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  4. Monday, 15 July 2019
Hi,

I found this ew.com article. This is the reason for the suit change for Season 5. In the article, Melissa states that it's more "adult" and allows her to have more range of motion. Maybe yes, maybe no. The final results will be seen on screen.

In my opinion, depending on how the fans react, it might be the last season for the show. In all honesty, at this point, I wouldn't mind it if it was. It's had a good run, pushed boundaries and made its point. In my modest view, too much tinkering eventually leads to a show's collapse. This seems to be the case with this one as well.
References
  1. https://ew.com
"Dance Of The Clairvoyants" - Pearl Jam, from the CD/LP/Download Gigaton. (2020)
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I will miss the iconic red skirt. Heck, I was upset when they took the red trunks away from Superman. :(

Fact is though, it was designed with LA shoots in mind, not Vancouver.

The new suit looks fine to me. It is a step down and somewhat genericized. But it is about as good as I could reasonably expect for a radical redesign. And let's be real; the character has suffered some severe wardrobe fails over the years. This doesn't come close to the worst Supergirl look.

I remain more concerned about the writing and overall trajectory of the show than I am about the aesthetics.
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@ Kelly and Brierronse:

@ Brierrose: Not disputing your points. Just saying that too much tinkering will be the show's undoing. That's all! It started with the wonky writing, dodgy science and plausibility issues, character additions and losses (although to be expected), then the suit change. What's next? What more can they snafu?

@ Kelly: Valid points. But, as seen in S4, the suit change works only if it's for a short duration (e.g. one-off super suit, anti-Kryptonite suit, etc.), it does not work well over an entire season.

As for the suit changes on other shows, that's precisely why I don't bother with them. That plus the fact that Arrow and the Flash have been unwatchable story-wise the last two seasons. Horrid writing on both. Arrow should have ended mercifully last year and the Flash, despite still being popular, is running on vapour creatively. Legends of Tomorrow is another kettle of fish I won't bother to get into here.

In all honesty, the show can end anytime the PTB deem it to be expendable - 7-year contracts or not. If it doesn't do well or some unforeseen factors come into play, they will cut their losses and move on. Like pro sports, a contract is only a document with numbers on it and money exchanging hands. Business is business - the spreadsheet and the bottom line are the law.

Although the old suit may have needed freshening up a bit, it should not have been ditched. The new suit does not make Melissa look more adult or more 21st Century - it makes her look completely generic and no different than every other spandex-clad superhero out there today. This is not a good thing. And, no, it has nothing to do with sexism or being stuck in one's one-track way of thinking - it has everything to do with iconic image and how it is projected to the viewers. Mess with that, especially with this character, and you're in troubled waters.

Melissa's comfort and well-being are certainly paramount considerations, but they can work with and around the inclement weather in Vancouver. They have the technology and access to materials and locations that would be less physically discomforting for her. What they lack is / was foresight to counteract the elements through shoot planning. This is much easier to do in Vancouver than Toronto or Montreal where inclement weather is much more severe and longer lasting.

So, please stop shaking your head and going OMG and believing that I'm taking a hissy. I'm not. What I am doing is showing very genuine concern for the choices the brass and the lead actor made regarding this switch. On one level, it's perfectly logical; but in another comic book-based vantage point (which is what the viewers are looking for), this one's a huge dud.



I gotta disagree with you. Yes, I'm sad to see the classic suit go. And I'm not personally a fan of bangs. On anyone, not just Melissa (they actually bother me more than the suit change). But their reasons for the suit change are totally valid. They can't work "around" inclement weather when they've booked time to shoot outside or on location. First off, they probably schedule those shoots well ahead of any accurate weather forecast, and trying to reschedule them would be an incredibly substantial loss in funding. I don't care if Vancouver is cheaper than L.A., booking time to shoot on location in an urban area is not cheap, and losing money just to reschedule due to weather isn't really an option. A tv show just doesn't have the budget and flexibility of a movie. That's one of the reasons why the CGI can be super questionable, at times.

Then there is the issue of production schedule. If they don't get the scenes they need shot within the allowed time for that scene in a given episode, there is no going back to get the shot, later. You either get it, or you don't. This was confirmed in an interview with Kevin Smith back when he directed his first episode. The production schedule is just too tight for that. You either get what you need on the day you have access to that location, or you don't get what you need. Period.

Not to mention that this new design probably means Melissa isn't forced to wear a corset under her costume to support her cape, now that it's the type with clasps on the shoulders. This gives her more maneuverability and range of motion.

Heck, Arrow had sleeveless arms for a single season before they transitioned back to full sleeves for warmth. I can only imagine how much worse that is for nearly bare legs with only very thin tights covering.

As for your claim that this show could end whenever...you may dislike the direction of the show in recent seasons (as have I), but the ratings were still solid, and consistently in the top 5 for CW's shows. And bottom line, networks don't cancel top performing shows. So yeah, if the show maintains anything even close to it's ranking among the CW listings, then it will at least get to season 7, which is when most lead contracts end, and presumably when Melissa's does, as well. At that point, if the show is still performing well, it really falls on her if the show will continue or not.

That's why Arrow's ending. It's still a high ranked CW show, but Stephen Amell's contract ended, and he didn't want to renew for multiple more years. So he agreed to a shortened 8th season to end the show.

The old Supergirl suit was fine, when they were shooting in L.A. Cold winters weren't exactly a concern, there. But I'm honestly surprised they kept it around for 3 years in Vancouver.

The simple matter is that yes, the old suit is iconic. And in a perfect world, Melissa would be as invulnerable as her character, and wouldn't be bothered by wearing that suit in cold temperatures. But it's just not practical for a season where night shoots hits 20-40 degrees, on a regular basis. And no "freshening up" of the old suit, while still keeping the skirt and tights, was going to change that concern. Literally no other person in the Arrowverse has been shooting wearing as little as Melissa was. If it was a limited shoot, like a movie, or a mini-series, that's fine. But this girl has been working in that suit for longer than literally any other actor who has portrayed Supergirl OR Superman, in film or tv, has had to. The closest runner up is Dean Cain. His version of Superman ran for 88 episodes. Supergirl will match that on the very first episode of the season. And we don't count Smallville because he didn't wear any sort of "suit" until season 9.

I get that you are upset with the change. What you see as the quintessential version of Supergirl has been changed. And if you choose to bail on the show, that's your choice. If you choose to stick with it, that's cool, too. As for how these changes impact the show's future, we just have to wait and see how the season pans out, and where the ratings fall. I'm also reserving final judgement to see how the suit, and Melissa's new hair, look in motion for flying and fighting scenes.

I'm not saying your concerns are not valid. They are. And I'm absolutely sure you aren't the only one that feels that way. But I would ask that you recognize that there are perhaps just as many people who love the suit. and others, like myself, who kinda fall in the middle ground. And if official promo photos of the new suit, or seeing it in action doesn't sell you, then hey, maybe it's just not for you, anymore. And if that ends up being the case, that is totally fine.

And who knows? Maybe you are right, the ratings just tank. In that situation, there are 2 likely scenarios:

1) The show ends. They would probably renew it for at least a shortened 6th season, just to give closure. And I would be okay with that, because back in season 1, I predicted this show would MAYBE get 3 seasons. I never imagined 5-6.

2) The other possibility is that the producers realize that the suit has had a detrimental effect on the show, and try to backpedal for a future season. I don't imagine them going back to the original suit, but maybe they'd create a new version that goes back to the skirted look. I don't personally see this happening, because they'd be going back to the same health, safety, and comfort concerns the original suit has. BUT...I have to acknowledge that at least it's a possibility.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can see your point, but I want to iterate that the sky is not falling, and ask that you acknowledge that, while certainly there are those who share your thoughts, it doesn't indicate a negative reaction by the fandom at large.

I truly hope some of the promotional material we get in the coming months is more to your liking.
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Great Rao just when I thought this thread was dead.

*cough cough* Broken Record *cough cough*
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Just showed my sister the new promotional shot of Supergirl in the new suit.

Response: Oh wow, that is awesome looking, love it.

Yep, I agree, sis.
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@Romulus, the post was getting big, so I am not quoting you.

Thank you for your kind reply.

I have not been happy with how the show has been going since S2. With a few exceptions anyways. (But a lot of the audience do seem to like it and consider fourth the best season. And they may have their tastes.)

Irrespective of that, I don't agree with your underlying assumptions about the reasons for the show's direction and Melissa when there is nothing much to backup these points. That was what I wanted to say. It doesn't matter the actors are under gag orders. They haven't said it. Hence, it is not to be assumed.

There are certain implied assumptions that we make about women and that ends up being displayed in situations such as this. And, at times, they are more latent and we make them unaware.

Thus, I was not asking you to mince your words. I was asking you to examine your assumptions. I never considered it a malicious attack on Melissa made intentionally to hurt. I just consider that the underlying assumptions were sexist and gendered (all of them including about her looks). And disrespectful.

Were you asking Stephen and Grant to start a family since their shows are bad? Or any guy who got engaged and was having a bad show in your opinion but popular in general?

If you were asking them to do that, well then. I stand corrected and I apologise.

If not, I stand by my statement.


I will quote you....lol

And I agree, I don't see any of the statements in here misogynistic in nature, but they are stereotypical in nature, in that as you stated SSAV male actors are not asked these questions, nor are assumptions made like those made here. If those things are not called out, they will continue and I believe that is one of the things this series is fighting against, and I think it is hitting home and some are changing, or shouting foul.

I have no answer really for those that do not like the suit, because it isn't the skirt. Not liking the suit is not a big deal to me, that is simply an opinion being given, you want the skirt, ok........not gonna happen, but ok. But when assumptions are made as to why there is a change, or the actor is asking things that diminish the character, or the sky is falling....then I will speak to those things. People that don't like the color, not enough red, etc.....that is a valid point, but I'm sorry I do not see "its just too much of a change" as a valid point, change happens, this character is evolving and what works on a piece of paper drawn, does not necessarily work in live action over the life of a series, things have to change or they become stagnant. That is the nature of it.

I have to say, yes I have seen the tweets of "I miss her legs", "I miss the sexy", etc....but honestly no where near the number I thought we would have....I'm actually surprised and happily surprised at that. I do, however believe some are veiled in "history of the character in print", etc. The history of this character in print, has not always been a good one, and unfortunately (In my opinion) the print version has not evolved nearly enough, and I count that as simply not enough female artists out there to counter the decades of no real evolution of the character;s look, other than what a male artist thinks she should look like in his mind. We are at the cusp of seeing that change, and I for one am so proud that Melissa and this series are leading the way in the evolution of this character's look, Melissa has the nature of the character down, and wearing pants is not going to change that sooooooooo......bravo, and as a woman all I can say is.....it's about damn time.
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There is going to be times where it looks like that for gender equality it is at the expense of the other, simply because the other for centuries has had the upper hand. In this country it has only been 100 years of Women having the right to vote, and we are "just now" getting solid representation in our government. So please, do not talk to me about........oooooh, I call foul because you say you want equality, and it is at my expense as a man. Um, nooooo......just having to push back because it has been a full on battle to even get to where we are now, and still FAAAAAAAAAAAAR from being equal in many areas of society. So, I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy where that is concerned. We are not going to gain equality without men losing something, sorry......it is just how it is. That loss is not something that degrades men, that is not what is happening. That loss is simply women gaining the power to speak for themselves, to make decisions for themselves, to be given the right to change things because they see and feel the need to do so. The equality comes with allowing change, it isn't about taking something away...it is about giving something back that wasn't yours to begin with.
I'm not sure if you're directing this at me or not, but I'm a woman and have felt the brunt of inequality and been in the thick of fighting for it longer than most of those on this show have even been born. So, I'm fully aware of what that looks like and well versed in the history of women's rights in the United States.

My position is that we, as a society, should have the belief that we want to strive toward putting all individuals, from all walks of life - be that gender, race, sexual orientation, socioeconomic, etc. - to the same high level of equality. There is an argument that some individuals are already at that level, and if so, fair enough. But, most (including both men and women) are not in all areas of life. And to state that men should be expected to lose something because they had something that they shouldn't have had in the first place, is a slap in the face to those who actually haven't had it and struggle in life every day, just as women do. All we're doing when we make statements such as that is alienating folks who work hard to try and and achieve a minimum level in standard of living. Additionally, it creates a further division in our society, one that we don't need to widen, but rather, bring together.

This approach doesn't take anything away from women gaining equality because IF we have the belief that we are working at putting all individuals on that same equal level, women's rise to it will naturally occur. Yes, we have more women represented in the House than we ever have had before. The reason for this is not because these women went into their districts and talked about taking back something that women had lost. Instead, it's because these women had the fortitude to get involved, were encouraged by others to believe that they could do it and then went in and talked to their constituents about how their district could gain by having them represent them. It's all about having conversations with other citizens that don't swing from one extreme to another.
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The more pictures I see, the more the new suit is growing on me. Apart from the practical reasons (comfort, freedom of movement, dignity, and character progression), I'm coming to appreciate it aesthetically. At first I thought it was too blue, but the cape and the new boots provide plenty of red, and the belt really pops. Plus it just looks strong and powerful. I think it will be a big hit.
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@Romulus - not to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like the suit might just be the straw that broke the camel's back regarding the show for you??? My straw was broken clear back in Season 2 so, I can sympathize a bit.

I've said it before that I'm not one who has been deeply entrenched in the comic history lore of Supergirl or really any of the comics. As a child I read them, but didn't really get attached to them deeply. And since the suit change news came about, I've really tried to think about my own attachment to traditions and how I might feel if something I felt so strongly about changed in order to not try to pass judgement on someone else too quickly. The only thing I immediately came up with is when I was younger - I'm from Iowa and 6-player girl's basketball was a tradition that went back for years. And when they wanted to switch to 5 player ball during my prime high school years, I was adamant that it would be the worst thing for Iowa girl's basketball ever. It's all I ever knew and so I was completely opposed even though realistically, it meant more scholarship opportunities for Iowa girls post high school. Well, needless to say, after not switching during high school and then playing 5 player in college, I looked back and shamelessly shook my head at my earlier refusal for not wanting to change.

I know it's not the same, but sometimes change is necessary for growth and we can't always see the benefits of it while we're immersed into the thick of it all. And, you may not ever be in a position where you can look back and see how it wasn't a detriment, but hopefully it will not distract you from something that sounds as though you love.

I'm completely okay with pants, for reasons I stated on the News Page. But, like Romulus mentioned, I am not a fan of the design - both because it's too generic, but also because it's too similar to Superman's. And if it weren't for the fact that the show seems to be insistent on creating a Supergirl that is mostly just a female version of Superman in the stories, relationships and characters that they choose to use, it probably wouldn't bother me. So, yeah, that is the only thing that irks me in the least bit about the suit.

The pant-suit look is a reasonable attire - many athletes, both female and male, use a similar design to help them go faster and to be less restrictive/distracting for them during competition. So, as a tactical piece, it completely makes sense. However, they could have easily added more detail to make the suit more unique to Supergirl and still not have it be a skirt. And no, maybe it wouldn't be a suit that has ever been shown in the comics for her, but I really don't know why we couldn't expect the suit, along with the stories, to be changed to help evolve the character.

As far as the show ending well, the bar for success at the CW seems to be set at a level that is pretty easily attainable. And if poor writing and production hasn't sunk the show by now, I'm fairly certain that a suit change won't do it.
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People seem to forget that despite the best efforts to freshen up / modernise / make more comfortable the look and to please Melissa and the brass, that it is still a raging dumpster fire. Putting it under different lighting still doesn't polish it any more or make it any more favourable. A dookie is still a dookie.




There is no reason to call it a dumpster fire, especially repeatedly, or compare it to a "dookie". And by saying "people seem to forget", you make it seem like your opinions are the objective fact, rather than what they are, which is your subjective opinion. Again, I'm not the biggest fan of the suit. I'd prefer the old suit. But I acknowledge that there are people out there that seem to legitimately love it.

And calling Melissa's appearance "tired an haggard"? Was there really a reason for that? Not to mention that she's probably more rested than she's been in years, because it's the beginning of the season, and this is the first time she hasn't done a film, tv show, or broadway show during her summer hiatus.

I'm not trying to insult you, or anything like that. I'm merely expressing that when you state your opinions in a seemingly disrespectful manner, I can't take the post seriously, and it discredits some of your legitimate points.
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@Romulus, the post was getting big, so I am not quoting you.

Thank you for your kind reply.

I have not been happy with how the show has been going since S2. With a few exceptions anyways. (But a lot of the audience do seem to like it and consider fourth the best season. And they may have their tastes.)

Irrespective of that, I don't agree with your underlying assumptions about the reasons for the show's direction and Melissa when there is nothing much to backup these points. That was what I wanted to say. It doesn't matter the actors are under gag orders. They haven't said it. Hence, it is not to be assumed.

There are certain implied assumptions that we make about women and that ends up being displayed in situations such as this. And, at times, they are more latent and we make them unaware.

Thus, I was not asking you to mince your words. I was asking you to examine your assumptions. I never considered it a malicious attack on Melissa made intentionally to hurt. I just consider that the underlying assumptions were sexist and gendered (all of them including about her looks). And disrespectful.

Were you asking Stephen and Grant to start a family since their shows are bad? Or any guy who got engaged and was having a bad show in your opinion but popular in general?

If you were asking them to do that, well then. I stand corrected and I apologise.

If not, I stand by my statement.
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@SSAV and @Kelly:

Thank you for your insights and comments. I will address them quickly to keep the dull roar down.

1) Stereotypical assumptions - no. I would ask the same of male actors. It's just that society in general skews the responses / reactions that way. Heck, I'd ask any male lead the same thing and if they balked, I'd rake 'em over the coals. Twice as hard.

2) Starting a family - this was added simply because Melissa has already stated this desire in an interview. I am only giving a valid set of reasons why she may wish to opt out of SG after this season. Again, like my previous point, I'd ask the same of male actors. Given the huge workload, and increasingly inherent problems with the show, I simply stated that she might consider this option. It's not a demand, nor an assumption that she will or won't do this.



So, when they made changes to Flash's costume, you automatically assumed he would be leaving the show soon to have a family????? Really????

It's not about "asking" the question.....it is about the "automatic go to" in this case. NO ONE, (well some called foul on the suit changes for Flash, yes) automatically had the "thinking" whelp this is the end of that and I bet he wants to have a family.

What interview did she state wanting a family with Chris, the only time I've seen her asked about a family was the interview on Kelly Ripa's show (don't remember which co-host she had at the time) and was asked that and she said she had children.....her dogs.
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The type of attitude that has caused the pushback and sharp reactions is the over-reaction of some users to it. Old-fashioned values are not "bad" or "good." Hard work, decency, fairness, and goodwill toward others are old-fashioned and "out of touch." Do you dismiss them as weak or out of place in today's world? Many of the PC and equality debates and current ideology would tend to project that impression. And that is why it doesn't have widespread support across genders.

Many males would love to lend a helping hand (and many do) to right the ship and correct social injustices, so to speak, but they continually get slapped away as misguided, old-fashioned, out of touch or weak by the very people they're trying to help...
The path to gender equality should never be at the expense of another's and it is paramount that all genders be recognized as important components, with equal value, in that pursuit. That said, there are many reasons why social equality doesn't have widespread support across genders and this feeling by some that you mention may be a part of the reason, but in no means would I argue that it is the reason.

We are a society that loves our labels as a go-to for communication across mediums, but the problem that arises out of relying on this as a means of expression is that our intent gets blurred and dismissed in the process. I agree with you that values such as hard work, decency, fairness and goodwill are important and that yes, those values have been a part of many cultures since societies began forming. But, those are human values not values that should be credited to one generation or another and as such should continue as long as humans continue to exist.

As Kara Danvers it works very well and is within character. It projects confidence and ability. Most females can relate to this. As the Supergirl character, it does not mesh. It eliminates her femininity and genericises her at best. Don't shoot me for saying being feminine isn't "good" or "bad", it simply is. Gender exists for a reason (be it by creation or evolution - you choose).
Yes, gender exists for a reason, a biological reason that's necessarily for continuation of population growth and avoidance of human extinction. That has absolutely nothing to do with social norms such as clothing that was assigned to one gender by another based on the assigning gender's preference. In fact, if you examine ancient history, both men and women used to wear the same attire and at one point, no matter if you follow creation or evolution, clothing wasn't even utilized.

On the other side of the conversation, I don't agree with Melissa and/or the producers comment that not wearing a skirt makes one more adult-like. Again, that is a misconception stemmed out of a bias of relying too much on one's inner social group. In my opinion, it's a very superficial belief to think that clothing in any form defines one's attributes and capabilities as a human being. That example is just one in the show's approach that teeters between wanting to be a vehicle for social messaging yet still relying so heavily on surface level, unoriginal, socially defined labels and values in its story-telling that limits them from actually having any real relevance or credibility.
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There is going to be times where it looks like that for gender equality it is at the expense of the other, simply because the other for centuries has had the upper hand. In this country it has only been 100 years of Women having the right to vote, and we are "just now" getting solid representation in our government. So please, do not talk to me about........oooooh, I call foul because you say you want equality, and it is at my expense as a man. Um, nooooo......just having to push back because it has been a full on battle to even get to where we are now, and still FAAAAAAAAAAAAR from being equal in many areas of society. So, I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy where that is concerned. We are not going to gain equality without men losing something, sorry......it is just how it is. That loss is not something that degrades men, that is not what is happening. That loss is simply women gaining the power to speak for themselves, to make decisions for themselves, to be given the right to change things because they see and feel the need to do so. The equality comes with allowing change, it isn't about taking something away...it is about giving something back that wasn't yours to begin with.
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There is going to be times where it looks like that for gender equality it is at the expense of the other, simply because the other for centuries has had the upper hand. In this country it has only been 100 years of Women having the right to vote, and we are "just now" getting solid representation in our government. So please, do not talk to me about........oooooh, I call foul because you say you want equality, and it is at my expense as a man. Um, nooooo......just having to push back because it has been a full on battle to even get to where we are now, and still FAAAAAAAAAAAAR from being equal in many areas of society. So, I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy where that is concerned. We are not going to gain equality without men losing something, sorry......it is just how it is.
I agree but think the last bit needs clarification. What men need to “lose” is the belief they are entitled to something because of their gender. I think most would agree that belief was false in the first place. Women are demanding men let go of that perception. 100 years ago when women in the US were enfranchised many men and yes some women thought it would be the country’s downfall, clearly it wasn’t. Every fight for equal rights requires the privileged to see enough value in equality and the non-privileged as humans to give up their perceived superiority for the greater good. That’s a necessary but difficult thing to do. Change, particularly if we weren’t the one who initiated it, is something humans in general are resistant to especially if we perceive we’re losing something. Nostalgia for the way things were when we grew up is a real and powerful feeling. It might help if men could flip the script and realize they are also gaining something, a more free society.
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@ Kelly and Brierronse:

@ Brierrose: Not disputing your points. Just saying that too much tinkering will be the show's undoing. That's all! It started with the wonky writing, dodgy science and plausibility issues, character additions and losses (although to be expected), then the suit change. What's next? What more can they snafu?

@ Kelly: Valid points. But, as seen in S4, the suit change works only if it's for a short duration (e.g. one-off super suit, anti-Kryptonite suit, etc.), it does not work well over an entire season.

As for the suit changes on other shows, that's precisely why I don't bother with them. That plus the fact that Arrow and the Flash have been unwatchable story-wise the last two seasons. Horrid writing on both. Arrow should have ended mercifully last year and the Flash, despite still being popular, is running on vapour creatively. Legends of Tomorrow is another kettle of fish I won't bother to get into here.

In all honesty, the show can end anytime the PTB deem it to be expendable - 7-year contracts or not. If it doesn't do well or some unforeseen factors come into play, they will cut their losses and move on. Like pro sports, a contract is only a document with numbers on it and money exchanging hands. Business is business - the spreadsheet and the bottom line are the law.

Although the old suit may have needed freshening up a bit, it should not have been ditched. The new suit does not make Melissa look more adult or more 21st Century - it makes her look completely generic and no different than every other spandex-clad superhero out there today. This is not a good thing. And, no, it has nothing to do with sexism or being stuck in one's one-track way of thinking - it has everything to do with iconic image and how it is projected to the viewers. Mess with that, especially with this character, and you're in troubled waters.

Melissa's comfort and well-being are certainly paramount considerations, but they can work with and around the inclement weather in Vancouver. They have the technology and access to materials and locations that would be less physically discomforting for her. What they lack is / was foresight to counteract the elements through shoot planning. This is much easier to do in Vancouver than Toronto or Montreal where inclement weather is much more severe and longer lasting.

So, please stop shaking your head and going OMG and believing that I'm taking a hissy. I'm not. What I am doing is showing very genuine concern for the choices the brass and the lead actor made regarding this switch. On one level, it's perfectly logical; but in another comic book-based vantage point (which is what the viewers are looking for), this one's a huge dud.
"Dance Of The Clairvoyants" - Pearl Jam, from the CD/LP/Download Gigaton. (2020)
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That's a nice list, Kiwi!

I'd probably rank the Slater version a little lower, as I prefer the more muted tones of the Benoist S1-4 version, which would be my #1.

Points for including Electra Woman & Dyna Girl. That brings back memories. :D My 7 year old self noticed that the actor who played their tech support guy, Frank (Norman Alden), sounded an awful lot like Aquaman from Super Friends (voiced by same).

Would it be too early to include Batwoman on the list? I have doubts about a lot of things, but they nailed the costume.

The Yvonne Craig Batgirl costume, like the Batman show itself, represented the era, that's for sure.
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@ kdogg87:

You wrote:

"1) The show ends. They would probably renew it for at least a shortened 6th season, just to give closure. And I would be okay with that, because back in season 1, I predicted this show would MAYBE get 3 seasons. I never imagined 5-6.

2) The other possibility is that the producers realize that the suit has had a detrimental effect on the show, and try to backpedal for a future season. I don't imagine them going back to the original suit, but maybe they'd create a new version that goes back to the skirted look. I don't personally see this happening, because they'd be going back to the same health, safety, and comfort concerns the original suit has. BUT...I have to acknowledge that at least it's a possibility."

*****

All very valid points and good reasoning on your part. Thanks for your insight. ;)

I never said I was going to bail on the show - I'm too heavily invested in it (since I made the initial pitch to Akiva Goldsman at WB back in 2007, which they - the CBS and the Berlanti cadre - eventually used around 75% of what I suggested in the pilot) and would like it to succeed and take it to new levels of storytelling. But, with all of the changes that have occurred over the years (some have succeeded and some have flopped badly), something has to give. This redesign is simply another big, unnecessary misstep along the way.

As an aside: There is nothing stopping the PTB from giving the series closure within 5 seasons. Many shows end before they get to season 5 and still manage to have a large following after the series ends. This would allow the Berlanti-verse to focus more (resources and talents) on their newest female-led creation, Batwoman.

Like I pointed out in my reply to Kelly and Brierrose, despite high ratings (by CW standards), Arrow and the Flash have hit their collective storytelling brick walls. They may have the male viewership numbers because we're generally none-too-bright gluttons for punishment and cohesive, plausible storytelling is a distant secondary consideration to the action sequences (meaning; things that go boom is good and things that logically develop story and plot are no-no's). Truth be told, the shows have suffered from horrid writing for at least two seasons and this indicates that the Berlanti model of show making is good for at least three seasons per show but they start to stumble badly thereafter.

In fairness, this isn't a criticism or Melissa or the actors and crews since they have done a nearly-miraculous job of pulling off the next-to-impossible for four consecutive seasons, but a collective, snowball effect result of poor decisions along the chain of command that have plagued the show since Season 1. Too many cooks have definitely spoiled the broth, so to speak.

No one is denying the need for Melissa's overall well-being and happiness to be taken into account. Also, no one is disputing the fact that Vancouver certainly isn't Los Angeles weather-wise. Try pulling this type of show filming outdoors in other parts of Canada in the winter - it simply cannot be done. But, I fear that tinkering with the very iconic image of the lead character will not succeed as they are hoping. The new look (suit and hair) is a raging, flaming dumpster fire mess and she looks completely haggard, burnt out, and is going through the motions.

I'm not saying that change was not needed, just not this particular type of tinkering. What they've (the PTB, wardrobe and Melissa) ultimately done is genericise her look to fit with the current general universe of spandex-clad superheroes. Now, there's no discernible difference between her and every other hero on the market. Maybe I'll be gladly and happily proven completely wrong, but in the long run, I suspect it will come into much more prominent play as the show eventually reaches the end of its natural life cycle.

What would have made much more sense would be to freshen up the Kara Danvers look but not tinker significantly with the super suit (other than having the occasional limited use back-up suit - i.e. Lena's Kryptonite suit, etc.). However, since you can't have one without the other, an overall sacrifice was made. Also, with the CoIE storyline being front and centre this season, and the likely merging of the universes, it was inevitable. Instead of killing off the character like in the original DC comic run, they've simply decided to kill off the "look." (Which, in essence, works out OK in comics but is not particularly successful on TV screens).

Logically, what the PTB at WB (never mind the Berlanti-verse shows) should consider is to end this series and then move on with dedicated, high speed to producing the proposed live action film with a completely new take, new cast and lead, new locale and new interpretation and iteration. And, since a Supergirl film is supposedly to be in the works for 2021-2022, now would be a very, very good time to get the production rolling at warp velocity in that direction.

This show and the cast in general deserves a proper, heartfelt send-off before Melissa burns out from the excessively heavy, demanding role workload and continually colossal poor decisions by the showrunners and the CW. This will also allow her to be free from a massively burdensome project to decide to start a family if she chooses to, and move on to other things. Release her and the cast from their contractual obligations.

Now is an excellent time to do it.
"Dance Of The Clairvoyants" - Pearl Jam, from the CD/LP/Download Gigaton. (2020)
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I'm sorry, I have a hard time seeing this as not coming off as a hissy fit among the bros. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong....but that is how it is coming off, and that is why I said what I said. I have to shake my head, because I don't have an actual response to any of this. I just think there is far too much wringing of hands of this. I see it as being looked at and treated far differently than the guys changes in their suits. As a woman, that is the lens that I look through, and that is what I see. Yes there was wringing of hands with the other shows suit changes, good lord....THE STRAP, THE STRAP, but the shows continue.

And I will end with, as long as Melissa wants play this character it will be on the CW. Has nothing to do with a suit, what happened in what season. They are going to do what they believe is right and needed, and it is their right to do it. This is a creative process, not a service to us. We are not a customer with "the customer is always right" rights.....we just aren't.

Do I hope that changes in the suit are bringing in changes to the use of Supergirl on her series? You bet, and if that means a change in the suit, then BRING IT ON! This is one time I can say screw history, I want more Supergirl on her series, and if this ushers that in........COOL. Again, I apologize is I come off as blah on people's sorrow of losing the skirt. I am simply calling it as I see it.
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There’s a lot of history with regards to women fighting for the right to wear pants. Since it helps to personalize history I’ll share some. My mother born in 1950 in Brooklyn, NY wasn’t allowed to wear pants to school until middle school. She was one of the girls who fought for that right. The character Supergirl was created when girls like my mom were expected to dress a certain way but even then they were fighting against that. Unfortunately girls are still fighting for the right to wear what they want and be comfortable. My cousin’s 14 year old daughter was dresscoded last school year for wearing a tank top. She was told her top was distracting to her male classmates. She appealed her suspension because she didn’t want it on her record and the schoolboard found the teacher had misinterpreted the school’s dress code. That’s right over 55 years after my mom fought for the right to wear pants to school her great niece is still fighting to wear comfortable cloths. Stories of girls getting sent home from school and being told their cloths are distracting to boys are unfortunately not uncommon. I have yet to find one story of a boy being sent home for a dress code violation. I have no problem with a school having a dress code but the fact is many of them place more restrictions on girls than boys and girls are far more likely to be the targets of enforcement. Melissa wanting to wear pants as Supergirl but wearing pants/skirts/dresses as Kara sends a positive message to girls. That message chose cloths that are comfortable and fit the situation not what others think you should wear.

The bottom line is this: I am not a fan of Melissa's choice for the new suit and think it will be hugely detrimental to the show in the long run for a variety of reasons. I may be proven wrong - and I hope I am - for the sake of the show, but it is a fait accompli (accomplished fact). She will wear it and she will be judged for it (whether it's a positive assessment or a negative one) by the viewers. Whether it empowers her or de-powers her, so to speak, is to be determined. These are current social conventional norms and values, but not necessarily mine. Rail against these injustices if you wish, but not against me.
@ Romulus please be aware when you say things like this it makes you seem at best out of touch. It’s that attitude that’s caused the pushback in this thread. It’s of course your right to have any values you chose. I ask you to think about how those values make you look and if that’s the image you’re proud to project.

On the topic of actresses getting asked about their plans to start a family that’s not something that should be asked in jest it’s just rude. If I asked a stranger, coworker, or acquaintance about their plans to start a family that would be considered incredibly rude. To reporters aren’t the actresses they interview strangers, colleagues, or at best acquaintances. For decades actresses like Melissa put up with this nonsense. When actresses and some actors pushed back the outcome wasn’t reporters asking the actors too it was dropping the question. So it’s fine to say well just ask everyone and that makes it ok but in fact that’s not what happened.
Hope, Help and Compassion for all
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@Sully,

Very good points. Note taken. But, given that we're all living within artificial socially defined parameters that have been created over centuries, you have to work with what you've got. If you intend to blow up / dismantle something, at least have a solid idea that is actually workable, palatable, and able to be implemented without resorting to soft reboots every year. (I.e. end this iteration / interpretation / show tinkering now and then produce a proper movie in 2021-2022 with said changes - with a different, fresh cast and iteration / interpretation from the get-go).

And, I agree with your point about the suit being adult bit. Again, it's a Hollywood interpretation and a particular agenda at play and they're not always exceptionally astute or on-point in this regard. In many respects, they're "old-fashioned" and "out of touch" with many issues. They try to be on-point, true, but sometimes (in this case, more often than not) the message gets lost in translation / interpretation and implementation.
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