Kara should be nicer to Winn

I read it as her trying to still keep her distance from them and fly solo as a result of you know, the recent trauma. She has still not found her way to balance and she is blowing others off in any way she can.

I am pretty sure her reaction would have been pretty much the same if it was Alex offering to go with her.

or maybe she over heard them mention they were planning on going bowling, so she was conveying 'I will be fine' to them, so they wouldnt feel as though they were obligated to help her and could go enjoy their night. She didnt fight them at all when they insisted.

not everything is a scandal guys!!

I read it as her trying to still keep her distance from them and fly solo as a result of you know, the recent trauma. She has still not found her way to balance and she is blowing others off in any way she can.

I am pretty sure her reaction would have been pretty much the same if it was Alex offering to go with her.

As for last season: she didn't have a conversation with Winn because she was busy with Mon El (and Lena) while he was busy with James. And Winn was the person who went off first for crime fighting rather than hanging out with her.

And the tech support thing; again, she has shown to keep herself at a distance this season; so she goes to Winn only when she needs the tech support because he is the DEO tech person.

I didn't read that (any of that) as "not-genuine" feminism.

The addition of strong female characters; that yeah... I'd consider feminism. And I am happy about that.

Because the writers have'nt written a decent conversation for them?

Actually, everything SSAV said.

And don't forget that Winn cut her out of her life for a while after he kissed her romantically, and she only saw him as a friend.

It feels like Kara alienates her male friends

She's been alienating everyone of late. Even Alex and Lena. She's keeping everyone at a distance, because there is a large part of her that can't handle being hurt, rejected, or abandoned again. She's dealing. Give the poor kid time.

And many times Winn has shown real care for her

I respectfully disagree. In season 1 yes, but in season 2 no.
Remember, it was Winn and James who turned their backs on her t/o last season. After their argument at the DEO, they ask something like, "Where does that leave us" and Kara said Superfriends? James point blank refused to work along Supergirl as he would only be her sidekick, and Winn sided with James and turned his back on her. He even committed what is technically treason by stealing equip from the DEO for the suit, withholding vital information from an DEO op just to 'one up Supergirl.

And how about both time when Kara went missing, he was freaking out over the Guardian mess he and James made and demanded Alex tell Maggie to back off. I didn't see a whole lot of concern for Kara from Winn t/o most of season 2. In fact, I only just started seeing it this season, and it made me happy to see Winn finally exhibit some concern. It made me really happy to see James be a mature supportive friend again. Hopefully, the writers will keep their word about bringing back the S! dynamic for these three.

Winn and James were just doing what friends do

Were they though? If Winn had caught some wind of crime, would they be offering to go with her? Seemed like it was a better alternative to bowling.

I hadn't considered what RSchick said, but that is a possibility. But I think she was just basically saying she didn't need to be big brothered by them. And after the guardian fallout, she's used to doing things on her own without them, but she didn't refuse either.

@inkslinger, think you hit the nail on the head. There is a complete double standard in the fandom of how Kara is to behave versus anyone else.

for example, 5 months after mon-el was sent away, she gets the 'enough with the pity party' line from Alex. So in March if Kara were to deliver that line to Alex the internet would blow up calling for Kara's head.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm watching the same show as others....

And I don't understand the girls vs. boys stuff....

Every person in Kara's life serves a purpose, that purpose serves both her and them.

Alex -- Sister, confidant, partner in their job, yet held at a distance for a time. YET, Kara understands the importance of Maggie in Alex's life. I'm not sure that Maggie ever has gotten Alex and Kara's relationship, the writers haven't written it that way anyway.

Winn -- No matter how much some want Winn to be Kara's BFF again....after the kiss, that will just never happen, it probably wouldn't happen in reality....as much as they could try to bring that back, it will never happen. BUT, we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Winn and Kara love each other and would give their lives for each other. IMO, it is Winn and Alex that have a cool friendship that is building and is fun to watch grow. Winn is Kara's go to when she needs something to help Supergirl fight a specific foe, Winn knows that title, he loves that title, he dwells in that title, and he doesn't really like anyone else tampering with it.....I love that.

Jonn -- He is Kara's father, truly, and the love and care she takes of him is just like a daughter would...he is not someone she would necessarily go to a movie with....that just isn't how they tick. But, OMG, the love there is so touching.

Lena -- is still new. I think there were some that wanted a much stronger relationship last season, whether it be friendship or something else. But, the writers really didn't write them at all close, the dialogue was there at about 3 moments last season, but the time and energy was just not put into that relationship. This season, we are seeing that friendship grow, and I'm loving it. But, there is the "elephant in the room" that is the very fact that "everyone" that is close to Kara knows who she is, EXCEPT Lena.....and yes Cat, but I think Kara knows that she knows. Why has Kara not wanted to tell Lena, her new friend? I think that is an answer that we will slowly learn throughout this season....damn that's good stuff.

James -- James was the missing link last season. They just did not click at all in any capacity. As her boss, as her boyfriends, as her friend, nothing......and I believe that is simply because of how the writers wrote Guardian. It just wasn't good......plain and simple. This season, they seemed to have found their way back, and that is that person that Kara can go to that knows Clark/Superman better than even she does.....and that is a clarity that she sometimes needs. I think, I HOPE, that he is realizing that he can be a help to Supergirl, to Kara with out putting on a suit.

Kara will have times with her girls, she will have times with her boys, and she will love all of them, and they will love her and they will go through good times and bad times together as they already have these first 4 episodes. My goodness so much has happened.....it feels like an entire season of wonderfulness and we've only had 4 episodes. It blows my mind....

But I do not believe for one moment, that Kara cares for one over the other. I don't think the writers have written it that way. When they need her she is there, when she needs them they are there. We have seen them laugh, cry, get angry and come together already in 4 episodes. There isn't a boy vs. girl thing here.......it is the ebb and flow of family.


A couple of other things....as far as Winn's plot, I think it has been 100% better than either of the 2 seasons before. He is coming into his own, he is far more confident, except when getting the finger from Alex...lol Winn has been an important part of each episode this season. He is and will always be the guy at the computer with the crazy exposition that know one understands, yet is so important to the plot. That's Winn....would I like to see the internal battle of his DNA come into play this season.....OH HELL YES.

As far as this last episode....yes, she did not need to be big brothered and that is how she took it, with a giggle....they were probably thinking....damn this sounds like a cool investigation far more exciting than bowling. They weren't going to protect her, and if truth be told, she probably knew that and they certainly new that....and that is why there was no argument over them going whatsoever. WE HAD THE SUPERFRIENDS BACK TOGETHER PEOPLE....damn, enjoy it.

I think Kara is returning to her familiar persona incrementally, and that process is moving faster with some in her circle than with others. IMO she is furthest along with J'onn and Alex. Winn's turn will come, I'm sure.

Winn was the first person she confessed her secret too. I do feel that she's been unnecessarily distant from him at times. And since his alien gf disappeared, Winn's plot has been lacking this season.

or maybe she over heard them mention they were planning on going bowling, so she was conveying 'I will be fine' to them, so they wouldnt feel as though they were obligated to help her and could go enjoy their night. She didnt fight them at all when they insisted.

I hadn't thought that; but yeah.. possibly this too.

I agree with you but will hold off my comments till I see how the rest of the season shakes out.

I haven't seen that at all....

@inkslinger, think you hit the nail on the head. There is a complete double standard in the fandom of how Kara is to behave versus anyone else.

for example, 5 months after mon-el was sent away, she gets the 'enough with the pity party' line from Alex. So in March if Kara were to deliver that line to Alex the internet would blow up calling for Kara's head.

Heh! RS Chick, Kara did deliver that line when Alex said that. That was easily the worst thing (other than Red Kryptonite Kara) that Kara has ever said to Alex. And, internet didn't blow up; I hope.

Anyways, I don't care what the fandom says; it shows how much they care about each other and trust eachother to be able to even lash out at each other like that.

@inkslinger, think you hit the nail on the head. There is a complete double standard in the fandom of how Kara is to behave versus anyone else.

for example, 5 months after mon-el was sent away, she gets the 'enough with the pity party' line from Alex. So in March if Kara were to deliver that line to Alex the internet would blow up calling for Kara's head.

Heh! RS Chick, Kara did deliver that line when Alex said that. That was easily the worst thing (other than Red Kryptonite Kara) that Kara has ever said to Alex. And, internet didn't blow up; I hope.

and what was your reactions to those 2?

I kind of want Winn's alien GF to come back. She seemed to be interesting, at least to me.

ometimes I wonder if I'm watching the same show as others....

And I don't understand the girls vs. boys stuff....

I have so often agreed so much with your viewpoints so much that I don't even feel the need to add anything. That includes what you just wrote above. So Yes. From catching glimpses of your voice thus far, I do seem to be watching the same show as you.

There is no girls vs boys intent from my post. I was responding to the question if Kara should be nicer to Winn, or if her response to them coming along, was feminism gone wrong.

So the question of is Kara held to a different standard than everyone else on the show that RSchick and SSAV have brought up is a valid one. Often times, THE superhero of the show IS held to a higher standard, and it's good thing. They are after all, the moral center of the story. Sometimes, even often times, they may loose there way, and need other moral compasses along the way, but they are expected to return to that moral center. Throughout the series, Kara has often had to pay for her 'sins' and usually the one to apologize. Citizens turning their back on her thru red K. Loosing James and Winn's friendship because she didn't go along with them right away. Getting fired for blogging. Being told she's not part of the family because she went along with Mon El and Winn's suspicions. To name a few.

I have not seen other characters on this show having to face consequences of their behavior. I still can't believe all the shenanigans that Winn and James got away with with the Guardian stuff with zero consequences. if that had been Alex and Maggie instead, I would have had the exact same complaint.

I personally would love for the writers to bring the season 1 dynamic back for the original 'superfriends'. And season 3 looks like they are fixing it. I just wish the show writers would give the guys better character development other than comic/tech relief for Winn, and well, I'm not sure what they can do with James other than the rumored romance. I'd rather they develop his friendship with Kara and find that being a RH man to someone who is 'a miracle' in his eyes is nothing to look down at.

for example, 5 months after mon-el was sent away, she gets the 'enough with the pity party' line from Alex. So in March if Kara were to deliver that line to Alex the internet would blow up calling for Kara's head.

Hmm, I would not want to be around for that.. LOL

for example, 5 months after mon-el was sent away, she gets the 'enough with the pity party' line from Alex. So in March if Kara were to deliver that line to Alex the internet would blow up calling for Kara's head.

Hmm, I would not want to be around for that.. LOL

Oh yes, the double standard of the "actor fans" of the show is quite obvious, but hey....it is what it is...

I see the points in all sides of the argument whether it be against that originally said, supportive of that originally said, or saying that James and Winn had just as much to do with it as Kara. It's not my goal to contribute to the argument too much and deny the valid points that have been made by all thus far, I simply would like to point out a few things. Make of it as you will.

1. Part of last season's dynamics can be explained through the fact that this is a television show, and in order to make it more interesting you get the audience distraught that Kara, James, and Winn aren't getting along nearly as well as they did in the previous season. As a result, we as the audience want that to be resolved so as it's slowly resolved we're all right along side the characters (or so to speak) cheering them on. Kara went through several episodes where she seemed to be turning away from everyone in her life, or those in her life were turning away from her (or so it seemed - it was around mid-season number wise for episodes).

2. Season 3 Episode 2 Kara went to Winn rather than Alex, and told him how she knew that it was manipulation through fear. She told him her greatest fear and confided in him, and even told him not to tell Alex and J'onn. Yes the first encounter can be batted aside through argument that she was just trying to help with the telepathy suppressors Winn had been tasked with making, but later she confided in him once again in the med. bay after she had experienced a panic attack at CatCo. Whether she shows it all the time or not she cares for Winn and respects him (even if he does Star Wars references when they don't need it).

Like I said, make of this as you will, but I just wanted to point out a few points that seem to have been missed.

From the point of view of someone who just stepped back into the show this season and who loves Winn, I can't say that I didn't notice any type of friction between Winn and Kara.

I agree with SSAV that the conversations that the two have had thus far seem to be on par with the depiction that Kara is still keeping everyone at an arms length and that Winn is very conscious of Kara's need to do that. I mean, if Kara turns down an opportunity to have potstickers, as she did in the season opener, then we KNOW that her recovery is going to take awhile .

Ink Slinger, like you, I do hope that the writers are going back to the super friends relationship that we saw in the first season. I'm a little biased with Winn but, he and Kara were shown to be pretty close friends first season as was evident in the fact that he was the one she told first about being a superhero and who she talked to, outside of Alex, about her social life. I do understand that she will have female friends like Lena, too, but I would like to see her using Winn as a confidant more to reinforce that friendship. What I like the most about Kara's relationship with Winn and James is that it has the possibility of showing that men and women can be just good friends, without the conflict of a romantic entanglement.

I have a problem with saying..."going back to...." because people change. Winn still has aspects of the Winn of the first season, but he is very different from that person now. The difference between Kara of the 1st season and Kara of this season is HUGE, and I don't mean in her leap from "happy go lucky" to "alex"....I'm talking about abilities, critical thinking, confidence, etc....is far different from season 1. She needed Winn in season 1, she wasn't exactly being welcomed by Jonn in the first season until the 2nd half of the season...and I'm sorry, but I never saw James as the mentor that Mehcad said he would be, I saw a wishy washy guy that couldn't figure out which girl he wanted. Yes, in the 2nd episode of Season 1 they were helping her out, but she doesn't need that kind of help anymore. Nor, do I want her to need that kind of help anymore, one of the most exciting things of this season is that we have seen a much more confident, capable Kara at work and as Supergirl.

Now with that said, her and James go out doing journalism investigations here and there, like this last episode....definitely. A game night here and there? definitely....

But as for Winn? They are superfriends, she as the brawn Winn as the brains. I don't want that changed. I do not want Winn going back to the puppy dog following Kara around of Season 1.

@inkslinger, think you hit the nail on the head. There is a complete double standard in the fandom of how Kara is to behave versus anyone else.

for example, 5 months after mon-el was sent away, she gets the 'enough with the pity party' line from Alex. So in March if Kara were to deliver that line to Alex the internet would blow up calling for Kara's head.

Heh! RS Chick, Kara did deliver that line when Alex said that. That was easily the worst thing (other than Red Kryptonite Kara) that Kara has ever said to Alex. And, internet didn't blow up; I hope.

and what was your reactions to those 2?

I was not happy that Alex called it a pity party; but that did allow Kara to express her feelings instead of keeping on bottling it up. And, I did understand why Alex had to do it.

I was impressed with the dialogue after that. That Kara has a sense of being different from human is only natural. She did live 12 years in another planet; her formative years really. And there might be subconscious stuff that she thinks about humans that needs to be dealt with. It seems this season is about that.

And combine that probably with how she needed to push Alex away (because she may not want to lose another person; and love is a weakness anyways) and her dialogue makes perfect sense.

I really like it when they emphasise on how Kara, unlike Clark, is not really human (in a cultural sense; I do not think the finer values--kindness, compassion, and bravery--is specifically human no matter how much it is called "humanity". That is just our hubris (and the fact that we know only animals other than us; no other comparable species) that calls them that).

I do think each of the people in the main cast is important to Kara in their own way.
I think Alex is her rock, her emotional bulwark,
Winn the cheerleader who could actually show enthusiasm for things just for their sake and thus make her enthusiastic about them too;
James the person who (should have been; and he is coming back to that) shows the way to the standards of honor and such; moral compass and idealism so to speak;
J'onn the only person who understands her experience (I don't think he is father to Kara as he is to Alex) and can walk with her to the dark areas that would lead;
and Lena the only person among the lot who needs her more than Kara needs her; and thus forces her to think outside of Kara Zor El (more than any of the others--I mean, Alex would let her be selfish; just be Kara; that is the freedom she has with her; as would J'onn; Winn admires Kara too much; James would just look at the idealism side).

Coming back to the discussion:
I don't think Kara considers gender to be an important factor in any of those.