Supergirl Season 2: Divisive Fan Groups

And this is why the fan community such as we have here at Supergirl.tv is greatly needed. Namely, to avoid the wild extremes found in other online outlets and to provide a semblance of balance and a modicum of civilised debate. It is also a fair and free-flow exchange of ideas on a character / characters and a TV series we all love so much.

Truth be told, this conversation would be as heated - if not more so - if the same-sex relationship angle that is currently being conveyed between two female characters were male instead. The vitriol would be at a fever pitch. Nasty wouldn't even begin to cover it.

Sadly, I have also noticed that some of the posters that used to contribute to these boards on a fairly regular basis left when the Sanvers relationship came into being. They've either gone to other TV show groups and / or have stopped watching Supergirl completely. Sometimes pushing the tolerance and acceptance envelope can repel people rather than engage them in constructive dialogue and expanded thought. This isn't necessarily a personal character fault of any particular individual, but rather a social tolerance threshold.

In my modest view, the EPs, producers and writers would be well served to note the social tolerance thresholds and it would be more beneficial for them in the long run to more carefully weigh some their creative choices if the angles they are attempting to put out to the public were nudged along rather than pushed.

In any event, the EPs, producers and writers will have to grapple with this more fully and tactfully in the long run if the show wishes to retain its core viewership and not run it into the ground by appearing to appeal to / appease a particular "agenda" or get bogged down with too many side-stories.

I agree with a great deal of what has been brought forth by various posters in this thread and feel that a little more foresight and character development / follow-through by the writers, producers and EPs is required to keep the good ship Supergirl on an even storytelling keel.

As many have correctly pointed out, some of the relationships or expanded character roles in S2 have worked out well, some haven't, and some are skating on very thin plausibility ice and are testing viewers' patience. This has nothing to do with the actors, crews or their abilities, but rather the producers and writers' decision to push an all-inclusive model which the viewing public may or may not be completely receptive to. The common mantra of two steps forward and one step back comes to mind.

Nonetheless, from my perspective, as long as Supergirl's story is told and treated with a degree of fairness and honesty (which in our current world is in very short supply), it is a show worth waiting for and continuing to watch on a regular basis.

Remember, stay positive and stay constructively engaged.

The "Writer's room" on Twitter was confronted by a mom that stated she was not able to allow her kids of 10 and I believe 12 to watch Supergirl anymore because of the #Sanvers relationship. She asked how was she supposed to explain this relationship to her children when they asked....

I found that to be a question that is asked a lot on Twitter...as far as the show is concerned and the actors portraying these roles, the answer should be simple. These two people love each other.....done. Our children will take on our viewpoints no matter how right or wrong they are.

My view is really very simple, if two people love each other, who am I to say they are wrong. If they love each other shouldn't they be free to express that love like any other couple that is in love and growing in a relationship? yes.... I do not begin to understand the Biological details of any of this..... what I do know is I want people to be happy, I want people to belong, I want people to feel they belong, and I want people to be free to be themselves. That is the simplicity of it.

What I am seeing on Twitter however, is one group not even desiring to understand the other group. When I see videos posted on twitter and the statement with the video is.... "The only important scenes in Supergirl right here" and it is only the #Sanvers scenes, that is ridiculous, and I see that a lot. Or manips of some of the posters to push their agenda. That is not being inclusive, and yet they demand to be included. I want to shout to them....... I WANT YOU TO BE INCLUDED, I LOVE THAT YOU ARE BEING INCLUDED, I LOVE MAGGIE AND ALEX'S RELATIONSHIP. It is such a cool relationship, and the actors and writers and producers are doing a beautiful job of portraying it....and then I see so many that have cried out for this inclusion, totally excluding every other aspect of Supergirl and then getting upset when someone questions their fandom of the series. It has gotten to the point that I have to block/mute those people and it absolutely breaks my heart that I can't have great conversations with them.....I wish I could. I know that it has come from both sides of this issue, but it has been a far greater number of those that I described above. As some have stated those that are against same sex relationships for the most part have departed from the show....I find that sad, but I can only say to that......they are the ones missing out on a great show, I do not believe for one second that the show should forgo these relationships. They have not been overly demonstrative about Maggie and Alex's relationship that I can see, but it is of course their choice, and they have made it. Just as I stated above the "Writers Room" was asked that question from the mom, and their answer was really simple..... tell them that they are in love. And as was so beautifully stated at last year's Tony Awards... "Love is love, is love, is love, is love......" In my opinion, it is as simple as that, and I think both sides can learn a lesson from that sentiment.

What I see on tmblr and twitter in GREAT NUMBERS unfortunately is 1 side stating (it's THIS and only THIS is important, all other stuff is irrelevant and makes the show crap) and the other side stating (THAT is wrong and should not be seen, and THAT is what is making the show crap).....and the rest of us are in between simply trying to post and talk about a show that we love. It's pretty sad.....

Kelly

Mon El is going to tear the fandom apart. It's only going to get worse as the season continues.

The myopic focus on this character and his relationship with Supergirl has altered the basic dynamic of the show.

Mon El is going to tear the fandom apart. It's only going to get worse as the season continues.

The myopic focus on this character and his relationship with Supergirl has altered the basic dynamic of the show.

Let's agree to disagree. I do not see at all what is wrong with him. Mon-El is an awesome character with much humour and wit, well portrayed and well written. A fine addition to the second season, and carries the show when other characters let it down.

I don't know if your problem is with Mon-El or with Kara having a relationship and I don't see how either is a bad thing. If you think Kara's love life is a distraction to a show about her, yet the heavy focus on the love life of a supporting character isn't, then I don't quite understand the reasoning.

However with full respect to the Administrators, I will not continue the debate here in a thread intended to foster peace. If you wish we may start a new post and talk it out in a civil manner.

Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.

Quite an interesting discussion! Thanks to all for your input and for the admin for starting the thread. Now for my 2 cents worth: I really don't follow Twitter or any of the other websites very much, but from what I've seen and heard about, I'm reminded of a wonderful line from "Inherit the Wind'" when Spencer Tracy comments that "fanaticism and ignorance are forever busy, and need feeding." It's a sad fact of life today that so many are so angry about so many different things (often without justification, but that's another topic). I'm neither a psychologist or a sociologist, but it seems that many people have a deep need to be angry; if they are not angry they are not happy. In the anonymity of the internet they can rave away. The absence of that is what makes this website so great. Yes, we have spirited debates and disagreements, but I think that many of us feel we "know" each other, and it fosters a more civil dialog. So I guess my advice is to follow Supergirl.TV and ignore the rest.

Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.

Wasn't talking about a ship war. I'm saying he's good character. I liked him long before he was a romance interest.

I'd just like to add that the primary attraction of this show is entertainment. At the same time since the 70s, shows have been used to express certain issues. I remember the shock people had when menopause was covered on All in the Family. Pretty bland by today's standards! But that is TV.

I have friends who have stopped watching for various reasons. I respect their decision. I will continue to watch and remember that a lot of material was drawn from the silver age. For example, Supergirl had a fling with Mon-El.

Yes, there are some things about the current season I do not like. However, I overall enjoy it, particularly 2.2. In the tradition of TV, the EPs raise certain issues: immigration, inter-racial relationships, the life of being gay. Frankly, some people will be ticked off by some content. My sole concern is for the young girls and boys watching this. Is some material or issues too mature for them? I am not judging the content. We also need to remember this.

In the end, Kara Zor-El makes me happy. I look forward to each Monday night and DVR each episode. Some I like and can watch a number of times; others I just view once and say "Meh." But Kara continues to draw me in her story, her growth, her successes and failures.

Argo

Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.

this right here is an example that causes divisiveness. A blank statement of "he is becoming the second lead" as the OP mentioned without any backup. fact is he was barely in "Martian Chronicles" and "the Luthors". Leads dont go missing for whole episodes like that.

I know I have ranted a few times about guardian but I would never begrudge or think less of someone if they liked the Guardian.

Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.

this right here is an example that causes divisiveness. A blank statement of "he is becoming the second lead" as the OP mentioned without any backup. fact is he was barely in "Martian Chronicles" and "the Luthors". Leads dont go missing for whole episodes like that.

I know I have ranted a few times about guardian but I would never begrudge or think less of someone if they liked the Guardian.

EXACTLY.....I actually envy them......

Things I love about Supergirl...

Kara and Alex relationship
Alex and Maggie relationship
Jonn's relationship with everyone
Is she good is she bad Lena Luthor
Mama Luthor, scares the bejezus out of me and I love that
Kara and Mon-El

Those are in no particular order, I just want to have a post in here that is all positive. This show makes my Monday and anytime I decide to re-watch an episode. This last episode I've watched 3 times already because it is just that good.

*sighs* That feels good.

First off I’d like to start by thanking the admins of this site. Next I would like to thank my fellow contributors for keeping it the most respectful fan site I have belonged to in a long time. People have disagreed with me but never once have I felt it was personal nor has anyone taken it personally when I disagree with them. I’m not on twitter but have recently quit the FB pages of every other Supergirl site but this one and the official site from CW, and I am seriously considering ditching that one.

Cat said it last season “A woman has to work twice as hard to be thought of as half as good”. The fact that we are getting a third season is a testament to the cast, crew, and as much as we love to hate them the writers. I read somewhere that the show almost didn’t happen because some people in a focus group saw the pilot and were “uncomfortable” with Supergirl being punched by a man. I believe it’s unprecedented for a show with ratings as high to change networks, so that’s yet another challenge.

I do think some of the fandom division mirrors the current deeply divided social/political climate in the United States. Arrow is too dark for me but I do watch Flash and occasionally Legends but it seems that of all the shows in the Berlantiverse Supergirl is the one chosen to be more than just entertainment, they want it to mean something. It’s the only one that really tackles hot button issues. Example, it would be pure denial to think having Mxy call Supergirl a Nasty Woman wouldn’t be seen as a political statement. Side note Melissa probably enjoyed that as well as being able to say “you want to see nuts, let’s go nuts”. I know that type of thing’s not on Flash. Bottom line addressing or even mentioning hot button social issues is going to attract irrational haters and season two has stepped that up.

The most hate seems to be reserved for James and Mon-El and I think there’s a connection. First there were haters who didn’t like Mehcad being cast in the first place. The fact that James wasn’t written well compared to the other characters in season one and I think it’s safe to say hasn’t been written better in season two only fuels the James haters. Mon-El on the other hand is well written, you don’t have to like a character to think they are well written. I think the show did a disservice to both characters by the abrupt end to James/Kara. I get how it looks bad to have Kara break up with the human guy representing a minority group because she wants to concentrate on her career only to hook up with the an alien guy who’s racially speaking the closest to her in the universe. This caused some of the Mon-El hate right out of the gate. I wouldn’t have liked this either if I thought the producers were racially motivated but I just don’t see that given their track record. It would have been better if the writers had had Kara and James go on a couple of awkward dates then mutually decide to go back to being good friends thus avoiding the James verses Mon-El thing.

I’ll admit last summer when the EPs said a character on the CW DC shows would explore their sexuality I had no doubt it would be Alex. My first reaction was please don’t, because I thought of all the ways it would bring hate upon the show. I imagined the writers botching it and the LGBTQ community rightfully being disappointed. Thanks be to Rao that didn’t happen as most agree the story line was well written and superbly acted. Unfortunately the other expected hate is still happening.

In final summery love this site and let’s continue the constructive discussions.

Note: I have not looked at the responses to my comments yesterday (well, yesterday for me).

However, I'd like to add a point and a suggestion. To a lot of the Kara-Mon El shippers and us who feel nostalgic for the good old season 1, the issue has been how peripheral Kara has been to other storylines going on in the season. At least, the past couple of episodes have been Kara-centred and that is one good thing that I found about it.

If the writers had worked to make an integrated storyline keeping Kara at the centre of it all, and taking some time to do it instead of wanting everything yesterday, then I think the show would have been well-served. This could also improve the Mon El storyline.

Note: I am not changing the premise of the story and instead working with the premise we have in Season 2. (Of Aliens having been on Earth for a long time, local cops knowing about it and so on).

Make, new characters like Maggie and M'gann's first point of entry into the group be Kara. Easy enough considering Kara wants to be a reporter. Cop and bar tenders--excellent sources and points of contention if you ask me. The fightclub just adds to it if the storyline was changed to dilute J'onn's and Alex's direct involvement there.

Let J'onn and Alex be peripheral to these stories. and make the interactions there come slowly. So, basically, have Kara invested in these characters based on her own direct interactions, rather than as Alex's love interest or J'onn's blast from the past.

With Mon-El, let Alex and J'onn, with Winn helping, work on dealing with him and his training. Yes, I know, when we have superpowered Alien who can identify with him at hand (and share a star with him at hand), why go for Alex and J'onn and Winn. Well, Alex is a geneticist. It makes it natural for her to do tests on him. Besides she trained Kara. Even without the Kryptonite training room, I am pretty sure the science experts at DC could have found a way for her to do the same with Mon El. And Kara remaining away could be reasoned by both her prejudices due to her childhood, her pain about her own loss which Mon El remains a stark reminder of (all of which was solved in 1 episode), and of course her new reporter duties.

Let Mon El remain the palace guard instead of the Prince or anyone powerful. However, show him struggling with Earth stuff, especially owing to his conservative background (other than his flings, we saw this only the last episode) but also because his whole world was taken away from him. But, show him actually getting impacted and struggling; and improving; but also show that Kara's prejudices have been unjust from Kara's point of view. He could have his funny moments even in this case.

This should be peripheral by the way and not take up the entire time.

I'd leave most of Kara-Lena as is, but would like it if Lena had more interactions with Alex thanks to Cadmus.

In James' case, I'd prefer if he managed change from his position as Cat Co head. But, if the powers that be think that that makes him far removed from the young crowd (I don't agree, but be that as it may), then arrange a situation where he feels really powerless and it makes sense for him to take up arms. Not Kara getting injured or being in a battle because when you consider the power differential that doesn't make sense. But, someone like Eve or a lay person on the street getting hurt, James couldn't do anything, and Supergirl couldn't help because she was busy elsewhere.

And... don't let him blackmail Winn in helping him; or expect that he would get Kara's agreement right away and feel betrayed and injured when she doesn't give him that. And let him not bring up news pieces on himself and his heroism to Snapper.

Let Kara report on these things; on Guardian, on the changes in Alien society owing to both the Alien Amnesty Act and Cadmus (Maggie could work with her here); and of course the big bad of the episode.

And finally, let all of these struggles emerge in parallel with the big bad of the season. Cadmus.

Let that be the thread that ties everything together. So, even James' struggles would be happening in tandem with this.

And with all this going on--let us have (and this is a personal thing, I'd like it)--sister nights or touchbases continue. See Season 1. It's not just the movie nights; it is also walking to Noonan with Kara; having breakfast there with Kara; supporting Kara with every fight; talking to Kara about Cat Grant's article. This season, when have we seen Alex discuss anything but either of their love life with Kara. How about Kara's first article in print? Alex could have teased Kara about it. Shown pride. Told her to go to bars--in fact, that could have been their first meeting with M'gann with Kara taking it forward and Alex supporting.

OH! And let the game nights continue too; not every episode but at least once in the first half hey? Let Alex, James and Winn interact (one of my best additions this season has been Alex-Winn interactions). As in, when James decides to do his thing, he could come to Alex for help. It could be shown instead of just that single moment or two used for comic effect during Thanks Giving and all that.

It would have taken a couple of seasons or more to do it slowly and with the justice it deserves. But, the show wouldn't have divided it fandom into gay people and people who support POC and women and all that.

Right now, M'gann is not there, but when she was there, she was most important to J'onn with her rarely if ever interacting with Kara or Alex. With Maggie, everyone takes her as the gay sister's lover. Which makes most people but the LGBT and the folks who like romance disinterested in that storyline. She should have been Kara's cop friend and the one Alex gets into an argument (may be owing to her protectiveness regarding Kara) first before becoming Alex's girlfriend. And with Mon El, Probably, the showrunners and people who like him see him as Darcy (Pride & Prejudice), but to others, he seems to be a polished Reggie (Archies). With James, to his supporters, he is a hero, but to his detractors, he seems too much like one who likes spotlight a lot rather than one who is genuinely concerned about the state of the world. Lena interacts only with Kara and it says something for both the actors that almost the entire audience is invested in her story (if not the shipping) despite some lacks.

Okay... I am done! If you read so much from me; thank you.

If I have offended/hurt anybody, let me know, and I will keep that in mind in future; and try to do better.

Oh... and keep romance far away--making what Kara said to James actually true--at least for a time. And honestly, I'd prefer they go back to Kara/James provided James remains a relatable character. And even then, let all romances remain periphery with Alex-Kara, Alex-Kara-J’onn and the Kara-Winn-James friendships of season 1 remaining the core of the show. It can expand, but let friendships remain the core.

Yeah besides Guardian I'm pretty much either positive or neutral about all aspects of the show.

Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.

I'm definitely following your argument here, Lindy. I have to wonder...we the audience already know something isn't "right" with Mon-el...he's been lying. So perhaps a lot of focus is being given to Mon-El because his backstory/lie is about to alter Kara in a big way...i.e...she FINALLY lets herself feel and believe that she can let her guard down, let someone in, and "have everything." Then...BAM! The truth comes out. So...I'm right there with you on wishing all these side characters weren't pulling screen time away from the OG crew. But, I see where the writers MIGHT be headed...and thus I can see why perhaps SO much time is being given to Mon-El.

I just wish all breaking off "fandoms" could remember the BIG picture. We shall see.

I'm definitely following your argument here, Lindy. I have to wonder...we the audience already know something isn't "right" with Mon-el...he's been lying. So perhaps a lot of focus is being given to Mon-El because his backstory/lie is about to alter Kara in a big way...i.e...she FINALLY lets herself feel and believe that she can let her guard down, let someone in, and "have everything." Then...BAM! The truth comes out. So...I'm right there with you on wishing all these side characters weren't pulling screen time away from the OG crew. But, I see where the writers MIGHT be headed...and thus I can see why perhaps SO much time is being given to Mon-El.

I just wish all breaking off "fandoms" could remember the BIG picture. We shall see.

Does it make sense to say--after all this talk of anti-Mon El from me--that I hate the thought of Kara getting hurt? So, I'd prefer it working out, but then getting a more integrated group storyline with romance in the periphery?

I don't mind Kara having more character growth, but I don't want her to lose her faith or her optimisim or idealism. I don't want her to grow cynical. It'd be painful.

As Melissa has said in several interviews....

Kara's optimism, hope, desire to do good, and love for family and friends is at the very core of her being....and no matter what happens, she will always go back to that. It is so strong that Melissa has said that when she's not sure of where to go with Kara, she simply goes back to that....it's that simple.

When I watch the dark hard scenes, it just makes the light, fun, optimistic, hopeful Kara look that much brighter.

Mon El is going to tear the fandom apart. It's only going to get worse as the season continues.

The myopic focus on this character and his relationship with Supergirl has altered the basic dynamic of the show.

I totally disagree, fans of only certain aspects of the show, certain story lines are what I see on social media as the biggest problem. Monday nights last year, I use to go on Twitter in between the East coast and West coast showings type in #Supergirl and have a BLAST....

I do that now, and all it is is "shipping" wars and people upset that their ship is not getting screen time, and absolutely typing tweets that are "rude, crude and socially unacceptable". I see the word "HATE" so often it is ridiculous, I see tweets from certain shippers that actually HATE the fandom that loves the show and tweets about every relationship, every story line....like that is a bad thing.

The fandom of Supergirl that was there last season, and is still here this season will be fine if they base their enjoyment on the series as a whole. If they get caught up in this shipping stuff, in this screen time stuff....then yeah they will not enjoy it and possibly fall away. But that isn't the shows fault, that is their own fault.

The only negative I see, is that I can no longer go on Twitter in between the east and west coast showings and have fun with the writers any more because of the absolutely hateful things that people are posting to them, and it is coming in a GRAND MAJORITY from ONE GROUP, with another in close 2nd. But I will leave it at that....and within the next few episodes I will have those 2 groups on mute as a whole, and go back to enjoying the show for what it is, a Superhero comic book action series about a young woman and the life she lives and the stories that go with that...

Yyeeaahhh... Once I got called "f'ing 'c' word" several times by a certain "crew" for simply sayin to the writers, "Alex and Winn were hilarious tonight," I learned REAL quick to not participate.

Being in Mountain Standard time, I use to watch an hour after eastern/central time, then REwatch on DVR while it was being played on West coast just to be able to follow with the west coast tweets. Buuuutttt... I stopped this season since these new fandoms arose.