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  1. Romulus
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  3. Supergirl Season 5
  4. Monday, 14 October 2019
Hi,

I just found these articles for the board's prerusal. Take it with a big grain of salt and use a critical eye when reading it. Admittedly, we're very early in the game and things can change with L+7 and on-demand / streaming numbers adjustments as the shows progress.

In truth, they might simply be bait pieces (you decide), but I suspect there is some growing concern at the WB / CW regading a continued numbers drop. Admittedly and truthfully, alienating a portion of the fanbase on a consistent basis is certainly a way to lose viewership.

Nonetheless, read the articles, cast a critical eye to it and post your rational comments below if you wish.
References
  1. https://cosmicbook.news/batwoman-supergirl-ratings-tank-second-episode?fbclid=IwAR2DsrFlsveaTFuLTUJGPODN7EhaaOuVNQi-vIPHwZZDWxPRxF7EpLTMTrg
  2. https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/tv-ratings-sunday-oct-20-2019/
  3. https://tvline.com/2019/10/21/supergirl-ratings-season-5-episode-3/
"Liberation" and "Arm In Arm" - Arkells, from the CD/LP/Download Blink Once. (2021)

"Bitter Taste" - Billy Idol, from the CD/LP/Download The Roadside EP. (2021)

"Run" - OneRepublic, from the CD/LP/Download Human. (2021)
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I'm going to weigh in here. Recently, with the rather large expansion of the sites and shows that Kelsey and I cover, I have been exploring a much larger community of entertainment reporting. I'm getting to know the players, the leakers, the well informed, and the click-baiters.

I have gained a LOT of new sources and contacts and can surprisingly say that I feel like I am a bit more of an informed reporter these days. For those interested on my takes on the larger DC landscape follow me personally on Twitter @EricJohnstonDC. I've seen episodes of Titans that aren't out yet, I've been able to keep pulse on the entire Arrowverse with some powerful press credentials and I've made some industry sources in various locations.

From what I've seen, Cosmic-Book.news is not reliable in the least. They will make up as many stores as they can, if even one sticks, they claim they were in the know all along. I put no value in their reporting and I would encourage all of us to not feel the need to link them at all here. There are other sites that fall into this category but I'm not looking to call people out, I mention them because they have been listed in this thread.

Additionally, let us look at the field as a whole. The CW used to get 0$ on Sunday nights from their new programming because it didn't exist. They relied on syndicated shows that didn't bring in nearly the same revenue Batwoman and Supergirl do. Additionally, Batwoman and the other Arrowverse shows (once the Netflix deal is up) will move to HBO Max exclusively for streaming purposes after the show's broadcast completion. This model is meant to drive up HBO max subscribers and with Warner Brother's owning it all, The CW sits quite happily taking a cut.

Finally, the Arrowverse, even while it is changing, is arguably the best Comic-Based shows on TV. There is not a subscription required to view, and with the changing market on TV, Live +7 means more than Live at all. The resale value of the Arrowverse is much more potent than any traditional ratings system.

Frankly, as long as Grant, Melissa and Ruby wish to stay in their roles, the shows will continue to be made. Syndication, streaming services, resale, collector editions and so on make these properties a gold mine. Not to mention the action figures, statues, pop figures and all other merchandise coming from the Arrowverse.

The DCEU is a mess and is now starting to find more success in these one offs like Joker than it did in the Marvel model. For incredible joined and linked stories, look no further than the Arrowverse. Also for those saying Supergirl needs to end so they can make their DCEU Movie, Why wasn't Smallville axed when Brandon Routh's Superman returns was made.

Ok I'll get off my soap box.



Thank you for some actual knowledge of the subject matter, in this discussion. EVEN the Grim Reaper has talked about how the CWs ratings schematics are far different than the other big 4. IMO Fox could learn some lessons from the CW. As far as Cosmic Comic, a massive clickbait site and should not be used in any intelligent discussion.
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The L+7 ratings do not indicate people are simply watching it later, it could be the same people that watched it live watching again for all you know. How do the numbers compare from previous seasons.

FACT: Every single episode that Supergirl wore the skirt had over 1 million live viewers
FACT: Every single episode that Supergirl no longer wears the skirt had had less then 1 million live viewers. And those numbers are falling. Maybe some people just never removed the series from the record list.

The new costume is ugly. You can find a number of comicbook fan sites that hate it, but of course we all have to be sexist, because there is no other reason than we just prefer the classic look.

As much money as the network has, you would think it could invest in heaters that could help her situation so she didn't have to freeze while filming.


You're choosing two facts that fit YOUR argument, and ignoring the other facts. As I already mentioned, every other show on the network has had comparable declines in live+same day viewership, to the point that Supergirl's rank among the CW shows sits around where it's consistently been.

Moreover, your using this thread to revive the issue of the new suit. Again. It's not needed, and it's a discussion that's been beaten to death.

Your points would be valid, if it was the only show on CW facing these sort of declines. But as I've now iterated, at least twice, it's not. Literally every show has faced a similar decline.

Here is the breakdown of the Live+7 ratings, as pulled from the link Rschick supplied:

Ratings in the 18-49 demographic:

The Flash: .94
Batwoman: .59
Riverdale: .58
Supergirl: .54
Supernatural: .53
Arrow: .51
Legacies: .50
Charmed: .43
All American: .43
Nancy Drew: .37
Black Lightning:.35
Dynasty: .20

Ratings in viewership:

The Flash: 2.453
Batwoman: 2.135
Supernatural: 1.936
Supergirl: 1.784
Riverdale: 1.528
Legacies: 1.473
Nancy Drew: 1.448
Arrow: 1.421
Charmed: 1.319
All American: 1.195
Black Lightning:0.967
Dynasty: 0.630



Supergirl is ranked 4th in both.
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@Romulus, I think that the issues with Justice League go way deeper than different interpretations of some same characters.

From what I've been hearing about DC Comics and their own internal relationships, there is a major growth effort get more teams talking and more characters shared. Think of Crisis, we will literally be seeing multiple version of Superman and I think the audience is excited for it, not confused by it.

Fun anecdote told to press only at NYCC (which Kelsey and I have a representative at, ha, we're growing), Warner Brothers TV was developing a Joker origin story show and didn't know DC Entertainment was developing a Joker origin story movie. This really started the new push for internal communication and a renewed want to share characters and allow new interpretations. Harley Quinn's animated show will really push boundaries in a new way.
You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun, Kal. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders.
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Good thing overnights don't matter.

Batwoman seems to have stabilized for the moment, but Supergirl dropped again.

I'm wondering if there is less shared audience between the two than was presumed. They are very different in tone.

Side note: If CW releases streaming data for its app, I remain unaware of it. That would provide a more complete picture.
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More evidence the sky is not falling: https://batwoman.tv/batwoman-receives-full-season-order
You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun, Kal. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders.
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More evidence the sky is not falling: https://batwoman.tv/batwoman-receives-full-season-order


I guess that's what meant by a strong lead-in...well CW wise.
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For more good news, tvbythenumbers' very own ursine prognosticator, the Cancel Bear, gives Supergirl (as well as the entire slate of programming aired thus far) 4 bears-- "likely to be renewed by May 2020."

This is not counting Arrow and Supernatural, both airing final seasons.

https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/renewcancel/cancel-bear-vs-the-cw-week-4-2019-20/
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I know most on this site don't want to hear it, but it is a fact. The ratings on this show have dropped ever since she ditched the skirt. Episode 1 of this season was the best of the season, and the only episode this season that had over 1 million viewers. It was also the only episode when she appeared in the classic costume with the skirt. Every episode prior to Season 5 Episode 2 (the first episode when the skirt was gone) had over 1 million viewers. Every episode from Season 5 Episode 2 forward has had less than 1 million viewers. The most recent episode (5.5) had the worst numbers ever, less than 800,000 viewers. Its not just cosmicbook site reporting this....

https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/supergirl-season-five-ratings/

Believe what you want, but the costume change has hurt the show's viewership.


Have you looked at the other shows on the network? Every single show has had a drop in same-day viewership. Every single series has been experiencing all time lows for same-day viewership. In terms of where it ranks among other CW shows, Supergirl is exactly where it was, last year, hovering between 4th-6th place. 6th for demographic ratings, 4th for pure numbers in viewership.

https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/cw-2019-20-season-ratings/

Is this my favorite season? No. I personally think Supergirl is the weakest of the Arrowverse shows, this year. Batwoman has been solid, and both Flash and Arrow have REALLY stepped up, with their build up to Crisis. Arrow, in particular, has been stellar, and I haven't been able to say that for YEARS.

Even so, the only competition Supergirl has is it's ranking among other CW shows. and it's right around where it consistently has been. That's honestly shocking, considering it's competing with new episodes of The Walking Dead in it's timeslot.

Add on top of that, CW doesn't really base their decisions based on Live+Same Day viewership. Every year, they rely more on streaming views as a gauge.

We get it. People miss the skirt. I do too. But they film in Vancouver. They are not warm in the fall and winter months. For the comfort and health of both Melissa and her stunt doubles, I don't see the skirt returning, any time soon. It's something we just have to accept.
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Supergirl leads all shows in live + 7 lifts across all networks.

link here
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Supergirl leads all shows in live + 7 lifts across all networks.

link here




Sooooo I guess that means those no watching live because of that dreadful suit that has ruined the show for good, are simply watching later?????? *insert sarcasm* throughout.
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More info on the Crossov ere r ratings...
Attachments (1)
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It's too early in the game. Some of the shows haven't even premiered, yet. That, and live+same day numbers have minimal impact at CW. They consider online and streaming viewership far more than other networks. On top of that, have to admit that Supergirl is in a very tough night and timeslot.

A recent survey did, however, reveal that Supergirl was the most "binged" Arrowverse show.

Again, we'll see where things land, down the line. It seems there is a panic about ratings at the beginning of every new season.

Also: The site that posted the article is notoriously unreliable.
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Critical eye is definitely the best way to read articles of this type, reading it with bias only makes the echo chamber smaller and louder.
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@Romulus, I think that the issues with Justice League go way deeper than different interpretations of some same characters.

From what I've been hearing about DC Comics and their own internal relationships, there is a major growth effort get more teams talking and more characters shared. Think of Crisis, we will literally be seeing multiple version of Superman and I think the audience is excited for it, not confused by it.

Fun anecdote told to press only at NYCC (which Kelsey and I have a representative at, ha, we're growing), Warner Brothers TV was developing a Joker origin story show and didn't know DC Entertainment was developing a Joker origin story movie. This really started the new push for internal communication and a renewed want to share characters and allow new interpretations. Harley Quinn's animated show will really push boundaries in a new way.


Let me address a couple of things in the Admin's post, particularly the last paragraph...

1...the movie Joker is a hit, a big hit.

2...In terms of the Harley Quinn animated project, I saw an interview with the voice of Harley Quinn none other than Kaley Cuoco (from the recently ended Big Bang Theory) on the new Kelly Clarkson Show. And let me tell you, HQ is nothing at all like Penny. Kaley admits dropping some F-bombs is therapy for her.

3..Great to know there is an SG.TV rep that goes to NY Comic Con.
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Supergirl.tv Admin wrote:

"Also for those saying Supergirl needs to end so they can make their DCEU Movie, Why wasn't Smallville axed when Brandon Routh's Superman returns was made."

******

Actually, that is quite simple: Smallville was always touted as a Clark Kent coming-of-age story and not a Superman one. For 10 years just before the suit reveal in the last episode, the story was touted as Clark's adventures in Smallville (hence, the title). He never wore the suit until the very end (2011), way after Superman Returns (2006) was shown. Both were treated as very separate entities and only made passing, indirect reference to one-another after SR ended its theatrical run.

As for the DCEU not making movies and TV shows with the same titular characters while one is being shown in one medium or another, this makes sense in order for fans to make firm distinctions between them. If SG is still on the air when the movie is supposed to be shown, it will create a viewer's nightmare/conundrum in the sense that you would have two vastly different interpretations of the same character going at the same time. See the disaster the last Justice League movie was when they had the Flash on both TV and on the movie screen at the same time. Does anyone truly remember the movie version of him anymore?

I will give you an example of DC's recent mixed up logic: Michael Rosenbaum played the teen/young adult version of Lex Luthor in Smallville as Clark Kent's friend/foe/foil. In Superman Returns, Kevin Spacey played the adult version of him as Brandon Routh's Superman nemesis. A clear character distinction was made. In the most recent Justice League film, that distinction was lost with some of the characters. This is part of the reason why the DCEU is in disarray at the moment. Oil and water don't mix, so to speak. ;)
"Liberation" and "Arm In Arm" - Arkells, from the CD/LP/Download Blink Once. (2021)

"Bitter Taste" - Billy Idol, from the CD/LP/Download The Roadside EP. (2021)

"Run" - OneRepublic, from the CD/LP/Download Human. (2021)
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I'm going to weigh in here. Recently, with the rather large expansion of the sites and shows that Kelsey and I cover, I have been exploring a much larger community of entertainment reporting. I'm getting to know the players, the leakers, the well informed, and the click-baiters.

I have gained a LOT of new sources and contacts and can surprisingly say that I feel like I am a bit more of an informed reporter these days. For those interested on my takes on the larger DC landscape follow me personally on Twitter @EricJohnstonDC. I've seen episodes of Titans that aren't out yet, I've been able to keep pulse on the entire Arrowverse with some powerful press credentials and I've made some industry sources in various locations.

From what I've seen, Cosmic-Book.news is not reliable in the least. They will make up as many stores as they can, if even one sticks, they claim they were in the know all along. I put no value in their reporting and I would encourage all of us to not feel the need to link them at all here. There are other sites that fall into this category but I'm not looking to call people out, I mention them because they have been listed in this thread.

Additionally, let us look at the field as a whole. The CW used to get 0$ on Sunday nights from their new programming because it didn't exist. They relied on syndicated shows that didn't bring in nearly the same revenue Batwoman and Supergirl do. Additionally, Batwoman and the other Arrowverse shows (once the Netflix deal is up) will move to HBO Max exclusively for streaming purposes after the show's broadcast completion. This model is meant to drive up HBO max subscribers and with Warner Brother's owning it all, The CW sits quite happily taking a cut.

Finally, the Arrowverse, even while it is changing, is arguably the best Comic-Based shows on TV. There is not a subscription required to view, and with the changing market on TV, Live +7 means more than Live at all. The resale value of the Arrowverse is much more potent than any traditional ratings system.

Frankly, as long as Grant, Melissa and Ruby wish to stay in their roles, the shows will continue to be made. Syndication, streaming services, resale, collector editions and so on make these properties a gold mine. Not to mention the action figures, statues, pop figures and all other merchandise coming from the Arrowverse.

The DCEU is a mess and is now starting to find more success in these one offs like Joker than it did in the Marvel model. For incredible joined and linked stories, look no further than the Arrowverse. Also for those saying Supergirl needs to end so they can make their DCEU Movie, Why wasn't Smallville axed when Brandon Routh's Superman returns was made.

Ok I'll get off my soap box.
You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun, Kal. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders.
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@LibertyPrime:

Love the use of Statler and Waldorf! Perfect hecklers! :D :D :D
"Liberation" and "Arm In Arm" - Arkells, from the CD/LP/Download Blink Once. (2021)

"Bitter Taste" - Billy Idol, from the CD/LP/Download The Roadside EP. (2021)

"Run" - OneRepublic, from the CD/LP/Download Human. (2021)
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Those writing these articles really need to educate themselves. The reason CW shows get renewed even though their live ratings are not the best is because...the top 4 scripted dramas on broadcast TV in the male/ female viewership split thus far this season are

1. Flash 58%
2. Supergirl 57%
3. Batwoman 56%
4. Black Lightning 50%


All CW shows to be Captain Obvious.

These shows appeal to the hardest demo to grab, the men under 50 demo.


That would be me...with about 5 years left to go in the top of the demo. But I am no fan of Batwoman and Black Lightning.

THAT is what the AD people buying time on the CW are looking for, THAT is what counts. So seriously, using articles like this to back up an opinion is weak.


What it comes down to is disposable income and who has the most of it.


*****

100% agree. Actually, the demo they're actively going for is the 18-34 and as time and stats have proven, the numbers in this bracket just aren't there. whether this is a good or bad thing is up for interpretation. Ironically, the age bracket that's keeping it going is the above-35 male crowd. True, binge / delayed watching is a thing, but it doesn't generate big advertising dollars.

Now, one can safely say that since viewing choices have shifted drastically in the last five years, it is likely that this show and others in the CW stable should really be Netflix or on-demand products only since traditional TV viewing (other than for live sports, news, game shows and sit-coms) is going the way of the dodo.

Given the amount of shows Berlanti has created and continues to push and the various platforms now available, it is likely that a shift to streaming subscription-only services is inevitable. Say bye-bye to traditional TV in about five years.
"Liberation" and "Arm In Arm" - Arkells, from the CD/LP/Download Blink Once. (2021)

"Bitter Taste" - Billy Idol, from the CD/LP/Download The Roadside EP. (2021)

"Run" - OneRepublic, from the CD/LP/Download Human. (2021)
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Tv Line and TV By The Numbers are legitimate sites and have only reported facts about the ratings.

Cosmic Book News is not a legitimate website and has written their article with a clickbait-driven agenda.
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Agreed. I don't see CW cutting any Arrowverse shows, this season, since they are losing Arrow. I also think that, if Supergirl were to end (whenever that may be), it's been on long enough to where the CW would grant them a "final season". Even if it were to be a shortened season. Again, I don't see them doing that this year or next year. But when the time comes.

On another note, related to how long the series will run. It's been stated that lead contracts are typically for 7 years, and supporting are for 3. I'm genuinely curious if Melissa had to sign a new 7-year when the show moved to CW, or if her current contract includes season 1 from CBS. I only ask because of Arrow. It's not ending because of ratings, it's ending because Stephen Amell's contract expired after season 7, and he didn't want to renew, so he agreed to do a shortened, final 8th season.

I would likely watch the show as long as Melissa wants to do it. And it's clear she loves her coworkers. But it's no secret this job is EXHAUSTING, so I'm curious if she'd want to renew when the time is up. Part of me wants her to just so the show can beat Smallville's run, but I also think Smallville ran a few seasons too long...so, it's a toss up. But that's me putting the cart before the horse. We can say, officially, though, that Melissa Benoist has worn an actual super-suit longer than any other Superman or Supergirl actor. The next runner up is Dean Cain, who was Superman for 88 episodes, which Melissa has already beaten. And Tom Welling never wore a proper Superman suit. He wore variants, but even that didn't start until season 9.

For more good news, tvbythenumbers' very own ursine prognosticator, the Cancel Bear, gives Supergirl (as well as the entire slate of programming aired thus far) 4 bears-- "likely to be renewed by May 2020."

This is not counting Arrow and Supernatural, both airing final seasons.

https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/renewcancel/cancel-bear-vs-the-cw-week-4-2019-20/
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