort of amends.

So while people need to try to be more cognizant of what they are saying in the moment, I also think that people need to recognize when something was genuinely said with ill intent, versus when it was said without knowing the extent of the impact it would have.

Regardless, I think everyone here (at least those still online) recognize that the online reaction was extreme, compared to the situation.

Excellent post kdogg87. I feel like all of our opinions and feelings on this situation have sort of boiled down to this: it was a joke of no ill intent that inadvertently offended fans and he apologized for it, The backlash has gotten out of control, but over the past few hours I've seen lots of people on social media trying to douse the flames.

If it makes you feel better I'm pretty short too xD

Liking these last few posts by Fedguy and DraftingDrafter.

I can't say I face any prejudices that you both face. I'm a straight male. I'm off-white (I say that, jokingly, because I'm not exactly white, but I don't know what my heritage is).

Only prejudice I've faced is that I'm short. Like, REALLY short, for a guy. So yeah, I can't say I know what it's like to face racial prejudice, or against sexual orientation. And I can never pretend that I know what you each go through.

But one thing I will say, and it may or may not apply to Jeremy's situation, is this:

Because I don't face those challenges, I sometimes don't realize that something I've said, that has absolutely no ill will behind it, was offensive to somebody. This might be the case with Jeremy. While a LGBT supporter, he is not LGBT, so he may not have realized the impact it would have on that community.

But he made an apology, afterwards. And when I make a mistake like that, I try to do the same.

On the flip side, I think the offended person or people should make an attempt to realize that the comment, whether in this situation or in others like it, may not have had negative intentions behind it. We need to use those opportunities, and instead of being outraged and spewing threats, explain why something may have been offensive to the person involved. And if they apologize, I think we need to do our best to accept that apology.

We're going beyond this situation with Jeremy, at this point, but I just think it was a good example.

When it comes to shipping, I've just never personally understood how some people can take it so very seriously. And I think this might apply to Jeremy's situation, as well. The important part is that he tried to make some sort of amends.

So while people need to try to be more cognizant of what they are saying in the moment, I also think that people need to recognize when something was genuinely said with ill intent, versus when it was said without knowing the extent of the impact it would have.

Regardless, I think everyone here (at least those still online) recognize that the online reaction was extreme, compared to the situation.

I am also genuinely sorry for what you face. I hope for the day you are surrounded by the respect you deserve. In response to that just then, my take is, if the character really isn't asian, then he said nothing wrong really.

Thank you, I hope the same for you (and for any other members on this site who experience prejudices in their day to day lives).

I agree, what he said isn't wrong. But what he said isn't the issue, it's the manner in which he said it that is the issue (I'm sure there are some shippers who are pissed about what he said but shippers are a whole other topic). LGBT viewers don't care about what he said, we know they're just friends (and there's nothing wrong with that); we take issue with the mockery he made of a wlw fanon ship, that's it.

The amount of hate he's getting is ridiculous at this point The man has apologized twice now, with the second apology being quite heartfelt. I've forgiven him. Many have. People do dumb stuff all the time, but they learn from their mistakes and move on as Jeremy seems to have.

I am also genuinely sorry for what you face. I hope for the day you are surrounded by the respect you deserve. In response to that just then, my take is, if the character really isn't asian, then he said nothing wrong really.

Granted, I am not able to see this from the view of an LGBT person. So to address what you said about seeing it from their perspective, I admit I cannot accurately reflect how that would feel. However I have been subject to my fair share of prejudice.

I am a asian person living in Australia. I encounter racial abuse almost every day. I've been called worst things imaginable. When I walk outside, it is common for people driving by to shout "get the f*** back to China." I also have autism. Yeah. So, to confidently state, combined with my own experiences and that of people in my life mocked for their race, gender identity or sexuality, I have a grasp of what marginalisation feels like.

So I will simulate myself in such a situation then. Suppose I'm watching Supergirl and there is an acute lack of asian characters. (There is, by the way. Oh and you will never find anyone with autism). Firstly I don't think I will formulate my own fan ideas to adjust to that, but, again granted, that is just me. Say I did.

Pretend enough people feel the same way, pretend enough people stood up for the lack of representation of asians (oh I wish), or people with ASD (oh boy I mega wish). Pretend we start heckling cast and writers and causing a ruckus on social media (now this I don't wish). Our particular interpretation of one aspect of the show is so famous the cast knows it. But obviously it isn't true. So, while summarising the plot, Jeremy takes a few extra seconds to clarify we aren't right. How do I feel?

I know I'm not right. Congrats, a show's plot isn't going my way. Oh goody that is an invalidation of my whole race. I should tell my mum dad and uncle, watch them tremble with outrage? How I feel about my identity shouldn't even be based on the interpreted plot of a TV show. I laugh and carry on probably.

I'm sorry for the prejudices you'v been subjected to, I know from experience that it's an awful feeling. As a bisexual Latina living in America, I've experience prejudice not only for my sexuality but for my race too.

Let's continue with your scenario. Let's make it clear that Jeremy took a few extra seconds to clarify that you aren't right. But those few extra seconds weren't just a simple "these characters aren't asian", no, these few extra seconds were repetitive " they aren't asian! they aren't asian!! THEY AREN'T ASIAN!!!". Would you really find that ok? Was all of that necessary? Were you ever under the guise that they were in fact asian?

How you would react to this situation isn't gonna represent how others would react. The LGBT community suffers from so much hate from every part of the world. And to get this tasteless joke from a show that is supposed to be pro-LGBT is messed up.

(As stated) The actions of SC has warranted them being singled out. It wasn't rude. It was a much needed clarification.

In reflection my responses are likely also influenced my my animosity towards shipping in general. I don't retract my defense of Jeremy, but, I do feel that if you are offended by this, it is probably built on unimaginable prejudice faced during everyday life, and understandable to a degree.

Outside of this particular debate, I would like to apologise on behalf of every privileged community I belong to, to any marginalised people, for a society so unfair that this kind of controversies could arise.

I just beseech that reason be seen though.

So in summary, at some point we concurred that what Jeremy said is not homophobic. Just then we also agreed fan's interpretations needs no validation.

So, given that, Jeremy stated Kara and Lena are just friends, granted, with emphasis. Also addressed the past aggression of the SC shippers have left a lasting impact on the cast, and not confined to shipping, they frequently claim that Kara and Lena are in fact romantically attracted, and therefore Jeremy emphasised that in recognised canon, they aren't, as is the right thing to do. No other shipdom has warranted such response because none were that assertive.

So....."the rudest of ways"? He sang a song with a smiling face. It is clear he was in a friendly mood. He stated a fact. If that was the rudest of ways, I dread to think of your reactions to the vast quantities of real homophobia present in reality.

The underlying issue is that Jeremy's recognition of SC wasn't necessary. It was done purely to spite those SC shippers but ended up hurting others too. You keep making it all about the ship when I keep telling you it's more than that.

Ahh yes so if someone was insulting you with a smile on their face then it's all good huh? He made it all into a big joke; that was rude. His inclusion of SC was unnecessary and to be done is such a jovial manner while simultaneously being mean is rude. I live through vast quantities of homophobia in my everyday life; this was not one of them. This was purely a hurtful thing, not homophobic.

Granted, I am not able to see this from the view of an LGBT person. So to address what you said about seeing it from their perspective, I admit I cannot accurately reflect how that would feel. However I have been subject to my fair share of prejudice.

I am a asian person living in Australia. I encounter racial abuse almost every day. I've been called worst things imaginable. When I walk outside, it is common for people driving by to shout "get the f*** back to China." I also have autism. Yeah. So, to confidently state, combined with my own experiences and that of people in my life mocked for their race, gender identity or sexuality, I have a grasp of what marginalisation feels like.

So I will simulate myself in such a situation then. Suppose I'm watching Supergirl and there is an acute lack of asian characters. (There is, by the way. Oh and you will never find anyone with autism). Firstly I don't think I will formulate my own fan ideas to adjust to that, but, again granted, that is just me. Say I did.

Pretend enough people feel the same way, pretend enough people stood up for the lack of representation of asians (oh I wish), or people with ASD (oh boy I mega wish). Pretend we start heckling cast and writers and causing a ruckus on social media (now this I don't wish). Our particular interpretation of one aspect of the show is so famous the cast knows it. But obviously it isn't true. So, while summarising the plot, Jeremy takes a few extra seconds to clarify we aren't right. How do I feel?

I know I'm not right. Congrats, a show's plot isn't going my way. Oh goody that is an invalidation of my whole race. I should tell my mum dad and uncle, watch them tremble with outrage? How I feel about my identity shouldn't even be based on the interpreted plot of a TV show. I laugh and carry on probably.

Previously....
"It's not about homophobia, it's about invalidating a part of the fan community"
Now....
"It's not about that, it's about homophobia"

Readying defenses for the loop game

Definition of homophobia: the dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people

Not once did I say that there was any form of homophobia shown. I've been stating point blank that it was a hurtful thing to do. I've never stated that what was done was because the cast doesn't like or are prejudiced against the gays.

Unfortunately, a large portion of the people who are outraged online view it as homophobia. I personally don't. Reiterating that I have no ill will towards the peaceful and respectful Supercorp shippers, I think the only reason the topic came to mind for Jeremy during the "rap" is because of that smaller-yet-extremely-vocal segment of the Supercorp shippers that have been incredibly disrespectful. The people who have sent death threats to Chris, and harassed Rahul for for the ONE episode he did. That's the subgroup that the cast most likely associates with Supercorp most. I also think that's one of the reasons Supercorp continuously keeps coming up in interviews. I'm not Jeremy, so I can't say for sure, but I imagine that's what I imagine he was thinking of it when the joke was made.

Was the joke made in bad taste? Maybe. I didn't find it offensive, but I'm neither a shipper, nor LGBT. And I understand that I will never understand what the people of that community go through. But I've seen posts from LGBT people and Supercorp shippers defending Jeremy against the seemingly disproportionate backlash. But the less respectful minority of Supercorp has definitely left an impression, seemingly negative, with the cast. It's sad, but you can tell by the looks on their faces any time it's brought up.

And now people are harassing Melissa, saying she should apologize. From the video, I don't think she really did anything wrong.

I have absolutely nothing against Supercorp as a concept. I just unfortunately think that the group (again, due to what I believe is a very vocal minority) has a stigma attached to it, now, and even the cast is aware of it. It's a shame that a ship, any ship, has gotten to that point.

In the end, I think it was joke, with no ill will behind it. He realized soon after the impact of it, and tried to apologize. I also think it has been blown WAY out of proportion.

I too don't see it as homophobia. The joke was made in bad taste. Naturally you wouldn't find it offensive as it isn't something that would offend you. I on the other hand found hurt in it, but that's because this is something I've gone through with other fandoms. For once I was glad I wasn't a shipper as I know from experience that nothing good comes from shipping non-canon f/f ships. But I never would've thought something like this would happen. People were so concerned with a fan being disrespectful at comic con but instead we got some of the cast being disrespectful to some of the fans.

We've gone over how awful those SC shippers have been. But to punish the entire SC fandom by outright mocking them is insensitive. It's unfortunate that this has happened, but how was it fair to those fans who aren't jerks to the cast/writers? Why is it ok to make them feel less than for wanting some more f/f rep all because some other fans ruined things for them? It isn't.

I agree that it was meant as a joke. But it was a joke that fell flat. It was a bad joke whose punchline was the lgbt viewer audience. It was a bad joke that was apologized for twice now. And this bad joke caused hurt in a community that is regularly plagued by hate, so the reaction has reached a critical high because of it.

So in summary, at some point we concurred that what Jeremy said is not homophobic. Just then we also agreed fan's interpretations needs no validation.

So, given that, Jeremy stated Kara and Lena are just friends, granted, with emphasis. Also addressed the past aggression of the SC shippers have left a lasting impact on the cast, and not confined to shipping, they frequently claim that Kara and Lena are in fact romantically attracted, and therefore Jeremy emphasised that in recognised canon, they aren't, as is the right thing to do. No other shipdom has warranted such response because none were that assertive.

So....."the rudest of ways"? He sang a song with a smiling face. It is clear he was in a friendly mood. He stated a fact. If that was the rudest of ways, I dread to think of your reactions to the vast quantities of real homophobia present in reality.

Previously....
"It's not about homophobia, it's about invalidating a part of the fan community"
Now....
"It's not about that, it's about homophobia"

Readying defenses for the loop game

Wait so ships have to be validated now? The writers and cast needs not worry about fan interpretations of their work. Perhaps I firmly believe J'onn should hook up with Barry and Martin Stein while we're at it. Maybe I think there is a serious romantic spark between Metallo and Lilian Luthor. Maybe I think Oliver should date his arrows. Should the cast pay attention to me? Should they validate or encourage me? I wouldn't if I was the cast.

Jeremy stated a fact. Within the universe of Supergirl the show, Kara and Lena are just friends. What is wrong? I'm in luck the legions of fans of say Star Wars don't have the SuperCorp mentality, else when Daisy Ridley said Jyn and Rey have no relation there'd be a riot too. I think fans of other franchises at least understands to keep fan-fiction to fan-fiction. This is the first time I've seen a community so boldly aggressive they think their obviously non-canon interpretation should not only be respected by other shippers but the people involved with the show themselves.

Of course not. But should they be so publicly invalidated? Especially a non-canon ship that (aside from shippers) no one cares about. I'm not saying SC should've been validated, I'm saying it should've never been addressed in the first place.

Gosh you still don't get it. This isn't about the ship itself. This is about the respectful wlw viewers who were mocked in the rudest of ways. It was unnecessary. Take a look outside of the fandom and see what the LGBT community is saying about it. Look at this from their perspective. Stop falling back on to the shipping part of it as that isn't the issue here.

Apparently Jeremy Jordan posts a couple of messages on his instagram, probably related to this.

There were several accusations made today that it WAS an attack on the LGBTQ's sexuality. I'm not going to go scrolling back through on here, because I don't want to remember who it was, but it was said he/she was made to feel "sh*tty" about their own sexuality. And on this very site, he was accused of "homophobic comments."

ALL throughout social media, ESPECIALLY under his apology posts, he was told he was a homophobe. I even posted in this thread one such comment I screen-shoted. if anyone would like to review...scroll on down.

This is the very reason we've all been responding the way we have--defending Jeremy and cast for not being homophobic and that he was not attacking the LGBTQ community. Mel and Chris are now being "counter-attacked" with they are immoral and cheaters.

I would hate to think that now, after realizing he has always been an advocate for the community, now the argument is being changed to "he attacked a shipdom!"

Actually it has become very clear and simple. Others and I have said various things which summed together, definitively demonstrates why it is not an attack on sexuality in what should be a logically infallible way. I used to self victimise a lot too, thinking everything is an attack on a group I belong to. Sometimes obviously such worries are well warranted, but in this case frankly there is no way you can make this into homophobia.

This was never the case of homophobia. This was a case of invalidating a large portion of their viewer audience. This was a case of mocking and dismissing a segment of the fandom. For a show that prides itself on being LGBT positive, this was absolutely insensitive

Unfortunately, a large portion of the people who are outraged online view it as homophobia. I personally don't. Reiterating that I have no ill will towards the peaceful and respectful Supercorp shippers, I think the only reason the topic came to mind for Jeremy during the "rap" is because of that smaller-yet-extremely-vocal segment of the Supercorp shippers that have been incredibly disrespectful. The people who have sent death threats to Chris, and harassed Rahul for for the ONE episode he did. That's the subgroup that the cast most likely associates with Supercorp most. I also think that's one of the reasons Supercorp continuously keeps coming up in interviews. I'm not Jeremy, so I can't say for sure, but I imagine that's what I imagine he was thinking of it when the joke was made.

Was the joke made in bad taste? Maybe. I didn't find it offensive, but I'm neither a shipper, nor LGBT. And I understand that I will never understand what the people of that community go through. But I've seen posts from LGBT people and Supercorp shippers defending Jeremy against the seemingly disproportionate backlash. But the less respectful minority of Supercorp has definitely left an impression, seemingly negative, with the cast. It's sad, but you can tell by the looks on their faces any time it's brought up.

And now people are harassing Melissa, saying she should apologize. From the video, I don't think she really did anything wrong.

I have absolutely nothing against Supercorp as a concept. I just unfortunately think that the group (again, due to what I believe is a very vocal minority) has a stigma attached to it, now, and even the cast is aware of it. It's a shame that a ship, any ship, has gotten to that point.

In the end, I think it was joke, with no ill will behind it. He realized soon after the impact of it, and tried to apologize. I also think it has been blown WAY out of proportion.

Wait so ships have to be validated now? The writers and cast needs not worry about fan interpretations of their work. Perhaps I firmly believe J'onn should hook up with Barry and Martin Stein while we're at it. Maybe I think there is a serious romantic spark between Metallo and Lilian Luthor. Maybe I think Oliver should date his arrows. Nothing wrong with thinking any of these, but naturally I cannot demand others to align their view with me or expect a cast member to declare my notions to be true. Should the cast pay attention to me? Should they validate or encourage me? I wouldn't if I was the cast.

Jeremy stated a fact. Within the universe of Supergirl the show, Kara and Lena are just friends. What is wrong? I'm in luck the legions of fans of say Star Wars don't have the SuperCorp mentality, else when Daisy Ridley said Jyn and Rey have no relation there'd be a riot too. I think fans of other franchises at least understands to keep fan-fiction to fan-fiction. This is the first time I've seen a community so boldly aggressive they think their obviously non-canon interpretation should not only be respected by other shippers but the people involved with the show themselves.