The State of the Supergirl Fandom

It's a start. But I detest that he's turned this around to make himself the victim.

there is that formal apology you wanted and are now rejecting. WHY? step back a second and come at this with a fresh state of mind.

'Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that' - Martin Luthor King jr

I'm not rejecting it outright. I just would've preferred he kept it to an apology and not turn it around to make it about himself.

Like I said, it's hard to view it from a different perspective when this is something so personal to myself and many others.

What did he exactly do?

It's a start. But I detest that he's turned this around to make himself the victim.

there is that formal apology you wanted and are now rejecting. WHY? step back a second and come at this with a fresh state of mind.

'Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that' - Martin Luthor King jr

People speak of 'intentions' as if that's an excuse. Yes, they likely didn't intend to disrespect wlw viewers, but they did. Their actions were likely a direct result of those bad shippers, but yet it affected so many more people than said shippers. That's why there's such an outrage over it.

so you acknowledge the intent probably wasn't meant to be hurtful and still wont accept a 'weak' apology. An apology he literally said like 30 seconds later when upon reflection realized what he said and how it would be taken. forgiveness isnt something given because people deserve it, its something given because people need it. Perhaps you could be the bigger person, perhaps you could be the one to give forgiveness?

I do acknowledge it. But it's hard to forgive when this is the kind of stuff us lgbt folk live through on a day to day basis. And to get it from one of our favorite shows is painful on a personal level.

What kind of way of thinking is that? He made me feel shitty about my own sexuality but I haven't sent him any hurtful comments. So no, I haven't made him feel shitty about himself.

People speak of 'intentions' as if that's an excuse. Yes, they likely didn't intend to disrespect wlw viewers, but they did. Their actions were likely a direct result of those bad shippers, but yet it affected so many more people than said shippers. That's why there's such an outrage over it.

so you acknowledge the intent probably wasn't meant to be hurtful and still wont accept a 'weak' apology. An apology he literally said like 30 seconds later when upon reflection realized what he said and how it would be taken. forgiveness isnt something given because people deserve it, its something given because people need it. Perhaps you could be the bigger person, perhaps you could be the one to give forgiveness?

It's a start. But I detest that he's turned this around to make himself the victim.

People speak of 'intentions' as if that's an excuse. Yes, they likely didn't intend to disrespect wlw viewers, but they did. Their actions were likely a direct result of those bad shippers, but yet it affected so many more people than said shippers. That's why there's such an outrage over it.

did you guys see the entire interview? did you see the part where Jeremy says sorry? people arent perfect and sometimes make mistakes. is he to be damned anyway or is forgiven?

I did. But he literally knew how fans would react. He knew they'd be upset. Did he think his actions would actually hurt people? Likely no. But that doesn't negate the fact that people are hurt.

The fact that even after the theatrics Katie stepped in to continue to offer her support to the shippers but was interrupted by yet another hurtful anti-lgbt comment from the cast is ridiculous.

This situation has gotten way out of hand. If they can't acknowledge that what they did was wrong and hurtful to many non-shippers then they will continue to be 'damned'. I think they should offer some sort of 'formal apology'. To what extent of an apology, I don't know. But something meaningful is better than the weak apology we (lgbt viewers) got.

I think that joke had little to do with it being a lesbian ship and much more with the reputation that Kara/Lena shippers specifically have built for themselves for being rude, aggressive and unreasonable, because of the actions of several loud and active members. And while there are no doubt rude, aggressive and unreasonable fans for all other character combinations too, it seems the volume of the aggression in this particular ship happened to leave the most impression on the cast.

I'm sure if all Kara/Lena shippers up and left then some other group would take over the mantle of being the meanest and rudest. But right now it happens to be them because they are the loudest and most belligerent.

It's just hard for me to see people as fans when the first thing they do is turn around and trash Melissa's personal morals and relationship history. If you turn that much on a person you claimed to like just a day earlier, how much of a fan can you really be? Her supposed moral failings didn't bother you before.

It's a good example of the kind of tunnel vision shippers can get. Everything that is or seems in support of them gets blindly worshipped, Everything that is or seems to be in their way must be destroyed at all costs. Nothing else matters, just the ship and their personal feelings over being denied the ship.

Of course there is nothing wrong with shipping across sexuality lines, but if people are that rude and aggressive about it, can you really be surprised that you develop a negative reputation? Not because it's lesbian, but because of the rudeness involved? I'd like to think that shippers of straight couples who are that verbally abusive towards the cast, the show and fellow fans would also develop a negative reputation.

Yes some SC shippers take things too far, but so do some KM shippers (there are posts in this thread listing the things they have done). The fact that you refuse to accept that is baffling to me. How blinded can a person be?

The point is that volume matters. And that's why SC shippers have developed such a negative reputation apparently up to include the actual cast members.

Just because both sides of an argument have done some wrong, doesn't mean that they have done equal amounts of wrong. This is a false equivalency that people use all the times in politics.

Somebody else here posted a good potential explanation of why that is, that that isn't because SC shippers are inherently more immoral than let's say Sanvers shippers, but the circumstances put SC into where they are the aggressors while Karamel and Sanvers can be enjoyers of the show. They don't have as much of a need to change the show to their personal preferences because the show already delivers them their personal preferences. So they have less reason to be aggressive about it and attack the show and the people who make it.

Some are still belligerent and plenty of SC are not belligerent, but in general is seems that SC shippers are the loudest at the moment up to the extent that even cast members who are not directly involved in the conflict (the way Melissa, Katie, Chris and Rahul were) have heard of their negative reputation.

If let's say fans of Winn and Kara had as many instances of fans being mean and aggressive and demanding their couple get together or at least for Winn and Kara to never have any other partners then that fanbase would be the one that creeps out the cast.

did you guys see the entire interview? did you see the part where Jeremy says sorry? people arent perfect and sometimes make mistakes. is he to be damned anyway or is he forgiven?

"That's fair, you're right. Let me rephrase: You do not get to tell us that we should 'see both sides' when Jeremy and Melissa and others literally laughed at a lesbian ship."

Again, Jordan... I never told "y'all," not even insinuated y'all had to even look at the other side. In fact, I wasn't even addressing you. Heck, I wasn't even speaking to anyone in plarticular. I was simply saying I wasn't fully understanding why there was controversy afoot....that I might be seeing something different in what "occurred."

And here is an other example of what we non-shippers have been exhausted about....one can't even make a comment these days that might have a different perspective without being jumped.

I saw foul, vile comments starting RIGHT at the get go this morning coming from angry Katie fans, simply because SHE wasn't sitting on this couch, or because she was sitting in that 2nd row. Example: "Why didn' t you sit our queen on the couch, you dumb f...." Y'all can fill in the rest.

I truly don't think Jeremy Jordan, who's gay niece he fought for last summer to get her out of a so-called "rehabilitation" program," was making fun of SuperCorp because it's an LGBTQ shipdom.

SSAV

You are not cheesy. What you wrote was straightforward, easy to understand, and reflects a true values influenced life. (Thanks to your parents.) we do not need to be a member of a particular sect or general belief to respect other opinions. Secularists can hold moral,codes as much as religious individuals. What you stated is important.

Thank you,

Argo

It's not a state of the fandom post; more, what I have learnt from this fandom post. Read on if you will.
So. I had prepared something for this forum, and then, decided against posting it because I felt it would come off as corny. Or cheesy?
But, now, I have decided that I should. Just to show appreciation. Even if it does come across as corny or cheesy.
I came into this forum (and Superherohype) last year after it was announced that Alex was going to be gay. I didn't like that development for personal reasons, but when I came over here and read the posts against it... well.. let us say... I reacted badly. And came in with guns blazing on why it is perfectly okay for Alex to be gay.
That has been my nearly first experience of interacting within a fandom; even interacting online (except for one or two comments here and there that nobody noticed).
Even now, my experience online is limited. I don't follow Supergirl on twitter, for example. And on tumblr, I follow very few people. So, yeah... what I say would seem weird.

But, so far, my personal experience online in this fandom has only led to great learning. It has expanded my thinking enough for me to even help in every day life. I have learnt that:

a. One aspect of a person does not define that person. There is no reason to judge them based on that even if you dislike that particular aspect. There may be many other aspects of them that you can like and even love. If I don't agree with them on that one thing, I can just point that out once, and then move on and focus on the things I like about them.

For example: This is not from the show; my parents are mildly homophobic; as in, they don't mind other people being gay or getting married or whatever, but they don't want me to be gay (and I am pretty sure they won't care all that much for gay representation). And, I am gay. But, I do still love them despite that. Because they are wonderful people who have taught me the best I know irrespective of that.
When, it comes to online, it is easy to lose sight of this, I think.
At least, I do it.... And then, I when i see more of these online people, I notice so many other great things about them.. And I try to focus on that. But, it is not always possible (we may only have an instant to form judgment). So, it is best to just ignore (or at least, not form judgments).

b. People experience the world differently. There as many world experiences (and if you put a Hindu spin on it; as many worlds) as there are people. One is not more important than the other.
Yes, there are some basic values that we all should work towards: More kindness and compassion, better working together, more inclusiveness, more freedom; peace!. But...even with those basic values in mind, people may see things differently. And that is okay.

c. What people like and dislike in a show (or in general) is a reflection of a sliver of their personality and experience. It is NOT a reflection of what they think about my personality, experience and likes and dislikes.

d. Shows, folks. people, all are complex. Real life is complex. You can't fit them into black and white, yes or no, bad and good (in a way that fits everyone, every time, at every place). (This appears to be a corollary of a).

None of this precludes discussions by the way. I think the way most folks in this thread have discussed things is wonderful! I have learnt a lot from that too.

Oh... and I am not exactly saying that I didn't know all this before. I did..mostly theoretically. It's quite another thing to actually experience it.
(And this is not a lecture on you all: I am always worried about how I saw come across online, so I try and insert that every time. If you disagree with all or most of it, that is fine. And that doesn't change what I think. Or, have learnt. )

And I am happy that I took that step last year... and I am happy to be here.

Bows to you all!

I don't know about anyone else but I am oh so ready to move on from reading about "ships" and "shipper fandom" and the amount of dislike for certain characters. It will be extra nice to hear from the cast (those people that actually entertain us) @ SDCC on Saturday with thoughts on their characters and hopefully some tidbits about Season 3.

Bring on Supergirl vs Reign in Season 3, that's what I'm anticipating the most.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN......

But the big difference in all of these relationships is that they aren't being touted as the main relationship. Jack/Lena were barely given anything. Alex/Kara have shown how intense their relationship is, and those scenes aren't shown with quirky music in the background (like the DEO fight scene between Kara/Mon-El), they're meant to be serious and are shown as such. The writers have a bad habit of making light of the questionably problematic scenes between Kara and Mon-El; they shouldn't.

See, I deeply, deeply, disagree with that. The Jack/Lena scene was absolutely played out as very light hearted as well, as were a variety of scenes where Kara was "threatening" Mon-El with physical violence. And yet, it's only Mon-El that gets called toxic and an abuser by some. Directly, him the character. Not "the writing was too lighthearted in that scene, they shouldn't do that anymore in future scenes" but "Mon-El is evil and that's why he needs to leave and he is irredeemable". But again, by the same standard, Lena, who according to the show throw a hard object at her lover during a fight is not considered abusive and irreemable. Even though this is something that is part of her character and her history. If people assure me that Mon-El is evil and could never be a good guy, why should I believe that Lena could ever be a good guy then?

A lot of people use these scenes to lay complaint at the character. They judge the character and even worse they lay final judgement at the character. They don't accept any alternative interpretations and they also don't accept if the show moves on from that.

And no, the show hasn't at this point seriously adressed just how dark Alex sometimes gets. Alex was frequently shown drinking in ways that made her seem like an alcoholic, she has many times brutalized unarmed suspects (which was also often played for laughs), even ones who were already handcuffed, she has lied to Kara for years and used to shame Kara into hiding her powers (for Kara's own protection of course).

If we applied real life standards to Alex, Alex would be a horrible person. Picture the scene between Alex and Kara where Alex teaches Kara about fighting better as a father doing that with a son to "toughen him up". Would we really be rooting for them to hug it out and have cute sister moments at the end or would we be rooting for Kara to distance herself from that person?

I don't think that just because Kara and Mon-El traded kisses and somehow that translates to "status" in the mind of some people, that justifies why this character is the only character who should have those over the top harsh "realistic" standards applied to them when all other characters, even those who are being shipped romantically don't have those standards applied to them.

I don't consider myself a hardcore Mon-El fan. I like him well enough. But the way some of those anti-fans voice their dislike is just ridiculous to me. To me there are many complaints against Mon-El that to me have a lot more validity, like being boring or having too much screentime. So the way that some people exist that just obsess over this one angle which to me just doesn't have sufficient merit is just way more unsettling to me than anything I've ever seen on Supergirl.

The sentence I bolded really hit the nail on the head! I pretty much agree with you here. I just find it unfortunate for those who can no longer enjoy a show that once brought them joy.

But you can't make everybody happy. Kill off Mon-El, you make some people happy, you make others unhappy. Make Alex gay, you make some people happy, and others unhappy. You will never make all people in the world happy and I don't see what point there is to spend that much energy to make sure that every person in the universe is 100% happy with a fictional tv show.

I really enjoy Supergirl the show, I also like her in comics. If the show went into a direction I didn't like I would just bow out though.

People who don't have "agenda", if they don't like something, most of them move on and find something else. Supergirl is a lovely show, but there are many other shows out there, especially if you consider all the shows from the past like Buffy or Xena or Wonderwoman who are available via streaming or DVD, or various DC cartoon shows. Maybe if they took a breather and then came back they would realize that the things they thought were so horrible are a lot less severe than they initially seemed. Sometimes a bit of distance makes the heart grow fonder.

And if people have serious psychological backstory problems then we can't fix them. The show can't fix them. They are not their psychiatrists, the show are not their psychiatrists, the actors are not their psychiatrists. Of course it's a pity for every person who leaves, but you can't account for every potential version of preferences. And I don't see what the point is in obsessing over them. 12 Million people watched the first episode of Supergirl. Many of them didn't even watch the second episode. Only about half of them watched the season 1 finale, all before Mon-El was a character. Should we obsess over winning back every single one of them too? If the show would get more ratings if Melissa took her shirt off, or if they made Alex date men, should the show do that?

Like I said, if that person was a personal friend who asked you for a favor to act differently, of course you would do that if you are a nice person. But as a person you normally have a limited amount of friends and hence probably a limited amount of friends with traumatic backgrounds who make special requests of you. That just isn't the case on a tv show. And to me it just makes no sense to eternally obsess over those people. If a scene traumatized them, maybe they really should stop watching. Or take a break and come back with some distance.

No show is ever going to make everybody happy. Some people want more action, othes want more romance or more characters having deep talks. Some people want more characters from the comics books, others don't care. There will always be as many different tastes and as many personal stories as people watching.

And yeah, I'm also quite sick about talking about this, but the reason why I keep doing it is because I keep coming across people who say stuff that just strikes me as deeply unfair.

Kelly, I don't necessarily agree with all of it but it is a very detailed description of what you think makes up the Supergirl fandom.

It is from what Ive read and seen on different sites, twitter and tumblr....over the past 5 months ...

Aaaand that's a mic drop from Kelly ?

Thank you Kelly.....very well said!!

Dude...right on, Kelly! I couldn't have said it better, myself!