Everything Waco Thread

How was Melissa's performance in Episode 3?. Did Rachel get much story in the episode?.

She's great in anything she does. There was a scene where they were crying over their father, suddenly one of the B. Davidians tried sneaking IN to the compound during the firefight, and they shot him. Just Melissa's simple flinching as you could hear them shooting, was perfect. She's just so dang good at even the little nuances.

It is those little things that she does that puts her heads above most actors on TV today. These director's saw it, Kevin Smith almost had a fangasm over it....and I think that is probably what got her the part of Supergirl.

I think had the children been abused in any way, Thibodeaux would have brought that out in his book....he had nothing to gain from not telling the truth....he saw David for what he was....and it wasn't until he saw so many lies coming out as to what it was like on the inside that he decided to write his book.

I was reading some more on the event and I think that the child abuse explanation was what the FBI told Janet Reno was happening inside the compound in order to justify some of the tactics that they wanted to use. I don't believe that they had a lot of evidence of child abuse beforehand and the basis of their warrant was for the illegal guns and explosives that they thought were in the facility. That said, young girls being sexually abused by David definitely would qualify as child abuse and the other adults that allowed it to happen are complicit in that abuse, I think. Nevertheless, that wasn't the rationale for the raid and definitely doesn't justify the level of force that was used in the raid.

Anyone remember the Elian Gonzalez raid, too? With Ruby Ridge, Waco, Elian...wow. Not some good years there.

But, back to Waco. Looking forward to Melissa's acting in these next few heartbreaking episodes. Waco... The story I never realized needed to be told... until now.

I think had the children been abused in any way, Thibodeaux would have brought that out in his book....he had nothing to gain from not telling the truth....he saw David for what he was....and it wasn't until he saw so many lies coming out as to what it was like on the inside that he decided to write his book.

I was reading some more on the event and I think that the child abuse explanation was what the FBI told Janet Reno was happening inside the compound in order to justify some of the tactics that they wanted to use. I don't believe that they had a lot of evidence of child abuse beforehand and the basis of their warrant was for the illegal guns and explosives that they thought were in the facility. That said, young girls being sexually abused by David definitely would qualify as child abuse and the other adults that allowed it to happen are complicit in that abuse, I think. Nevertheless, that wasn't the rationale for the raid and definitely doesn't justify the level of force that was used in the raid.

My reason for bringing that up is that it seems his wife and other women, were more afraid of losing their children and I think had the authorities made assurances that that would not happen, and that they only wanted to bring David and others in for questioning and a more through investigation....and allowed the Sheriff's department to bring them in, not Government....I think things would have gone far differently.

My reason for bringing that up is that it seems his wife and other women, were more afraid of losing their children and I think had the authorities made assurances that that would not happen, and that they only wanted to bring David and others in for questioning and a more through investigation....and allowed the Sheriff's department to bring them in, not Government....I think things would have gone far differently.

Yep, I agree. And along with fear of losing their children, it was also a fear of losing who they were. I thought that one of Melissa's best scenes was early on, when David was telling her that they were going to have to leave and Melissa's response was that her life in the compound was all she ever knew. That was very telling and you had to feel sorry for her because of her fear of possibly having to exist in a life outside of what she had had since childhood.

I also agree that if they would have used local authorities rather than federal, it would have ended much better. But, that was a different time period than what we have now. Organization and interdepartmental cooperation between local, state and federal officials was not as cohesive or encouraged as it has been since 9/11. And that time period was one in which crime and specifically, domestic terrorism was on the rise. So, you put those two factors together and it's not surprising that there were so many mistakes that were made.

My reason for bringing that up is that it seems his wife and other women, were more afraid of losing their children and I think had the authorities made assurances that that would not happen, and that they only wanted to bring David and others in for questioning and a more through investigation....and allowed the Sheriff's department to bring them in, not Government....I think things would have gone far differently.

Yep, I agree. And along with fear of losing their children, it was also a fear of losing who they were. I thought that one of Melissa's best scenes was early on, when David was telling her that they were going to have to leave and Melissa's response was that her life in the compound was all she ever knew. That was very telling and you had to feel sorry for her because of her fear of possibly having to exist in a life outside of what she had had since childhood.

I also agree that if they would have used local authorities rather than federal, it would have ended much better. But, that was a different time period than what we have now. Organization and interdepartmental cooperation between local, state and federal officials was not as cohesive or encouraged as it has been since 9/11. And that time period was one in which crime and specifically, domestic terrorism was on the rise. So, you put those two factors together and it's not surprising that there were so many mistakes that were made.

Well, even back then, when a Federal warrant was being served, you didn't just have one department serving it....my question was where were the US Marshal's, where was the local police who are supposed to be called in when warrants cross state, Federal etc are being served???? that is protocol that has been in place for a very long time. It was in place then.

Why? The ATF wanted all the glory for this one, they listened to exactly 1 informant who was mad at Koresh based their entire process on him and where he said the guns were stashed. DID NOT even listen to their own agent that had been inside the compound and wanted to show the world that they weren't royal **** ups like what happened at Ruby Ridge....and well, another **** up was born.

I also agree that if they would have used local authorities rather than federal, it would have ended much better. But, that was a different time period than what we have now. Organization and interdepartmental cooperation between local, state and federal officials was not as cohesive or encouraged as it has been since 9/11. And that time period was one in which crime and specifically, domestic terrorism was on the rise. So, you put those two factors together and it's not surprising that there were so many mistakes that were made.

Well, even back then, when a Federal warrant was being served, you didn't just have one department serving it....my question was where were the US Marshal's, where was the local police who are supposed to be called in when warrants cross state, Federal etc are being served???? that is protocol that has been in place for a very long time. It was in place then.

It was the ATF's investigation and involved illegal weapons and explosives, which is a federal offense assigned specifically to the ATF branch. Because of that, they had jurisdiction and weren't required to take any local or state agencies to serve the warrant. And yes, sometimes they will out of courtesy contact and utilize them but, there are also many times where there is a willful attempt by various agencies to withhold information, generally because of ego (kind of like a dog peeing on an area to claim it as his). In this case, the show has shown that the ATF was under a lot of pressure to prove that they were still a vital agency that needed adequate gov't funding. Plus, they along with the FBI had just screwed up Ruby Ridge. That attitude going in skewed their investigation and their tactics. And was also most likely the reason why they didn't want to let any other agency in on the bust.

But, as I said, with 9/11 there seems to be more of a willingness among agencies to cooperate because they have seen the benefits and necessity of doing so.

I also agree that if they would have used local authorities rather than federal, it would have ended much better. But, that was a different time period than what we have now. Organization and interdepartmental cooperation between local, state and federal officials was not as cohesive or encouraged as it has been since 9/11. And that time period was one in which crime and specifically, domestic terrorism was on the rise. So, you put those two factors together and it's not surprising that there were so many mistakes that were made.

Well, even back then, when a Federal warrant was being served, you didn't just have one department serving it....my question was where were the US Marshal's, where was the local police who are supposed to be called in when warrants cross state, Federal etc are being served???? that is protocol that has been in place for a very long time. It was in place then.

It was the ATF's investigation and involved illegal weapons and explosives, which is a federal offense assigned specifically to the ATF branch. Because of that, they had jurisdiction and weren't required to take any local or state agencies to serve the warrant. And yes, sometimes they will out of courtesy contact and utilize them but, there are also many times where there is a willful attempt by various agencies to withhold information, generally because of ego (kind of like a dog peeing on an area to claim it as his). In this case, the show has shown that the ATF was under a lot of pressure to prove that they were still a vital agency that needed adequate gov't funding. Plus, they along with the FBI had just screwed up Ruby Ridge. That attitude going in skewed their investigation and their tactics. And was also most likely the reason why they didn't want to let any other agency in on the bust.

But, as I said, with 9/11 there seems to be more of a willingness among agencies to cooperate because they have seen the benefits and necessity of doing so.

I totally get that it was a government deal, the thing is, they are to have back up from the local authorities when serving a warrant, which is what they were SUPPOSED to be doing....serving a warrant, not going to war.

Yes, 9/11 has started the ball rolling, at least between the CIA and FBI, there are still problems with information getting to Homeland Security....the fact that they put FEMA into Homeland Security has really screwed up a lot of information sharing, and FEMA is just one more thing that takes up the valuable time of Homeland Security. Such a stupid move...

The real problem today is there is just not a suitable data base showing who has bought what guns, ammo, etc....where, along with other items to make explosives. It is still only semi-solid within states, not from state to state. The infrastructure is just not in place....and the very fact that government agencies are still using computers that were bought over a decade ago, tells you where the infrastructure is....it is pathetic.

Yes, 9/11 has started the ball rolling, at least between the CIA and FBI, there are still problems with information getting to Homeland Security....the fact that they put FEMA into Homeland Security has really screwed up a lot of information sharing, and FEMA is just one more thing that takes up the valuable time of Homeland Security. Such a stupid move...

The real problem today is there is just not a suitable data base showing who has bought what guns, ammo, etc....where, along with other items to make explosives. It is still only semi-solid within states, not from state to state. The infrastructure is just not in place....and the very fact that government agencies are still using computers that were bought over a decade ago, tells you where the infrastructure is....it is pathetic.

Yep, if we could just get some of the bureaucracy out of government agencies, they might actually function a little more smoothly . And that applies to all types of government agencies.

I’ve only watched the first three installments but they’re not pulling any punches with the reality of the situation. In some ways it’s like Titanic we know the ending but that doesn’t make it easier. I had planned to watch on Mondays but given your warning for the last installment I think I’ll change to a weekend when I can have a couple of stiff drinks.

Yeah, Episode 2 was shocking because I didn't remember the intensity of the firefight. And yes, they pretty much didn't leave much left to the imagination on that one. But, the last episode was just so incredibly sad because of the desperation depicted in conjunction with the knowledge of the ending as you watch it. I think I would forgo the stiff drinks and just have the entire bottle within reach

I couldn't finish it...

Oh this episode was horrible to watch (in a good way, I guess). The loss of life was so pointless and heartbreaking and after watching it I was just stunned. Melissa was amazing as always but oh so heartbreaking and the law enforcements reactions when the fire started and no one was coming out side made me feel bad for even them, as the way it ended was obviously not as they planned.

I thought this was another good episode. It seems to me that, if they could have gotten rid of the two main FBI guys and David, this whole thing most likely would have ended without so many fatalities. And we also are able to see more of how good of a relationship the sheriff had with David. He definitely should have been utilized more in the negotiation process. Man, they really screwed up.

This series is just so compelling to me. But, it's also hard to watch because when I sit and watch these characters, I get so invested in them that I forget that it is not just another fictional show. And then, in the middle of viewing it, I remember the reality of the situation, and that most of these characters will end up dying, and it makes me angry and very sad.

I’ve only watched the first three installments but they’re not pulling any punches with the reality of the situation. In some ways it’s like Titanic we know the ending but that doesn’t make it easier. I had planned to watch on Mondays but given your warning for the last installment I think I’ll change to a weekend when I can have a couple of stiff drinks.

Oh this episode was horrible to watch (in a good way, I guess). The loss of life was so pointless and heartbreaking and after watching it I was just stunned. Melissa was amazing as always but oh so heartbreaking and the law enforcements reactions when the fire started and no one was coming out side made me feel bad for even them, as the way it ended was obviously not as they planned.

Yep. All that right there. I couldn't shake the gut wrenching feeling those FBI agents, especially the two head honchos, HAD to be feeling of, "Oh my oh my oh my... What HAVE we done???"

Melissa at that ending? Sad that she even had to portray it! I remember her saying she was just gutted at the end of filming.

I watched the first installment last Monday, truly gripping television. I'll be watching the second installment during Supergirl's regular time tonight. I just looked it up and I'm sure this was on purpose, the final installment will air 2/28/2018 exactly 25 years after the siege started on 2/28/1993.

I watched the first installment last Monday, truly gripping television. I'll be watching the second installment during Supergirl's regular time tonight. I just looked it up and I'm sure this was on purpose, the final installment will air 2/28/2018 exactly 25 years after the siege started on 2/28/1993.

Yep, I'm sure that was totally on purpose. This series has hit me harder than I thought it would have. It's just little things that have really made me rethink this or that....I'm about to start reading the two books that the series is based from....I'm starting with the negotiator's book, I think he probably has a harder time with what happened than most because he has a true understanding of what could have been.......I also find myself realizing just how terrible things really were under the Clinton Administration. I guess because I was just starting my teaching career, my 403b was doing great with the stock market, I was young, stupid, liberal and didn't care about politics.....I don't know, but I just finished "Ghosts of Rwanda" with my students, we also talked about Somalia and what happened 3 weeks before the genocide broke out in Rwanda, we have also talked about Kosovo, and as I went through all of these things I realized just how many times the Clinton administration dropped the ball on so many things...both domestic and foreign. It is really true that history truly writes the book as to how well a President did in their years in office, or how badly. It was just eyeopening.....

Just a comment: Waco takes on two small views of the whole story. There is a larger picture. Did the ATF screw things up? Yes. Was David Koresh a wing nut? Yes. Ws the outcome preordained? Who knows.

This programme is much more sympathetic to the Branch Davidians, than post mortems of the events indicate. The program is riveting, though, because of the superb acting. I find this Koresh very unnervingand that speaks to the actor's performance. I look forward as from what perspective they will end the mini series.

Argo

I have cable, but not Paramount Network. Any ideas where one would be able to watch this show online?

I have cable, but not Paramount Network. Any ideas where one would be able to watch this show online?

Stream the episodes at http://www.paramountnetwork.com