Should shows have political overtones

I think good stories can come from politics. Politics are just part of life. For example, one of my favorite tv shows was Deep Space Nine and some episodes were obviously going for political and historical parallels.

So when they started out this season with aliens being used as a metaphor of immigration, I didn't mind. I think they actually did less with it than they could have. (themes like, okay in an immigration group do some bad apples make everybody look bad, what do you do when people who are also criminals are coming, how much do you fit in or try to fit in, what conflict is there between people who can blend in and those who can't blend in, those are just conflicts that real people have, so why wouldn't it be interesting to have stories about it? same thing with Deep Space Nine and stories about a small country with an unique religion trying to preserve independence while being surrounded by hostile powers, how do you deal with your former oppressors after a violent occupation, how do you deal with former collaborators)

To me those political or historical metaphor storylines are preferable to stories or scenes that directly comment real life politics, simply because they age better. For example, I think Supergirl having to deal with hostile media, with like their version of Fox News or Bill O'Reilly would be an interesting conflict, as long as they set up their own version for it, rather than expecting everybody to get the reference.

I think She Persisted is a good name and if it's gonna reference things that happen in the episode then I don't think that it will age well. If you look at this 5 or 10 years from now you will just think "cool title" without realizing what it references. While something like the make daxam great again joke might sound out of place without the immediate context.

What does speaking out have to do with a tv show? People should speak out, they should get involved in real life politics. By voting, by going to rallies, by becoming politicians themselves in the real and now.

I'm kinda sick of people who act like they are being political when the only thing they do is watch a political tv show.When people spend more time fighting about the characters on a tv show rather than going out and fight the real fight, that always seems embarrassing to me.

TV shows are ersatz activity. You have this people who start like petitions and twitter hashtags on tv shows then they could use the same energy to promote a ballot issue or regional election. But people don't do that, because that's not cool and easy. Real life politics are messy, that's why people run to tv shows and rather argue over fake issues.

And there is nothing wrong with preferring fake issues over real issues as long as people are honest about that being what they are doing. And don't pretend that by fighting these fake issues, they have done their job, that that is more important than caring about real issues. No, people prefer fake issues, because they are clear and easy with clear badguys and you don't have to interact with real people who might have a different opinion for concrete real life reasons. If somebody is genuinely concerned about them coming for you, they should be out there protesting and being an active voter.

People like to construct tv shows at this fake fight, but they don't want to get involved in real, messy politics. Because real life is hard. Arguing about which fictional characters make out on tv hasn't stopped a guy who many people don't like from being elected. This is the real fight people could be fighting. People pat themselves on the back and act like liking a facebook post or tweeting a progressive thing makes them political. It doesn't. Going out and getting elected, or handing out pamphlets and voting and helping people run campaigns, that is what makes you political. People like to live in this fantasy world of perfect, good characters where if you just whine enough to the god of the fictional universe you get what you want. And that is more fun than living in the real world where real people get harmed and have real problems and creating a hashtag campaign for god doesn't actually make the world better. Real life is hard and messy and not as glossy and fun. Pretending that watching a progressive tv show and rooting for progressive couple is some great feat of resistance while around you people vote for bullshit ballot issues that you don't want to think about because real life politics makes ones brain hurt is just self deluding.

I like tv shows and movies and comics. But I'm fully aware that any time and money I'm spending on them is time and money I'm not spending supporting my local politicians and reforming the party I would like to vote for. Fighting over political ground in fake battle fields like tv shows or message boards is just bullshit. People making themselves feel important and like they are being righteous, while real life harm happens under their noses while they are busy complaining about who gets how much screentime.

Don't get me wrong, I like debating fake issues like Star Trek politics or culpability of characters under mind control or without a soul or from an alien planet. But at least I know it's bullshit and shallow entertainment, no better or worse than let's say bowling. And I'm afraid that there are many people who genuinely think that what they are doing is genuine meaningful political activism. It isn't. It's shallow bullshit and running away from the real world because real life has complicated issues and fewer hot righteous people.

As for the writers, from their POV, I think they have to ask themselves, what is this supposed to be? Entertainment? Art? Propaganda?

Please friend, calm a little.

By the way, just because some talk about a TV show right now, does not mean they don't do anything in reality. And no one is fighting a political battle on the forum of this site. I just asked whether this show should be so political. I've stated where I stand on politics to give a clearer view of my take on this particular question, and some others have done the same, but no one has actually argued politics here. I'd know, because normally I get swarmed as soon as I say I'm socialist, if this was political debate.

And you might have misread what brierrose said.

Yes, sorry, I didn't mean it that way. I just get riled up sometimes when people bring in nazi imagery to talk about things like a tv show, implying, this is so serious, we all should take action and then it turns out the action they mean is ... about a tv show? But I see you mean it about the writers, not us fans. Even if there might be an underlying thread of "if the nazis are basically next door, how can you object to the writers using the tv show to state their opinions".

I do think that even writers should rethink whether using their tv shows to "speak out" is the best way. TV shows are such an arbitrary thing, they air in a lot of countries, they air in reruns. So if you say something too topical and concrete in them, you should consider whether the same thing will still make sense if you watch them years later.

There has been good political art, but I think particularly tv shows and how they are made usually aren't the best example.

A different subject to me are shows that are intentionally about political topics. Whether straight up (like The West Wing) or sort of under the covers (like The Wire). I think as a whole tv shows are better when they create their own self containing universe. They can still be about things like overcoming oppression or fighting prejudice.

I think interesting debates can be had about whether it is cowardly to use metaphor (they are oppressed because they have superpowers rather than they are being oppressed because they are gay). But I think most tv shows take shortcuts. Usually out of necessity, because it's not easy to make a tv show, you can't cram in everything. If you make a movie about real issues or real people, then realism has a different priority. I also think that tv shows are usually better if they have fleshed out villains and more complex scenarios (of course, it depends on the type of the tv show).

I think artistically it would be pretty boring if all tv shows decided to go for the same path of either doing real life politics or nobody doing real life politics. But I think tv shows also have to think what is right for their show, for example based on the level of realism in the show, whether you should go for current events, real life issues, abstracted issues.

For the record, I think what shows like Smallville or Flash or some comics have been doing, by recasting some characters as other ethnicities is a very interesting artistic experiment. I don't necessarily always see that as pushing an agenda, but asking us as consumers what we really care about. Everybody likes the cute "in love since they were children"/"highschool sweethearts" story, would you still like it if the girl was black or half asian? Does her race matter or do the emotions matter or what she means to the hero? What makes a hero? Is it his power, like for example in Green Lantern? Then why does his race matter? Is it his story, his character, the underdog who gets picked on and finds out he has superpowers, the rich, successful dick who grows a conscience, would you still relate to that story if the guy was hispanic? Why, why not?

TV shows are pretty formulaic. They have certain stock character. "The love interest". "The nerd". "The best friend". I can see artistic merit in playing around with the ethnicities or the genders of these archetypes. Even if it was just that it gets boring if its the same all the time.

Okay... So, I am left-leaning and I am pretty sure most of my values would be left of US Democratic Party.

And, I also think it is quite okay and natural for a people who create TV shows (or any art form) to bring their own values to the shows. (Why are values considered political, anyways? They are more than that).

However, I don't think this show has done a good job of it.

I don't mean making Alex gay or having a black Love Interest for the lead (Kara in S1 or Flash throughout?); because I don't consider these political statements. They are just a reflection of society; you have gay folks in the world; you have black folks. And both gay relationships and inter-cultural or inter-racial love can happen (it does, doesn't it? I am not really sure since shows show so little of that, but I am thinking it'd only be natural to have it).

The rather weird mention of climate change (that ended up portraying the climate scientist as the villain whatever the politics of showrunners and writers are), Nasty Woman, Make Daxam Great Again (I missed Rhea saying that) etc. however feel either like cheap shortcuts that the writers to use to act out their emotions (valid, I think; I have them too, but cheap because shortcuts) while cashing out on the political fame these have instead of actually exploring the real issues.

This show is telecast in many countries. How many people would understand or relate to that line about Nasty Women? What are you achieving with it? Nothing other than make a few people feel good and validated at the cost of making a few other people feel mad.

Instead, if you were to subtly explore the idea of different expectations that you have from people who are of different genders or even different backgrounds; if you were just to play with expectations in general and how to break them, and how Kara deals with it, I think that would have been a much better story and would have much larger reach; through the ages, through the sexes and through geographies. (They tried the gender thing in Season 1, but again, I thought it was very sledge hammer). And showing women in powerful positions, winning, would be a breaking gender stereotypes in itself.

Similarly, the story of someone from a different culture trying to fit in, the classic immigration story of how you feel part of both worlds at times, and feel as if you belong nowhere at others, that feeling of torn between two worlds, if only they had explored that evenly (they do sometimes remember this, but not consistently), then again, they would have had a winner.

And a story of extinction of species or clogging up of reservoirs where Supergirl helps out would have done more to shine a light on environment than what the show did with it. I think Season 1 in fact did a better job of that with the whole Astra and blowing up of Krypton due to indiscriminate exploitation of natural resources.

I don't think stories or TV are shallow. Or at least, they can be more than shallow. They can make real changes; affect people in real and positive ways (or at times, negative ways too unfortunately). Make some folks feel better about themselves, which in itself is a big deal. You just have to look at how gay women and teens have reacted to the Sanvers* storyline to see this. (What is that quote? Something along the lines of "Not seeing a reflection makes you feel like monsters."

And stories can be an exploration of difficult topics while still being entertaining.

After all, it is stories that we have heard since we were children that affect how we view the world.

However, I do think Supergirl bungled in how they explored their values. They took shortcuts just as they have been doing with a lot of other stuff and character arcs. The shows don't look like propaganda to me or even pushing political viewpoints; but rather as ways in which the writers used current climate in US to include one liners for either inside jokes or applause (I am not sure which). I don't think they were wrong (it's after all their show). I do think they were immature and consistently underestimate their audience. Or, so it seems to me.

*(I know, I don't much like that storyline or Kara's romance. But most of that is for personal and selfish reasons. I prefer platonic and familial relationships over romance and I love Kara and Alex and feel they have been ignored this season; along with Kara's friendship with Winn and James. However, I do know that it has had a positive impact on a lot of folks and I am grateful for that).

the original Twilight Zone was hugely colonized with politics, by design, Rod Serling decided it was easier to do "difficult material" thru the medium of witches, martians and time travel. The original Star Trek had a definite political profile and in more recent times "Babylon Five"....even "Xena the Warrior Princess" had something of an agenda. I would argue that the more successful sci-fi fantasy shows in the USA tend to have a sort of agenda going on....

JF