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  4. Tuesday, 21 February 2017
Good evening everyone. Let me start this post off by saying I am not equipped to handle this topic correctly or justly. I am going to tread as softly as I can and I would also like to note that any name-calling, anti-LGBT language or offense to the mandatory rules required to use this forum will be met with swift and appropriate consequences.

So with that said, I have noticed a growing divide in the Supergirl fandom this season and I need help understanding it. While this site and its users have kept things predominately fair and respectful, many other social media platforms seem to be pitting fans against each other for liking different aspects of the show.

Before I name sides and begin to try and find a reason behind the animosity lets name some of the changes that have happened between season 1 and season 2 first.

  • The Show has gained some characters and lost some characters.
  • The Show is on a new network.
  • The Show's survival isn't uncertain.
  • Supergirl.tv has grown to reach a larger audience.
  • Our social media presence has tripped since season one.

I want to illustrate these changes first because my perception of this fandom divide may have always been there and due to the above mentioned circumstances, I am just now becoming aware of it. But if these reasons are not the cause to my illumination then I am concerned.

Season 1 is different from season 2 for many reasons and that is just the nature of broadcast television. However, fans (and let me be clear I am not calling anyone out on this site) were more supportive. It felt like we were all an audience of a show that brought us together and we all shared a love for a growing hero's story. Despite plot-lines, rough early writing and power fluctuations, we all were able to comment on parts of the show we didn't like while still stating our love for the show.

Where has that gone?

In Season 2, the show has decided to cover more topics in a superheroes life some of which are more progressive leaning. A show with purpose and the platform to conquer tough issues while still maintaining its entertaining nature seems like a good thing, yet I feel we as fans are more divided than ever.

Put simply, if you like Maggie Sawyer and Alex Danver's relationship, why don't you like Mon-El? If you're a Lena supporter, why do you hate Guardian's screen-time? Why can't an episode be good if it doesn't have Cat Grant in it? Obviously these are all just examples of the absolutist feelings we are seeing out there. There are many other examples that don't need to be shared to illustrate my point.

Somewhere along the line sides were drawn and a solid fan-base became split. This is where things get very tricky for me. It's the reason I say I am not equipped to handle this topic and where I will choose to ask to be educated rather than seek a solution.

Appropriate and positive representation of the LGBT community on television has been lacking for many many years. There are legitimate concerns with how LGBT community members are portrayed in the media from stereotyping, senseless deaths, and even screen-time. Obviously the Maggie and Alex story-line falls into this category of LGBT representation in the media which is why begin to ask for clarity.

When did there become an attitude of absolution? Many of the comments I see on social media are of the nature that say "my view is right, yours is wrong and no one supports you because what I want is what everyone wants". In season 1 it felt like we were all able to say, "I didn't care for aspect X but I still enjoy the show and can afford that others may enjoy aspect X knowing that it still didn't resonate with me."

There are concerns here, however, for equality. Is a positive LGBT relationship being given appropriate screen-time to maintain its positive message? That is not for me to decide but can be a valuable reason to be concerned over screen-time. It however, shouldn't mean that other story-lines in the show shouldn't be told.

Perhaps I am letting social media get the better of me. Because of our site's growth, I am seeing exponentially more messages than I used to. Maybe this divide isn't really there and I am just succumbing to internet trolls. Trolls don't need to back up their absolutist declarations, they just submit them like breathing.

All in all, I just don't understand the new feelings of this fandom taking sides. The show has problems without a doubt, but it isn't bad enough that we need to take sides. Perhaps there are too many story-lines going on this season or too many new characters or even a lack of focus on an overarching season goal. But in the end can't we do like Kara did in Myriad and be stronger together?

I am not sure what its going to take to heal this fandom, or if it even needs to be healed or united but based solely on my perception, we were a united group of fans last season and it pains me to see this growing divide this year.

To clarify my point, I am in no way saying that I am disappointed in any of our very valued users here as you all have made this site's community a bright and caring group of people. I am reflecting more on what happens outside our proverbial site walls.

Do you have any ideas what can be done? ... El May Arah
You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun, Kal. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders.
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Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.





this right here is an example that causes divisiveness. A blank statement of "he is becoming the second lead" as the OP mentioned without any backup. fact is he was barely in "Martian Chronicles" and "the Luthors". Leads dont go missing for whole episodes like that.

I know I have ranted a few times about guardian but I would never begrudge or think less of someone if they liked the Guardian.
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First off I’d like to start by thanking the admins of this site. Next I would like to thank my fellow contributors for keeping it the most respectful fan site I have belonged to in a long time. People have disagreed with me but never once have I felt it was personal nor has anyone taken it personally when I disagree with them. I’m not on twitter but have recently quit the FB pages of every other Supergirl site but this one and the official site from CW, and I am seriously considering ditching that one.

Cat said it last season “A woman has to work twice as hard to be thought of as half as good”. The fact that we are getting a third season is a testament to the cast, crew, and as much as we love to hate them the writers. I read somewhere that the show almost didn’t happen because some people in a focus group saw the pilot and were “uncomfortable” with Supergirl being punched by a man. I believe it’s unprecedented for a show with ratings as high to change networks, so that’s yet another challenge.

I do think some of the fandom division mirrors the current deeply divided social/political climate in the United States. Arrow is too dark for me but I do watch Flash and occasionally Legends but it seems that of all the shows in the Berlantiverse Supergirl is the one chosen to be more than just entertainment, they want it to mean something. It’s the only one that really tackles hot button issues. Example, it would be pure denial to think having Mxy call Supergirl a Nasty Woman wouldn’t be seen as a political statement. Side note Melissa probably enjoyed that as well as being able to say “you want to see nuts, let’s go nuts”. I know that type of thing’s not on Flash. Bottom line addressing or even mentioning hot button social issues is going to attract irrational haters and season two has stepped that up.

The most hate seems to be reserved for James and Mon-El and I think there’s a connection. First there were haters who didn’t like Mehcad being cast in the first place. The fact that James wasn’t written well compared to the other characters in season one and I think it’s safe to say hasn’t been written better in season two only fuels the James haters. Mon-El on the other hand is well written, you don’t have to like a character to think they are well written. I think the show did a disservice to both characters by the abrupt end to James/Kara. I get how it looks bad to have Kara break up with the human guy representing a minority group because she wants to concentrate on her career only to hook up with the an alien guy who’s racially speaking the closest to her in the universe. This caused some of the Mon-El hate right out of the gate. I wouldn’t have liked this either if I thought the producers were racially motivated but I just don’t see that given their track record. It would have been better if the writers had had Kara and James go on a couple of awkward dates then mutually decide to go back to being good friends thus avoiding the James verses Mon-El thing.

I’ll admit last summer when the EPs said a character on the CW DC shows would explore their sexuality I had no doubt it would be Alex. My first reaction was please don’t, because I thought of all the ways it would bring hate upon the show. I imagined the writers botching it and the LGBTQ community rightfully being disappointed. Thanks be to Rao that didn’t happen as most agree the story line was well written and superbly acted. Unfortunately the other expected hate is still happening.

In final summery love this site and let’s continue the constructive discussions.
Hope, Help and Compassion for all
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Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.





I'm definitely following your argument here, Lindy. I have to wonder...we the audience already know something isn't "right" with Mon-el...he's been lying. So perhaps a lot of focus is being given to Mon-El because his backstory/lie is about to alter Kara in a big way...i.e...she FINALLY lets herself feel and believe that she can let her guard down, let someone in, and "have everything." Then...BAM! The truth comes out. So...I'm right there with you on wishing all these side characters weren't pulling screen time away from the OG crew. But, I see where the writers MIGHT be headed...and thus I can see why perhaps SO much time is being given to Mon-El.

I just wish all breaking off "fandoms" could remember the BIG picture. We shall see.
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As an additional practical issue, last season it would have been far more difficult to have divisive subfandoms, because the number of characters who were prominent was less. In the pilot, other than Kara you might have had Miss Grant fandom (continuing character) or Vartox fandom (self-liquidating). The authors are moving toward a show with interwoven threads as opposed to Supergirl finds target. Supergirl smites target, so now there can be gentle readers who want one thread or another to get more air time and interviews.

Readers who were around in Fall 2015 will nonetheless remember that we had some really vigorous disputes on these pages.
I was here, and it was nothing like what we are seeing today, last season it was mostly the "sky is falling" group hovering over the ratings, and those that just wanted to enjoy the show. Or, those that were unhappy with some of the writing, other than that...there just wasn't much in the way of divisiveness. On twitter, it was fantastic, the fans on twitter save a few, again, "the sky is falling" people it was a great time to be had by all.

One thing I've noticed....and it just now hit me, there are a few from the "sky is falling" over the ratings that NOW that we already know there is a 3rd season, they are no where to be seen. Ehhhh.... *sighs*
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I wish I could be of some help here. was the Valentine's day episode, after all. One might have proposed that therefore each of these events we saw peaked for this episode and we will be seeing something else at least more in the future. To satisfy all the readers, the shows would need to be three hours long. Daily. It seems to me that the threads here have mostly been reasonable, even on a topic as delicate as the one noted by the administrator. However, please be nice, everyone. It matters.I write as someone who made a few suggestions last year about the rules as written, and occasionally has suggested things this year.

Having said that, let me urge you all to punch up the "support" button if you enjoy being here.
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Also this site is awesome. Thanks admin very much for providing such a service.
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Well, everybody is the result of their life experiences and values, so comparaison is always going to be part of the exchanges betwin people. But as an individual i'm aware that what i think today maybe not be the same tomorrow because of the masses of experiences i keep having. That's why even if its relevant to give an opinion about something i like or not, i don't find useful to compare situations and characters.

I read a lot of comments about the writing, but i'm one who think that there are a lot of layers between what is in the mind of the writer and what's delivered.
The actors have a part to do with it (and that is probably why i like Melissa Benoist interpretation of Kara so much and maybe someone else could have a total different effect on ma vision of the show).
You can say one ligne of dialog in many differents ways an it's not going to say the same thing. You can said it the same way everytime and not hear the same thing either. Everything is subjectif and very personal in that departement for me.
At that you can add the directors have also a big part to play etc...

Anyway the advice for getting back to a comunity is to enjoy what you like and not focus your energy towards what you don't like. (i hope i speak english by the way!)
I would spend all of my days on set watching the show being made
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I have seen a great many comments here and elsewhere saying Mon El-Kara ship is great because Mon-El's and Kara's (or Chris' and Melissa's) chemistry is great.

That is a pretty good reason for falling for someone. a. the on-screen chemistry is great. b. he is funny.

Think of it from the POV of a Kara-James shipper.

She dropped a perfectly great guy for someone who is a jerk and who is also in this culture, the epitome of white privilege. (As I said before, she didn't stay firm on that whole focusing on her career bit for long.)

If you don't see yourself represented in a leading way all that much, and if you see yourself being powerless in a lot of situations and being discriminated against just because of your colour, and you see the same thing enacted on screen. (or even a nerd, in the case, of Winn).

It's a story and story has effects on people. In real-life, you could say you fall for whom you will, but in stories, what you show is a choice from the show-runners. In real-life, you could say that Kara could not hold to her promise to explore her career and being single further, that you could have both at the same time, but in the story, the message you are saying is that Kara cannot be happy being single.

See how lonely she was before she confessed her liking for Mon El. It is not because her friends were abandoning for their own things (which would have been a great reason that they could have explored), it was because she had no romance in her life. Even her missing Alex is because, Alex says, she is trying not to focus on Mon El. Owing to her abandonment issues. Not because she misses her sister who has been with her from the day she landed on earth and was now spending all her free time with her new love, but because she has feelings for Mon El, which she is trying to ignore. Not because her sister missed her earth birthday, the day which would have officially marked that she has spent more time with Danvers and on Earth than with her own parents and her planet, (13 as opposed to 12).

Besides, you can't have it both ways. When people point out the abusive and rather harmful messages embedded in the show, you can't say "Oh! This is just a TV show and fictional characters; people, should not bother so much" (to put it gently) and then, when you point out how the story doesn't work because messaging is weird that "But, this is how it happens in real life. People may make resolutions but fail them all the time."

I am not attacking Kara-Mon El ships here. I am just listing out the POVs. Though, as far as Mon El is concerned most of it match (except, I used to like him and I like Chris Wood).

Besides, there is chemistry.

Speaking of that.

Kara-Lena shippers and how they hate Mon El so much.

Think of it from their perspective:

If Lena was a guy, and he had the same chemistry with Kara--basically, what is going on with Mon El (the actors, I mean)--the show would have gone for that relationship. Like Monica and Chandler.

Instead, just because Lena is a woman the show-runners wouldn't. And a lot of folks' attitude to Kara-Lena shippers is at best "Oh, those poor delusional folks..." and at worst "Why do they want more? Don't they have a gay character already? This is a straight show." May be said a bit more politely.

The above appears very condescending to gay folks. It is like they are being told: "Hey! We gave you one character! Be happy with it. Just how demanding are you?". The message is: This is a world of straight people, made for straight folks, and any scraps they get, the gay people should be grateful for it."

Or... "Why don't they just make shows for themselves, then?"

If, the show-runners could make a gay Supergirl and have the show survive then that would be a miracle. More so than POC although, I think it works quite to a great extent there too. We would have seen a proliferation of minority-based shows if those were really a lucrative option.

[Basically, this is the story of every minority people who want to see themselves in the stories they consume. It's their powerlessness. Any right they have, any happiness they could get, can be taken away at the whim of the majority. And the powerful, some of them, think that the little bit of representation they get is just enough or some times too much. An implied, "Take it where we can't see it." Basically, they (we, really, I am gay, POC, woman, and yeah most of the time aromantic :) ) have to fight for stuff which a lot of people get without asking. And even after the fighting, what they have is fragile and can be taken away so very easily.]

When you get comments like that directed at you, the dislike you feel for a Kara-Mon El ship is quite understandable. Even if you know, quite positively, that Kara-Lena ship is never going to happen in Canon. Even if you know that Alex is a secondary character and Maggie a tertiary character, so Alex-Maggie is never going to get much screen time when compared to the cis-het ship. Even if you know that, may be, just may be, Mehcad Brooks had more chemistry with Kara as a friend than as a romantic interest. Although, in James' case, it may be possible that folks are still hopeful of a potential romance there. I don't know.

As for the people who employ bullying in twitter and elsewhere, well, they are, as Everafr said possibly kids. Hopefully. If not. Well, hope they get better, but, I won't get into a relationship with them, if they promise to do better based just on that promise. ;-)

And none of this is a whole lot of how the group in which I fall feel. Not to mention I myself feel. :)
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Great comments from our members. Good reading. Keep it up. :)
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As for people who miss Cat Grant and M'gann (you didn't add her, I did):

The show has four regular male characters, and two female characters and people still think it is female skewing. Some of the comments suggest "That we men need something too." Even though, we barely have any woman other than Alex sharing screen time with Kara (unless, it is the Lena beat that happens at times). We have no Kara supporting M'gann. Instead, it is just J'onn supporting M'gann. (We didn't even get an Alex supporting M'gann directly. or much of an interaction therein. Her support was for J'onn.).

Oh... and we even have M'gann in that support telling to J'onn "You showed me how to be brave." M'gann, the person, who stood up to an entire powerful race and refused to do their bidding, M'gann, who went up against her own culture alone because she was standing up for what she believed, in telling J'onn that he showed her how to be brave. Because he stood up to a couple of White Martians with the help of powerful friends.

The dialogue would have made sense if M'gann had said "You showed me how to forgive myself." But not, the inspiration was bravery.

So,.. That feminist theme. Seems pretty lacking what with all the story of Guardian, Kara spending most of her time with Mon El and all the focus, since the first episode on Kara-Mon El, and whatever time allotted to M'gann being devoted to J'onn-M'gann.

Along with some of the criticism above and in my previous comments, what I have an issue with is the lack of Danvers sisters time, lack of friend time and the lack of a coherent story. And how out of character some from S1 appears to be.

Alex seems to no longer care to spend time with Kara. She keeps letting Kara go on missions alone with no support or strategic input. And when Kara, just once, says she would like to spend time with her, Alex says that "Kara is trying to make her guilt" (that was the White Martian, but he/she/it was channeling Alex) and then, later, says that Kara is not really missing Alex, but Mon El.

In the previous episode, when her city's safety and her sister's life's happiness was at stake, Alex was away in her valentines' day angst. We don't get to see her giving Kara any support at all (except for the Mon-El is jealous comment; it was not typical S1 support.)

Oh... and Mon El has taken over as Kara's side-kick. Rather than Alex. It is no longer the sister duo crime-fighting team; it is the Alien couple crime-fighting team. That is what they said in this last episode anyways.

Oh and neither Alex, nor Kara, nor J'onn seems to care what happened to Jeremiah. There is no indication at all that they are searching for him.

And Kara has been spending most of her time getting Mon El to be a hero. (The few minutes that are not part of the Cadmus story where she spends time with Lena, or the other few minutes, when she spends with Guardian).

She professes to want to be a journalist at the start of the season, but we barely see any of that. Except when it is expedient for the show to have the Cadmus and Lena storyline.

And in my opinion, they could have made the Mon El story a lot more compelling. They didn't do that. They could have shown his struggle instead of showing some funny lines and then, basically making him a brat (fratboy) who "supposedly" learns to care for other people (though, so far, we have seen him care only for his romantic interest). We barely see any of that. So, basically, the only reason for a viewer to invest on him is that a. he is funny. b. he has chemistry with Melissa. c.He was a rather ordinary selfish guy who is now trying to be good.

They could have shown it from her POV, why she liked him. (I saw suggestions in another site where they said the show could have at least suggested that, she is going with Mon El, because she can have intimacy with him without fear of crushing him; which is a very valid point; and that she is probably overlooking a great many things just for some form of that; Or, may be, she wants to discuss Krypton with him.. and she has some feeling of unwarranted closeness with him because of Rao (their shared religion or affinity to star or something). But, she says none of that; the show doesn't show that. The show only shows his POV with her succumbing to it.)

And... Aside from Cadmus storyline (which I don't know how they will treat), the rest of the season is about Mon El and the folks who come searching for him. So, basically, 60-70% of the season is Kara-Mon El romance and the fall out. With most of it from his POV (that is the third or fourth time I am saying it; I am getting repetitive and I am bored with myself.).

How does the line "this season and this show is at its core about relationships between women and how they support each other" gel with that?

I think if the Mon El story was compelling enough and not a repeat of such a tired cliche, most people would have supported the eventual romance (at least, that is the inkling I get). Especially, if it didn't take so much time away from the women and Alex-Kara, Alex-Kara-J'onn and Kara and her friends. It's not as if gay people don't support or ship straight ships. They wouldn't have survived otherwise. Ditto for POC. It's not as if they don't see or enjoy a white cast.

Me? I am missing the Season 1 dynamic and Alex who cared about her sis and family and who always put them first sorely. And James who cared about Kara's feelings and Winn who would have never went behind her back for some vigilante hijinks.

Note: I like Chris Wood (what I have seen of him) and most of the time I like Mon El, though not so much these past couple of episodes. This definitely is not a criticism of Chris' acting.

Good Day!
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Jondix squeeze kiwi ... and gets an orange juice ... kidding, my hug was too hard :-*
evrafter where are you ?


Over here *waves and jumps up and down*
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I would spend all of my days on set watching the show being made
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Part 1

Eric, you have raised a very interesting topic. A lot of what I have seen written thus far, I agree with. I am going to try to address it from several POVs.
General Storyline – Season 2 thus far is not as good as Season 1. There are several reasons for this IMO. The departure of Cat Grant was a significant loss and there has not been actor of her caliber to replace her. It is not the EP’s fault she did not follow, but I believe they need to find a comparable character and plot. The overall stories have not been as good, though I think Season 2.2 is showing vast improvements. Sterling Gates and his co-writer put together a fantastic story. We do need humor and cultural references. M/MM achieved that and I will admit I am looking forward to the musical. We do need some fun.
There are too many storylines going on and that dilutes the power of the show and the actors. If they stayed with the Cadmus Arc and Kara’s Journalism as promised, then they would be more concentrated. This would not leave out Lena, Mon-El, and Alex.
Now let’s look at our actors: James is a problem. He reminds me of Pirandello’s “Six Actors in search of a Play”. He has no proper role in the show and I believe that is a large part responsible for the negativity. They need to establish a sound role or get rid of the character. This is not a comment on Mehcad’s acting skills.
Lena is an excellent addition. The grayness of her character coupled with Cadmus and the fantastic villainy of Brenda strong is an asset. It fits with the Arc.
Mon-El is a great addition. The on-screen chemistry with Kara is fantastic. I enjoy it very much. They remind me of Tracey and Hepburn; Bruce Willis and Sybil Shephard. There is a lot of fun in their give and take. As for the romance, come on! Let’s give the girl a break! She deserves happiness and love beyond family.
I miss Sisters Night and the writers and EPs have committed a mortal sin in discarding it. Regardless of relationships, they can spend time together. This is a big failure and they need to return to it.
Maggie is controversial. Not because she is a Lesbian, but because whose she’s hooked up with. I take that back. A lot of people just freak out at the thought or representation of a gay relationship. I think the Eps have handled it very respectfully, but I for one was very much against Alex being the chosen one. I believe it sent the wrong message that you can be a tough woman who prefers jeans and pants, loves her weapons and not be heterosexual. I am afraid it establishes a stereotype. I noted that he Valentines’ scene with Maggi in a type of Tux and Alex in a dress sent a subliminal and perhaps unintended message: Maggie is the dominant partner in this ship. Personally, I was offended. Again, Alex has been made all wishy this year in this regard and I think it contrary to her character.

Argo
A journey of 1,000 KM, begins with one step.
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Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.
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Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.





this right here is an example that causes divisiveness. A blank statement of "he is becoming the second lead" as the OP mentioned without any backup. fact is he was barely in "Martian Chronicles" and "the Luthors". Leads dont go missing for whole episodes like that.

I know I have ranted a few times about guardian but I would never begrudge or think less of someone if they liked the Guardian.


EXACTLY.....I actually envy them...... :(
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I'm definitely following your argument here, Lindy. I have to wonder...we the audience already know something isn't "right" with Mon-el...he's been lying. So perhaps a lot of focus is being given to Mon-El because his backstory/lie is about to alter Kara in a big way...i.e...she FINALLY lets herself feel and believe that she can let her guard down, let someone in, and "have everything." Then...BAM! The truth comes out. So...I'm right there with you on wishing all these side characters weren't pulling screen time away from the OG crew. But, I see where the writers MIGHT be headed...and thus I can see why perhaps SO much time is being given to Mon-El.

I just wish all breaking off "fandoms" could remember the BIG picture. We shall see.


Does it make sense to say--after all this talk of anti-Mon El from me--that I hate the thought of Kara getting hurt? So, I'd prefer it working out, but then getting a more integrated group storyline with romance in the periphery?

I don't mind Kara having more character growth, but I don't want her to lose her faith or her optimisim or idealism. I don't want her to grow cynical. It'd be painful.
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Supergirl.tv Admin stated:

"Maybe we should show her this thread. Its been thoughtful, respectful, and hopefully healing in some way. I think the vast majority of community here are very respectful and kind. Good fans and good thoughts shared. Ultimately if we can all agree to be fans that live by the motto I shared, I think we will all be able to enjoy the show!"

*******

Sure, why not? As Patrick Stewart as Captain Picard often said on ST TNG: "Make it so." ;)
"Ain't No Easy Way" - Train, from the CD/LP/Download, AM Gold. (2022)

"Closer" - The FIXX, from the CD/LP/Download, Every Five Seconds. (2022)

"Days Ahead" and "Lidar" - Bruce Hornsby, from the CD/LP/Download, 'Flicted. (2022)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Supergirl Season 2
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Just to give an example of a little of what is happening. There was a poster that was railing about the screen time of Mon-El on Monday night. I posted in a tweet that I was enjoying both couples and that I looked at Kara and Mo-Nel's relationship as fireworks and Alex and Maggie's relationship as a warm fire. Meaning, I loved both of the relationships just in different ways. Well, the making fun of tweets started as in her first "would someone please translate this for me, blah, blah, blah." so as with the others I simply muted her. I would love to have conversations with everyone about the show, but you can't right now. :(
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Supergirl Season 2
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I would think the largest fandom civil war is either between Mon-El shippers and Lena shippers or Guardian haters and Mon-El haters. About Sanvers I think we recall I got involved in a "fight" earlier, but that was because I felt there was too much drama involving Sanvers, not because of LGBT. Either way I think that was resolved too and I'm actually pretty fine about their relationship.
  1. more than a month ago
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Hmm... I think it is time for my essay because brevity is something I don't know the meaning of. :)
Okay.

I don't follow Supergirl stuff on twitter (except for taking an occasional look at Chyler's twitter page.) So, I am not sure what's going on there. And, on tumblr, I only follow a select community; so I have not seen much hatred there either. I have heard of it a lot, some of it genuine criticism, and a lot of twitter stuff.

Note before I start: This is not an excuse for any venomous comment anywhere from anyone. There is no excuse for not being decent to other people no matter what their values while talking about a show (if it's a life/death situation or a matter of civic rights or you are being attacked, you may get a little emotional. but this is not about that.)

Disclaimer: The POVs expressed are mine own, but I have noticed a lot of criticism on tumblr, and some of it is derived from empathy. It may be just one POV among many. :)
If you're a Lena supporter, why do you hate Guardian's screen-time?


I think the comparison is between apples and beef here. Just like James in the Lena episode. All the ire directed at the Guardian arc is not about the increased screen time. It was not there much in the previous season, and James was the love interest!

It's about how sloppily the character has been written. And especially, the entitlement with which he treats the other characters. James thinks that he is owed support from Winn and Kara. He does not appreciate that Winn is risking his job and his life, and stealing from the government to ensure that he stays alive. He doesn't appreciate that Kara is only looking out for his safety.

And worse, in a show watched by a lot of people who are not superheroes but who contribute to society in a lot of different ways such as health workers, teachers, reporters and whatever, he considers the job he does as not being equal to the Supers. And since the writers seem to be on his side, it is all the more like, the show is telling people subtly that violently going at drug dealers and criminals is the only valuable and decent way you could contribute to society.

I mean, it defies logic. If I wanted to compete, I'd compete with someone from a position of my strength. Not of theirs. How can you compete with these folks in superheroics? Your strength is journalism, employ that.

And if it is not about competition as James says, but about making a difference. Again, I'd use my strength. And leave law enforcement to the law enforcement.

How's James with all his tech and Winn's support a hero and not Maggie who does whatever she does without any of that? Or Alex who only, as far as I have seen, has weapon, no additional armour or shield?

By the way, many James supporters do not see some of these aspects, or chose to ignore it because he was a rather decent character in Season 1, and because like any member of a discriminated against community, you tend to overlook deficiencies and look at strengths of a person of your own; and from where they are standing, he is willing to risk his life for others, he is loyal, and he tries to clean up crime. The entitlement issues they probably ignore as poor writing. Basically, they are looking at him with the season-1 lense, with the added good qualities of heroism.

Others may not be part of a minority community, as in a POC, but may empathise for the same reasons.

Lena's story on the other hand is written so as to appeal to anyone with any empathy. She is introduced as someone who wants to step away from the evil shadow of her step brother. Anyone who knows anything about Superman knows how tough a struggle that is with a name like Luthor.

Then, you get to know more about her, and you realise that her mother has been ill treating her since she was a baby. That possibly she lost her mother who had lover her at that same young age. How can anyone not feel for her at that?

And then, she shows a penchant for defying her mother who has been so emotionally abusive to her.

She has shown herself to be generous, at least to Kara (we don't see her anywhere else; but see Kara is a mere reporter, and she is a rich lady with a lot of assets; she is honest, but she is welcoming despite that.). And brave (she has risked her life for things that she believed in) and resourceful and intelligent (as when she took on those villains her mother sent using some device that I don't remember the name of; as well, as during the Medusa episode).

To top it all, her mother is emotionally manipulating her. Or, has been.

And then, there is the mystery about her motives. Because she is such a complex character, you want her to win this fight and emerge on the side of good.

It'd be very difficult for any viewer to not like this combo.

(All in all, I think Lena is the best character they have added to the show this season.)

Essentially I think the conflict in James' life and the arc looks very made-up and tacked on. While Lena's looks like something that can happen to anyone; natural and rich in life.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Supergirl Season 2
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I had to split my comment; it was turning out to be too long.

Put simply, if you like Maggie Sawyer and Alex Danver's relationship, why don't you like Mon-El?


Well, I am not the person to whom this question is directed at here because I don't ship either of them. (I have noticed over the years that I have a preference for the familial and platonic relationships over romance. Unlike many who think that having a romance is necessary for a fulfilling life, I think I am just fine with friends and family. I am basically asexual and most-of-the-time, though not always, aromantic.)

But, I have been hanging around in tumblr a lot, and other review sites, so I can offer some insights, I believe. :) Besides, thoughts from some of us folks who are here for the Danvers and folks from Season 1 might also help, right?

Okay.

Alex-Maggie vs. Mon El

Alex's relationship with Maggie has been almost wholly from the point of view of Alex; the character we have been invested in since season 1.

Besides, that you can kind of understand why Alex falls for Maggie. Someone who fights against crime; is open-minded; likes aliens (which is very important to Alex for obvious reasons); is brave and mostly generous.

Alex's coming out arc has been very well handled by the show. A lot of gay people saw themselves and their own experience in that. I saw myself in that.

And because we cannot ignore representation and the message the show is sending.

There has been a lot of happiness that it gave gay folks including teens. It gave validation to a lot of adults who barely see themselves in TV shows especially when it comes to cop shows, procedural and superhero shows.

All of these make them very invested in Alex-Maggie.

Compare that to Mon El.

Ignore the actor and the chemistry between Melissa and Chris for a moment.

His story line is basically this. Told, not from Kara's, our hero's, point of view, but from the point of view of Mon El.

Rich privileged guy (we don't know he is a prince, but we are pretty sure), who has grown up with not a care in the world. Shows the same attitude in the outside world when he comes across our lead character, the woman. He thinks she is selfish and attention-seeking. He doesn't see the point of all this caring for other people.

After a lot of harping from other people, including Alex, he decides that he could do something. (There was this one happening during that cage episode, Changing? when he offers help to someone; that was cool, but it was also fleeting and not touched up on.)

And then, he falls for our lead-character. Because she is pretty decent during the time when the two of them spend time in a cage. Very brave.

And in the next couple of episodes he is back not being all that caring about other people but Kara; he comes to Cat Co and accompanies Kara not because it is the right thing to do but because he wants to spend time with her. And then, he is back to being rather a jerk. Or, at least, telling Kara not to go looking for abducted strangers. Not listening when he is asked to go for backup and instead endangering her. Telling her, that she was looking for trouble when she tries to save them.

But, his crush for her continues, and he falls for her. Because she is very brave this time around too.

And, this is in canon, he says it that he likes her that is why he was with her.

And then, he pines for her by drinking club soda (that by the way is not changing for your love; or being inspired; that is wallowing. and telling his date about his crush).

And Kara is told that.

And the next episode, Kara suddenly decides that she is falling for him too. For what reason? We are not shown that at all. For what reason other than the fact that her friends with their new toys, and her sister with her new love, are ignoring her?

She make an odd speech about him keeping on proving her wrong, which is not quite the truth. He doesn't prove her wrong. She had too low an expectation from him owing to the prejudices, and with that in mind, anything half-way decent he does is considered great in her eyes. (It'd be an interesting story arc if that is what is happening here. That her eyes are blind the other way because she is compensating for her prejudices too much.)

And then, in the previous episode, he tells her that "she is full of herself" and then at the end that she is his kryptonite, and that is why he kept doing all those bad things in this episode. And then, he apologises, and she kisses him.

He keeps hurting her by saying bad things to her. And then apologising. He keeps disappointing her. He keeps saying he is trying, although, we are not shown where he is trying (except when he tries to backup Kara, and even there, he doesn't listen to her; it could be more of a cultural, I need to protect my mate who belongs to me thing and that is how he acts).

And then he ends it by saying all those bad things he did this episode was owing to his love for her. She was the reason for his weakness and his bad choices.

Have you ever heard that anywhere else before? Any of this story?

At best, it is a story that we have seen a lot before. So many times that it is basically a cliche. Rich entitled guy, meets a girl, is touched because she is so unlike what he has encountered until now, and falls for her. She reciprocates because what else could she do? He likes her, so she should reciprocate. They end up married and live happily ever after. They make a great team and fight crime together. The end.

At worst. It is a (not may be "the";) picture of an abusive relationship where one of the people involved is not all that great, keeps failing, keeps promising to do better, and then gets forgiven just because he apologises. And oh, and blames at least some, if not all, of his bad choices on the women he "allegedly" crushes on.

And think, that all of this is played unfortunately by an actor who is white, straight and male. With his richness, he is the epitome of privilege in US.

What kind of an idea does this reinforce? What kind of message does that send to any young person watching that. Or a person of any age.

Boys, as long as you promise to do better, even if you don't do well, you will get your dream girl. Boys, that girl saying no to you, doesn't really mean it. She really loves you and is just not aware of it yet. Boys, people will and should always make allowances for your background and your poor upbringing, just like the viewers of the show has been making allowances for Mon El being a Daxamite. I mean the poor guy grew up in that culture. Cut him slack.

Boys, if you are a white guy, you just have to promise to be better. Especially, if instead of being a nerd, geek, insecure kind of person (like Winn), you are the football jock.

While if you are black, like James, you will be dropped for no reason. Even if you are heroic, kind, generous and all that. (The reason that she wants to find herself would have made sense if they had stuck with it; instead, she falls for the next guy who confesses his feelings to her.). And that goes for the nerd too, may be.

Girls: A. If a guy like Mon El confesses his feelings to you, you should totally return that feeling. It'd be weird if you don't. That is what happens in every story. B. See he apologises after being a jerk, so that is all right. C. as of this episode. all the bad choices that your partner makes, that is your fault. And D. no matter how bad, you always give the guy a chance.

Oh and boys and girls, Kara was lonely because she said no to Mon El. And she deserves that fate because she rejected the guy. After he risked his heart for her. (I have seen screenshot of YouTube comments to that effect.) And she dumped James too.

People who do ship Mon El and Kara do say that he is from a different culture and so he cannot be blamed for his attitude and also that he is trying. Although, we have barely seen anything at all where he tries (except for that one second thing at the end of Changing). He does not interact at all with others. All his time is spent with Kara, so we don't even know what he is like in her absence.

So, basically, the show, and everyone who loves the ship seems to want Kara and everyone who opposes the ship to give him credit for what he hasn't done based on what he vows he would do. In show, he might end up fighting for the good. In real-life, how good a message that is I am not too sure. Most of the time, it looks like a recipe for disaster.

Not to mention, how cliched.

And did I say, all the falling for her is shown from his point of view, not hers? In her show, it is his feelings that is the POV. That matters and are given centre stage. She reacts to his. It is not her initiative.

So, Sanvers ship and Mon-El-Kara ships are very different.

(Cont'd) in the next comment. :)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Supergirl Season 2
  3. # 40
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