CW Crisis on Infinite Earths

With upfront coming next week and along with it the inevitable CoIE questions I thought I’d bring this thread back up. Personally I didn’t really like Elseworlds and am not particularly looking forward to CoIE. My feeling is I want it over with already so we can move on. I fear that CoIE will overshadow talks about each individual show at SDCC.

I humbly request that forum discussion about CoIE happen in this thread rather than in a more general discussion thread. I realize there will be some spillover particularly for the finale. I believe this is fair to everyone. Those who want to talk about CoIE have a clear place to do so and those who aren’t looking forward to it and/or want to limit spoilers can simply ignore it.

Hopefully the new SG writer will fight for more respect of SG. However, be ready because this is Arrow's Swan Song, so be ready for it to be the Arrow show much like its 10 episode a few years back during the crosdover....characters from way back will get their time as well....SOOOOO SG will get the shaft again.

Yeah. It can't really be denied that Supergirl always gets shafted in the crossovers. I'm hoping she gets more focus, considering how she was one of the key players in the comic iteration of CoIE.

The REALLY sad part, though? Despite how small her role was in Elseworlds, I feel like we got more Supergirl in that than we did in a handful of her own episodes in season 4...

Off topic, but once Batwoman is up and running, I'd love some solo crossovers between her and Supergirl.

I dont think she got shafted in the 2017 crossover, she was the central figure in that...I think she was totally left out of the Elseworld crossover....bringing in Superman was a ratings grab that did nothing to up the ratings, it just ticked off Supergirl fans because there was no need for him to be there other than for ratings. You already had a Super there.....use her.

I think Kara's benching in Invasion was mainly due to Marc Guggenheim, who wanted Arrow's 100th episode to be a celebration of Arrow. I can't blame him, to be honest, but it did make for a very uneven series. I did find it interesting that Flash's 100th episode (which did NOT fall during the crossover) wasn't nearly as much a celebration of that show as Arrow's was.

Crisis on Earth-X was the only one they've done so far that was really "let's take everyone and make a movie." Plus, they had Victor Garber's departure from the show as part of it, and Stein's death scene was magnificently well done. Yes, they nerfed Supergirl by strapping her to that table, but Melissa was also pulling double-duty and Overgirl was, in my memory, a much bigger part of that show than evil Ollie was.

Elseworlds, I think they decided they can't physically or logistically do a CoEX level event every year, so they simplified a bit. CoIE, on the other hand, I actually think deserves more than 4 or 5 episodes (if they fold in Black Lightning, and who doesn't want to see the Pierce family lined up with everyone else?) if they do it right. To be honest, my biggest question right now is, what's the Anti-Monitor going to look like? (Sorry, Marv Wolfman, that's the worst throwaway villain name ever.) And will they manage to work in a cameo by David Mazouz and Camren Bicondova, sitting in a cafe in Florence?

Emily is doing a Broadway play right now, so maybe that was it?

I really thought that was weird as well. If it was $$$ I highly doubt she is making in the play what she was making per episode. But, I really have no clue on those things, just don't see that happening. So her wanting more $$$ possibly for the final 10 eps and them not agreeing probably isn't a reason. Maybe the play is going longer than the 10 episodes? but even then, Plays in New York are an iffy business at best as far as longevity.

Just really, really weird on her part.

I don't want Supergirl's 100th episode anywhere, in anyway near the crossover. Already far too many characters in the crossover. I want her 100th all Supergirl.

Amen, sista!!

I'm not really looking forward to the100th episode. The milestone is impressive, but the previous shows'attempts to celebrate it were of decidedly mixed quality. I would be happy if they treat it mostly as a normal episode.

Amell has said he may not die in Crisis....so who knows.

Maybe he traded his future, not his life

I agree with Argo about the change in writers, which was why I'm excited they brought in Jay Faerber.

Oliver, Barry, and Kara are the TV trinity and I can see them and Superman taking the leadership role during the Crisis.

I agree with Argo about the change in writers, which was why I'm excited they brought in Jay Faerber.

Oliver, Barry, and Kara are the TV trinity and I can see them and Superman taking the leadership role during the Crisis.

I dont see the need for Superman, anymore than I saw the need in the last crossover. You have a Super.....use her this time around.

Normally, I'd agree with you, because I love the emphasis on Supergirl. But Superman and Supergirl are both absolutely crucial to this story, even in the comics. I think Superman needs to be involved. That's not to say they should backburner Supergirl for it. But it's a multiverse ending threat. He needs to be there. As a fan of the source material this story is based on, Superman NEEDS to be there, alongside Supergirl and The Flash.

Crisis on Infinite Earths will only be made into a live action story ONCE. In our lifetime, at least. As such, I want him included because I want it to be as faithful as can be.

I agree with Argo about the change in writers, which was why I'm excited they brought in Jay Faerber.

Oliver, Barry, and Kara are the TV trinity and I can see them and Superman taking the leadership role during the Crisis.

I dont see the need for Superman, anymore than I saw the need in the last crossover. You have a Super.....use her this time around.

Normally, I'd agree with you, because I love the emphasis on Supergirl. But Superman and Supergirl are both absolutely crucial to this story, even in the comics. I think Superman needs to be involved. That's not to say they should backburner Supergirl for it. But it's a multiverse ending threat. He needs to be there. As a fan of the source material this story is based on, Superman NEEDS to be there, alongside Supergirl and The Flash.

Crisis on Infinite Earths will only be made into a live action story ONCE. In our lifetime, at least. As such, I want him included because I want it to be as faithful as can be.

If I believed the writers will do a better job of not sidelining SG and using SM instead? I would be all for it....I do not believe that will happen.

I agree with Argo about the change in writers, which was why I'm excited they brought in Jay Faerber.

Oliver, Barry, and Kara are the TV trinity and I can see them and Superman taking the leadership role during the Crisis.

I dont see the need for Superman, anymore than I saw the need in the last crossover. You have a Super.....use her this time around.

Normally, I'd agree with you, because I love the emphasis on Supergirl. But Superman and Supergirl are both absolutely crucial to this story, even in the comics. I think Superman needs to be involved. That's not to say they should backburner Supergirl for it. But it's a multiverse ending threat. He needs to be there. As a fan of the source material this story is based on, Superman NEEDS to be there, alongside Supergirl and The Flash.

Crisis on Infinite Earths will only be made into a live action story ONCE. In our lifetime, at least. As such, I want him included because I want it to be as faithful as can be.

If I believed the writers will do a better job of not sidelining SG and using SM instead? I would be all for it....I do not believe that will happen.

In fairness...Supergirl getting sidelined wasn't just a problem in Elseworlds. It was a problem, this season, overall, as we've both discussed, several times, in the main threads regarding this season. But yes. I think they could have easily have had Supergirl fighting Dark Superman. Would have been easier to shoot, as well, as you wouldn't have needed Tyler in the dual role for as much time. Then, they could have had Superman come in at the very end, to help in a reduced role, just as Brainy, J'onn, and Lois did.

Yes, the fear isn't that Kara wouldn't have any physical fight in crisis. My fear is that her role would be devalued to prop up Arrow.

To take away her sacrifice and give it away to Oliver, would be wrong.

I hope it'd be as Kdogg says and we would get Kara back in a reboot with one earth, but they would still get the respect they deserve. I'd also not mind if we spend a couple of episodes trying to bring back Kara and then have Kara deal with the repercussions of being brought back to life.

Or, us having some change of character etc. so that Kara (and Melissa) has to manage that dynamic.

But, if it is something that has no impact on Supergirl and wouldn't even respect her, I'd rather she keep away.

Yes, the fear isn't that Kara wouldn't have any physical fight in crisis. My fear is that her role would be devalued to prop up Arrow.

To take away her sacrifice and give it away to Oliver, would be wrong.

I hope it'd be as Kdogg says and we would get Kara back in a reboot with one earth, but they would still get the respect they deserve. I'd also not mind if we spend a couple of episodes trying to bring back Kara and then have Kara deal with the repercussions of being brought back to life.

Or, us having some change of character etc. so that Kara (and Melissa) has to manage that dynamic.

But, if it is something that has no impact on Supergirl and wouldn't even respect her, I'd rather she keep away.

My other "theory" (more of a wish, really) is that they could do this. Keep Supergirl dead for a bit, then bring her back in epic fashion for episode 100 of her series, which realistically should only be a few episodes after Crisis concludes.

Those episodes in between can still have Melissa featured. Maybe you have one with a "funeral". Maybe you have another where people in the city tell of how Supergirl saved them (told via flashback), and it becomes a Supergirl anthology style episode.

I have my own little theory, using concepts the series, itself, established back in season 1, of how her resurrection could be realistically pulled off.

These are all just theories and wishes. But I do think it would be wise to utilize how close in proximity the CoIE crossover is to Supergirl's 100th episode. They could do a lot with that.

@Brierrose, LibertyPrime, and others.

You're making it very clear what you DON'T want in CoIE. So I suppose my next question would be what do you want to see, instead? What would you do with Supergirl and other characters, so that this event still holds the impact it needs to, without those iconic scenes? I mean, it's very clear at this point that we're not going to agree about what we want from this event, and that's totally okay. Differing opinions and ideas, presented in respectful fashion, is why I love this forum. But I'm very interested in hearing what you would do instead, beyond the blankest statement of "We want more Supergirl" (which I also want). What would you do to cut those scenes and moments, but still ensure that this event carries the weight and impact that it's very name carries with it?

Also of note, I get that they used the "pose" for about 3 seconds back in season two. But to me, this event isn't about the pose from the comic cover. It's about the huge events, impacts, and character moments that lead to those iconic images.

Apologies about the excessive posts. I'm obviously really passionate about this story, and am over-the-moon that it's actually being produced.

I'm not sure I understand what u are asking....what should they do without Supergirl in the crossover, what should they do with Supergirl in the crossover????

Apologies about the excessive posts. I'm obviously really passionate about this story, and am over-the-moon that it's actually being produced.

I'm not sure I understand what u are asking....what should they do without Supergirl in the crossover, what should they do with Supergirl in the crossover????

Sorry, I'll try to clarify.

This story is famous for killing many high profile characters. Perhaps most notably are Supergirl and The Flash, in two character defining scenes where they each respectively sacrifice themselves for the greater good. These scenes are not only iconic to these 2 characters, but are also synonymous with CoIE.

I personally think these sacrifices should happen, in the crossover, because of their iconic status, even if the deaths are undone by the end of the crossover (or a few episodes later). However, many people here don't want those scenes to take place (understandably so).

So, what I'm asking of those people, is what they would do for alternative story arcs, for these 2 two characters, should those death scenes be cut. What type of alternate arc would they give Supergirl and/or Flash that cut those scenes, but still carried heavy emotional weight and impact for both characters.

Ok Kdogg now that you’ve clarified your question it helped me solidify my own position, thanks for that. My short answer is none of the above. I don’t have alternatives to Kara and Barry’s arcs from CoIE because I don’t feel the need to see the comic versions brought life with the TV characters in the first place. I might feel different with a movie but I don’t think CoIE, especially a comic accurate one, is an appropriate story to do with TV shows that are continuing.

I didn’t grow up as a “comic book person” and what I know about CoIE is it rebooted the DC universe to fix decades of continuity errors and killed a lot of characters including Kara and Barry in the process. I understand that it’s considered a pivotal moment, so totally get the iconic status for some. I want the foundation of the Supergirl and Flash shows that we have to be perfected not blown up. If they can do as LibertyPrime says use the spirit of the story to create some emotional stakes and consequences (which we already have with one show ending) then cool. I’m worried that Supergirl and Flash will be fundamentally changed for the sake upping the scale of the yearly mega crossover and to me that’s not a good reason.

I’m going to back away from this thread because it’s not meant for me but for those who are fans of the comic version of CoIE and desire some version of it on the small screen.

As I see it, Brierrose, the thread is for anyone with an interest in the crossover, comic book fan or not.

Your understanding of the original COIE is spot on, and it is something I neglected to mention, despite it informing my opinion of the upcoming adaptation.

Crisis did not happen in a vacuum. Marv Wolfman came up with the idea to simplify the multiverse and give a fresh start to the characters.

Some characters were killed off because of corporate whim, like Barry Allen. "I didn't think it was a good idea to kill The Flash but those were my marching orders, so I did the best I could to make his death as moving as I could. ... Much of the reason the people in charge didn't care for Barry Allen was that he was considered dull." (From this Wolfman interview: http://www.wtv-zone.com/silverager/interviews/wolfman.shtml)

Supergirl's death and exit from continuity happened so that Superman could be re-established as the last survivor of Krypton going forward--at least at first.

In short, the original Crisis set out to do specific things. The circumstances and problems of 1985 DC Comics are different from those of 2019 Arroweverse. Stephen Amell's pending exit is a big deal that needs to be addressed. I don't think the powers that be consider Barry "dull," when the Flash is currently sitting at the top of the CW heap.

So it only seems logical to me that the writers may have some different things in mind for the event.

My thoughts:

• I don't believe either Barry or Kara will die; their shows are too popular.
  
• I do believe Ollie will die, and that he will be the one to strike the final blow against the Anti-Monitor (the "I HAVE HAD ENOUGH!" punch that was given by the Earth-2 Superman in the original Crisis)
  
• I would like the Pierce family from Black Lightning to appear in the crossover. I don't want to mess up what BL has going on, but I want them to get to play with the others. If the Monitor springs Tobias to bring him in as well, so be it.
  
• I want the main outcome to be that Earth-1, Earth-38, and Earth-BL are merged (maybe Earth-3 as well, since it's kind of the Earth-2 of the Arrowverse). As I said, i don't want to mess with BL, but to me that can be solved with a simple "Freeland's problems can't be solved by outsiders... we need to take care of our own" type of conversation.
  

Although it could be interesting I don’t see anything even speculation that Black Lightening will be part of CoIE. CoIE is being billed as a five show crossover with Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, LoT and Batwoman. Black Lightning is a good show but IMO the vibe of it just wouldn’t work with the others. There’s also a 3000 mile logistical issue, Black Lightning films in Atlanta, Georgia and all the other shows film in Vancouver, Canada. Making these crossovers is already a logistical nightmare with everyone in the same city let’s not add in international travel.

Although it could be interesting I don’t see anything even speculation that Black Lightening will be part of CoIE. CoIE is being billed as a five show crossover with Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, LoT and Batwoman. Black Lightning is a good show but IMO the vibe of it just wouldn’t work with the others. There’s also a 3000 mile logistical issue, Black Lightning films in Atlanta, Georgia and all the other shows film in Vancouver, Canada. Making these crossovers is already a logistical nightmare with everyone in the same city let’s not add in international travel.

It'd be fun to see it as a cameo. Like a montage of several worlds fighting off the Anti-Monitor's forces, like in the comics. You could easily flash to Freeland, blanketed by red skies, as Black Lightning, Thunder, and Lightning fight off the Anti-Monitor's forces. No reason something like that couldn't happen in Georgia.

My concern with the Crisis on Infinite Earths is that I almost think they (being the producers) have put themselves into a predictable outcome. Either one of the following will most likely occur:

A). Kara and Barry will die as they did in the Comic version. But, because both are the stars of shows that are ongoing, they both will have to somehow be revived rather quickly. Which, if not done very well, will invalidate anything they did in the Crisis and will leave fans disappointed.

B). Oliver Queen will take their place and die because that show is ending and his death could be considered final. In this scenario, it will seem almost like a cop-out that Kara and Barry weren't sacrificed.

Either of these two scenarios is predictable and so, I'm not sure how they will be able to spin this to create much apprehension. Maybe it's just me (which is very possible), but I am always more interested in seeing something new, something created out of the writers imagination that will leave me on the edge of my seat, not knowing what will happen and how it will end than to see an established story that has a predictable ending.

C. Of course, none could die and in a way, that would be a complete let-down. I know, I'm hard to please.

One thing that I don't want to see happen is a merging of the universes. I like Supergirl in her own world. I haven't seen a cross-over yet that has utilized her the way she should be - she always has to be nerfed big-time and having her in the same universe with so many other superheroes will just compound that problem. Plus, it brings in the complaints of - well, why doesn't Barry come and help? or so and so?

*****

Like you, I have serious reservations about how they will handle CoIE and what it will mean once it has concluded (i.e. who lives and who dies, etc.) And, like you, I' prefer that they kept the universes separate, but since the PTB are all gung-ho for it, I'm sure it will be either a half-baked cake or a success. The proof will be when all is said and done.

We can all only watch and wait.

Are the EPs on Flash spending too much time writing a check that everyone knows won't be cashed.

This sums it up for me. It isn't that it's poorly written material. I imagine that for younger viewers, kids and early teens who haven't seen this type of thing done, it can be quite effective. But I can't feel the level of threat that they seem to want me to feel.