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  4. Tuesday, 02 May 2017
When not concerning fiction and entertainment, I consider myself a fairly political person, somewhat involved in socialist activism, and a firm supporter of all things progressive. Lately as of this season, Supergirl has become increasingly blatantly politcal, even with the finale being called "She Persisted", and I do agree with much of its message, but that does raise the debate whether a show being overtly political hurts its entertainment value, as I have not seen another show act the same way.

I live in Australia now but half of my life I lived in China. I am not as critical of the Government of China as most in the west would think, I don't think they are as bad as western media make them out to be, but they certainly had faults. One of which is a tight control and influence over all entertainment produced locally. I'm obviously not saying US regulation is anything similar, but in China the result of such intervention ensured every show had a political or moral message. While in China I remembered hating to watch local TV, and always sought out foreign movies and shows. Reason being, with everything feeling like they're out to teach you a lesson, it was just not entertaining. Most of the time the message wasn't even anything bad, but that didn't matter.

That being said I'm also aware entertainment media is a method in which the creators are entitled to express their views, sometimes for good. I just don't want shows to be turned into US Democratic Party (or other party) advertisements.

Thoughts?
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Well... The second a few of us brought up just how divisive the show has gotten politically, we got shot down and deleted, a few weeks back. Respectfully done, of course, because our admins are da bomb. Those who follow the same line of political thinking as the writers and show runners, seem to take no issue with the divisivness....stating "but OTHER shows" past/present have political messages. Not at THESE levels, they don't. It's so blatant, in fact, as I've stated before, I know handfuls of once huge fans leave...and no.... not because of the gay storyline. Although, I have a student who is a refugee from Afghanistan that I had used him watching Supergirl as a way for me to help him learn English. He no longer watches. Once a HUGE fan who loved coming in, even during lunch, to talk about it with me. He loved Alex and Kara...was literally giddy over the special affects. But uh yeah... He totally "no likes it anymore."

There's so many people out there in the world trying to cause divisiness. Some of us just want to come to a show where we don't have to worry about that stuff. Most people simply just want to be entertained...no matter what your political affiliation is. We don't want to have to worry about whether or not we are on the "right side" of what the writers and show runners believe.

There is a real difference between "tackling" the issues of the day and using your platform to showcase only your specific doctrine.

That's my two cents. I don't care how my fellow Supergirl fans "label" themselves. I just want a show we can all can come together on.
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To answer the question posed; yes.

The thing everyone has to keep in mind is that despite the show's very progressive overtones, it is striking (very hard) a balance for people who have traditionally been under-represented (i.e. women, minorities and orientation communities). The fact that it appears to gravitate to the left is more in line with social patterns and lines of thought. It also helps if the EPs and writers, by and large, are from said communities and set the tone and direction for the series.

Admittedly and rightfully so, some may not agree with the tone and direction the show is taking, but the efforts to address social discrepancies should be applauded. Otherwise, TV and movies would never change and we'd be all be perpetually watching Westerns, repetitive sit-coms, hyper-masculine action-adventures, mindless game shows or state/national, media-driven propaganda. Which, by the way (other than for currently out-of-favour Westerns), is the actual state of things.

The real reason the show is sticking out like a sore thumb socially/politically, so to speak, is due to the currently toxic nature of discourse or lack thereof of constructive discussion in the United States between the fringes (far right and far left). The 95% of non-political "silent majority" viewers haven't stood up and basically told both extreme sides to have a seat and behave. So, until that happens, the 5% will continue to dictate the uncivil, fact-free, disingenuous, and possibly dangerous direction of discourse.

Truth be told, far too often there are shows that are written by men, for men, and centre on overly-masculine subject matter. Shows that tend to go against the current (swim upstream instead of down), tend to meet a lot of resistance but are the ones that tend to be remembered for challenging the status-quo long after their TV airing days are done. Cases in point: Wonder Woman, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica (the more recent re-imagined version), Mary Tyler Moore, Xena, Buffy, Murphy Brown, Ally McBeal and a handful of others were deemed very progressive in their day, and whether by accident or design, were interpreted in a political manner. Nowadays, there is a stark chasm between both sides and this tends to expose the left/right divide acutely.

So, before anyone feels the need to pillory or horse-whip the EPs and writers for their personal or overtly stated political views, just remember, change doesn't happen in a vacuum. If you dislike the direction a show or social theme therein is taking, write to the PTB. As Andrew Kreisberg stated in one of his interviews, they (the EPs), don't go out of their way to be political and attempt to sway viewers one way or another, but it unfortunately appears that way because of the external state of things in the world. Many people apparently fly off the handle because they don't like what they see or hear or having direct challenges to their belief systems. We see this in religion, politics and everyday social interactions.

Also, please keep in mind, the reason that people are being put down for holding strong contrary views is because many of the debates that occur tend to degrade into mud-slinging matches. The Internet is littered with such flotsam and jetsam. This site, by contrast, for good or bad (depending on your p.o.v.), is more-or-less and exception. In a small way, it is an oasis in a sea of Internet insanity.

To be sure, we've had our share of bickering and entrenched ideas on these boards in the past and while everyone is entitled to their own views, there has to be a modicum of decorum when presenting a point of view. It is not the fact that a person holds a different point of view, it is how it is presented to the public. Disagreements are fine. In fact, they are encouraged, but the moment they become gang-ups or put-downs (us vs. them) is when the debate gets out of hand. This is why these debates sometime seem a tad stifling or off-putting or that one viewpoint appears to hold more sway than another.

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"Underneath The Stars" - The Cure, from the CD/LP/Download 4:13 Dream. (2008)
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I have started and stopped writing to this thread a few times. I finally decided to keep it simple with a favorite quote by Pastor Martin Niemollor.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me-and there was no one left to speak for me.


If we don't speak up when others are being harmed who will be left to speak for us.:(
Edit I am active go to rally's attend local and state government meetings. I meant if the writers feel they should speak out.
Hope, Help and Compassion for all
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Regarding Supergirl specifically my current view is unsure. Hoping to hear what you guys think
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I get you. I think feminism and LGBT rights among others are all vital and righteous issues, but sometimes it seems the show isn't simply standing for these ideas, but instead is clearly partisan, as in quite literally rechanneling Dem Party election campaign slogans. I don't believe that is the right way to get messages across, and certainly alienates many who are indifferent to US bipartisan politics.
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Shows being political isn't new. The problem is Greg Berlanti's heavy-handedness. It can be off-putting, even to those who agree with the message, and a complete turn-off to those who might not.
The original Star Trek series dealt with plenty of topical issues, and you can tell how the people making the show felt about those issues, but (except for a single interracial kiss), there weren't tons of people hating on the show for its politics. Those Trek episodes still stand up to repeated viewings 50 years later, but I doubt the same will be true of Supergirl in the 2060's.
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There has been some controversy in the comics industry over diversity as opposed to diversity for the sake of diversity. That other comic line supposedly lost significant market share as a result. I cannot offhand name a character here who is in a traditional marriage with a spouse who has not disappeared. The heroine, of course is not supposed to be in one. Perhaps a few characters will be replaced by others as time goes on.
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I think the difference with when Star Trek aired, people were...kinder. Know what I mean? "Phobes" and "ists" weren't being hurled at ya left and right. If you have a different opinion on how to handle immigration, suddenly you're a xenaphobe. If you support the police, it's because you're racist... Etc etc etc. Cival discourse between the radicals on BOTH sides of issues is horrid.

Yet, I've said it before and will say it again... While the 5% (2.5% radical left 2.5% radical right) fight it out...the 95% of us in the middle all get along, care for and watch out for each other. Sadly, many times, comments/inuindos on the a show really lean to one of those 2.5%.

Funny enough, The Walking Dead does it right. Everyone is just surviving together. No overtly political messages. For example: Two gay couples...so what. It's there. Its normal life. Correction... One couple. One lesbian was killed. But, EVERYone dies... so no bury your gay outrage. ;-)

Even better...Modern Family. They know how to make fun of EVERY political belief, lifestyle, etc etc. They know how to let us just laugh at ourselves. No political leaning. Just... Balance.

However... I... dO... Still.. Love... This... Show. I simply wish they would tone it down politically for the "atmosphere" we are currently in. Zendar, I think you nailed it... I wish it wasn't so heavy handed.
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Thank you, Romulus, for your answer to this question. As a left-leaning centrist from the USA, I agree with everything you've said. I was ready this morning to add a response of my own, but you beat me to it and it's a good thing because you said it so much better and with more restraint than I could have mustered. Well done!
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Well written, Romulus. And much of what you said I can agree with.

"The fact that it appears to gravitate to the left is more in line with social patterns and lines of thought.." That right there is the issue. Perhaps that's how it is in New York, California, Oregon ...more liberal leaning areas. But, that's not how it is everywhere. What the show is doing wrong, isn't that it shines a light on issues. It shows one side as good, the other side as almost "evil." Example: Evil Rhea saying, "Help make Daxim 'great again.'" Or Snapper's lesson on good journalism, stating a bad journalist is one step away to putting a "fascist" into the oval office. Thus, they are not simply shining a light on current discourse. They are taking stabs at conservatives from a very left leaning stance....not caring that half of their viewers/supporters/die hard fan base are conservative.

All of the shows you mentioned--Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, Buffy--huge fan of all of them. As a viewer, never felt attacked, judged. I would thus say, there was something they did right, that perhaps Supergirl is struggling with.

"As Andrew Kreisberg stated in one of his interviews, they (the EPs), don't go out of their way to be political and attempt to sway viewers one way or another, but it unfortunately appears that way because of the external state of things in the world." Here's the only problem with that statement, which by the way, I wish was absolutely true. I stated this on the "news page," and that's when the admin had to put a halt to the convo (because a few were getting overly heated lol)....when you read the tweets from some of the actors, writers, and even some of the directors....the dialogue in the show sounds just like their tweets--divisive (minus the foul language lol). Thus why I've said before, the show is simply becoming their mouthpiece to rant on a larger scale.

The episode they got it right? When President Marsden brought up the issue of amnesty. I felt the EP's did a good job presenting both "sides" of the issues fairly. They showed that, yes we are a nation of immigrants. But, that perhaps there ARE issues to take a closer look at, rather than simply labeling someone a xenophobe. Kara even used that term in the episode. But rather than allowing Kara's comment to go unchallenged, they brought in an equally strong argument from the conservative side.

Here's my hope....perhaps by the time Season 3 rolls around, further away from the election and with perhaps the nation coming back together, the show will be able to reflect more of that unity. Never stop shining a light on things we need to address; but, perhaps done in a way that's not so overt or leaning.
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All, I appreciate your comments. I am a hardline centrist who can be liberal on some issues and conservative on others. The problem we all face today is a tendency to cloister our selves around like minded people. I want to be able to discus issues with different people, so that I may learn, understand, and respect those opinions.
You all raised the points of past programs addressing social issues of the day. While I can see Supergirl doing that, I am not always comfortable. I was not keen on turning Alex into a lesbian. It is not that I am anti-gay, rather it reinforced a stereotype: biker chick, short hair cut, jean, boots, etc. I have become more accepting of this, as time has passed because it has been handled respectfully and is not appearing to be an overriding subplot.

As mentioned, the internet abounds with many arguments and using words such as racists, abusive, Fascist. These are powerful words and are too often thrown about casually. Misusuing them diminishes their power and impact.

My family was exiled and killed by Fascists. What Snapper said was accurate. Mussolini was a journalist and Hitler used the Beobachter as his mouthpiece. I have lived in dictatorships and theocracies. We have people of that bent here in this country, as well as in any other nation. Again what we need to dos to communicate with each other. Understanding a position does not mean I will agree with it.

Some people are upset by the final episode's title: "Nevertheless she persisted." I believe it appropriate within the context of what will occur. Mitch McConnell may have used it to quiet Elizabeth Warren, but it is IMO as phrase belonging to all women. When Anne Coulter was denied speaking at UC Berkley, Nevertheless she persisted. It is not the property of one group, but of many.

So here is my epistle. Let's continue to communicate with each other. We will only enrich ourselves by doing so.

Argo
A journey of 1,000 KM, begins with one step.
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Just wanted to thank you guys for this thread. I am not going to weigh in on the topic but I wanted to point to how civil and well written everyone's comments are. No arguing here just thoughtful exploration of a very tough topic. I really appreciate all of your grace in discussing the issue.
You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun, Kal. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders.
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"What Snapper said was accurate. Mussolini was a journalist and Hitler used the Beobachter as his mouthpiece." Legit argument, there Argo. And if that is truly what the EP's meant, I'm totally down. It sparked my concern because it was the next episode, or shortly thereafter the Rhea comment "Make Daxim great again," and because, as you pointed out "fascist" has been thrown around quite a bit these days. But, I will most definitely side with your argument. You've been there. Done that. I can't even begin to imagine the things you have seen.

And thank you, Admin, again for all of your time and energy.

Romulus and Fedguy, thank you for your insights. I'm always looking to improve, and part of that is "hearing out" the "other side."
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Admittedly being a socialist I have a small amount of objections to the interpretation of progressive politics by liberals as often expressed in media, but then again I do agree with 90% of the sentiment SG expressed, just that it really isn't subtle at all, and as someone said, doing it like TWD by presenting an egalitarian scenario without declaring it seems to be more effective.

But yeah, thanks all for the input and I really still am not sure what to exactly think on this, as many here on either side raised good points.

Oh and Argo, can't begin in imagine your loss. I've certain family who's been exiled during the Japanese invasion and killed during the Cultural Revolution, but I've never known them. Any how, very sorry for what happened to you. Fingers crossed history won't repeat.
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Well, I did post my thoughts then had a second to read everyone else's thoughts....I think I'll just delete and back out slowly. :)
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Fedguy and evrafter - I appreciate your thoughts. The theocracy I lived in was in the Middle-East, the Dictatorship was in Asia. I must admit that i never caught the "make Daxim great again", reference. Nonetheless our discussing here and being of different opinions is a very positive experience. I hope we can continue to be open and respectful as here. BTW, my Great Uncle founded the Anarchist Party in Italy and died fighting the Fascists. They observed the 75th anniversary of his death last year. I was born later, but grew up hearing very pointedly how they and the Germans killed people.

I think the point is whether you agree or disagree, we all enjoy the right of Free Speech. Perhaps the EPs are pushing their views or perhaps are taking advantage of current events to draw in smart rejoinders such as "fake news." I do not pretend to know their thoughts. The important fact is that I still enjoy the show, and yes there are plots, writing, etc. that i do not like. But I am a fan, and I do not think there are any fans that are completely satisfied with their favorite bands, shows, etc.

Thank you all for your wonderful thoughts. It is a learning experience.

Argo
A journey of 1,000 KM, begins with one step.
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I just don't want shows to be turned into US Democratic Party (or other party) advertisements.


Fed, the first part would apply to about 97% of the shows on TV these days promoting some form of a New World Order globalist anti-freedom propaganda and these shows I avoid like Quantico, Designated Survivor, Homeland and Madam Secretary to name a few.

One of the shows that sort of breaks that rule is Tim Allen's Last Man Standing, a big Friday night comedy hit for ABC. The show goes after the left/Democrats and yet I do not hear about many people complaining, unless they are trained to do so by their spiteful professors in college and troll message boards.

Don't watch much TV except for the CW comic shows and any sports that might be on (baseball for this time of year...Yankees for me). And ESPN has gotten political...and aside from the way TV is obtained, it has cost them viewers, millions of dollars and even 100 people had to be laid off.

I grew up in a time without so many cable channels and all the streaming options and things were a little less politically charged. When I speak of comedy I speak of people like Bob Hope and Johnny Carson, two of my idols who went after both parties regardless of who was in the White House and it was done tongue in cheek. When I listen to Bob Hope's radio program on CD I hear those political references and think not much of it because it's part of the nation's history and pop culture. And they weren't meant to force the issue. It was done...FOR LAUGHS.

On LGBT, lots of people 40 years ago were up in arms when Billy Crystal played Jody on Soap, TV's first gay character. Also at the time Three's Company came on where John Ritter (RIP) played Jack Tripper, a man who had to lie about being homosexual so he can stay in the apartment. Both shows I don't think forced the issue. Again, they played for laughs. Then along came Ellen DeGeneres and her coming out which to me changed the game.

Now as an Independent, libertarian, conservative, I do not care if someone is gay. But if you try to force the issue, there's going to be trouble.

We are who we are and we live our lives as we see fit; not to let others in on it.

On Supergirl, the political things were one of the reasons I think this season has been a disappointment for me. Also the focus on relationships outside of Kara and Alex has been detrimental. After the first two episodes, the show began to slip into an abyss. Though shows like Mr and Mrs Mxy, Supergirl Lives, Alex and the first two eps this season focused on adventure and fun and worked for me. Welcome to Earth was far too politically charged regarding immigration. Then I thought, who would believe Supergirl who is from a dead planet would try to harm earth?

To me the showrunners are part of Hollywood's temper tantrum over last Nov. And as far as I go it is petty, childish and must stop. They are whether they know it or not feeding some of the anti-American garbage from groups paid by elites. Memo to Hollywood, watching CNN or reading the NY Times DOES NOT turn you into an expert on everything overnight.

For next season, turn down the politics (not to zero, but a touch here and there) and the soap opera romance, refocus on Alex and Kara as career women. I get too much politics as it is from the corporate news media. Heck I don't even watch that much Fox News Channel either!
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Robert Anthony, thank you for raising some interesting points. Unfortunately, I remember many of those shows referenced and I saw them when they were first broadcast. (I want to think I am still 25.) You are correct about them. The big argument you and I can have is about those Yankees. I say go Mets!!!! Perhaps we can have a rational discussion about those teams.

Thank you,

Argo
A journey of 1,000 KM, begins with one step.
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Argo, RobertAnthony?? CURSE YOU....Course you BOTH! I've now got this stuck in my head. For the record, I was age 5 when it came out. But I remember it well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX0cSaaLcXo
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It's possible (likely?) I'm just blind to it, but what about this show exactly do people find "political"? Sure, season 1 was heavy on the feminism, season 2 was/is heavy on Sanvers, and there were some not-so-subtle jabs at Trump in Welcome to Earth, but what else?
Imra: "What about Tommy and Gina? 'You live for the fight when it's all that you've got!'"

Mon El: "Bon Jovi."

Imra: "Or was that all a lie?"

Mon El: "No. He speaks the truth."
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