Does anybody think Lena and Kara will be friends again or is Kara's betrayal too much for their friendship to handle. I certainly hope not they are good for each other.

I think a lot of this scenario of the "Lena doesn't know" plot has been from Lena's perspective. Our perspective is our truth, whether it is correct or not, it is our truth. What Lena sees is that, everyone in her life.....EVERYONE....knew a very important bit of information, and she didn't. What she saw on the screen is something we don't get when we have been in situations where it seems like everyone in your crowd knew something but you didn't get the memo. That happens a lot to me in my family. What Lena saw through the footage that Lex had was how Kara physically made decisions to do things that kept Lena from finding out. So, not only was it a mental decision to not tell her, she followed through time and time again to keep the information from her. Then add on top of that, that EVERYONE ELSE knew.

Lena for the first time put her whole trust in someone. Kara..... people can debate till the cows come home as to why she couldn't figure it out on her own. I think she might well have suspected but put it out of her mind because why......why would her best friend, her adopted family, keep that information from her. I mean, seriously....you don't know, what you don't know....lol Kara has told her she isn't like her brother, her stepmother, that the Luthors are lucky to have her, not the other way around,
WHY would Kara keep that from her? Is what is going through her mind now....probably over and over again.

So, though yes, I am very tired of Kara apologizing to Lena for this or that, for me it is more the apologizing for being upset about the making of kryptonite, that apology pissed me off, and then for both Lena and Alex to come at Supergirl, that REALLY PISSED ME OFF. But for this plot scenario, Kara should have told much earlier than this, Kara allowed her fear of losing Lena as a friend keep her from doing the right thing. NOW we are seeing the consequences of that, again from Lena's perspective. WE KNOW KARA'S PERSPECTIVE, she loves Lena as a sister and only wants the best for her. We know Kara's heart very well......so though we may be mad at how Lena seems to be handling this bit of information.....lol, hey its her truth and holy cow....at how it is playing out. I think we are seeing not just pain from the not being told, but ALL OF THE EMOTIONS that she has pushed down throughout her entire life as people kept things from her, manipulated her behind her back, and she was just beginning to feel safe and BAM! I think it is far more HOW she found out, than WHAT she found out.....and I think we see that playing out in the trailer. I'm freaking excited to see how this plays out in the first few episodes. I may be pissed off after I see it, but I'm just going to look forward to it for now.

Also, let me be clear, when I say...this or that pissed me off.....ex: Lena/Alex vs. Kara it is all within this fictional world of Supergirl. I don't take any of this personally or think the writer's are creatively wrong....they have every right to write it as they wish. As far as people being happy about Lena punching Kara, those people have taken this far beyond that of fictional characters. They see KATIE as their God, so whatever KATIE's character does is the exact right thing to do. On the other side you have those losing their marbles on Twitter because Katie said. I guess in one of the interviews that Supergirl deserved to be punched. I assume she is speaking as Lena, and take it as that.....others are losing their minds over it. I see them as fictional characters and we have one hell of a storyline to watch come Oct. 6th....lol

Oh! That was pretty clearly a joke on Katie's part. She is having fun with the character and it is nice to see the cast joke around.

I guess I don't like the double standard about keeping things as far as the characters as concerned. However, that doesn't mean I am losing my sleep over it either. Any more than yours, I guess (and I am not justifying; I know you didn't direct that at me).

But, you are right. This is their show and they can write it to realise their vision. Katie did say something interesting about her struggle being whether she can put this fact behind her and realise that the truth was kept from her for the best reasons. So, yeah. I do have hopes for how it all might turn out.

I understand, If Kara wants to tell her....that is why I say she should have told her... why? Because you cannot in one line say you are a kind, beautiful, soul.......in another, you are not your step mother, brother etc....I'm your friend, I'm not going anywhere, and then not tell that person this secret...but everyone else and their friggin fog knows.....including people at the DEO, she really has no relationship with at all....and on top of that, she knows Lillian knows, she knows Lex knows....at that point, she really should have told her. NOW, with that said.....I TOTALLY understand why she didn't....she passed a point of no return after Season 2....meaning, her fear of losing Lena as a friend outweighed the need to tell her. But, if you are going to lift someone up multiple times as your friend, as family, etc...you need to trust them to be those things as well. Lena has running through her mind Thanksgiving with all these people, Christmas, game nights....being treated by Kara exactly like she treats her closest framily....they all know this secret, but she didn't tell you. WOW.....

NOW did Lena keep secrets from Kara? Heck yeah, should she have told her? Heck yeah......JAMES knew things he should have told Kara as well.....so MANY, MANY are definitely guilty of keeping secrets....they ALL should have come clean in my opinion. BUT, if they had.....we wouldn't have had this totally juicy storyline. So I'm very happy no one told her.....lol

@Kelly wrote (and @SSAV replied);

"I guess in one of the interviews that Supergirl deserved to be punched..."

****

There will be a lot of that - both figuratively and literally - this season once the creative / critical dust has settled and the post mortem on S5 is done. Out come the Kryptonite-laced brass knuckles from all corners. It will get very messy.

Just sayin'!

I believe it to be plain and simple, s VR program, we will see of course but I will wait to see. Ithe problem by most, not me...but most is the question, did she deserve the punch....IMO no one deserves to be punched unless in the process of self defense or defense of someone else, that is all I have to say on that. I don't know of the interview comment by Katie, so I don't know the context.

With that said, is it a case of REAL reality not VR, no Harun-el, etc.....THAT is a concern in the writing, again have to wait and see, a judgment call at this point is a waste of time.

Excellent read, Kelly. And 100% this...

..for me it is more the apologizing for being upset about the making of kryptonite, that apology pissed me off, and then for both Lena and Alex to come at Supergirl, that REALLY PISSED ME OFF.

I think a lot of this scenario of the "Lena doesn't know" plot has been from Lena's perspective. Our perspective is our truth, whether it is correct or not, it is our truth. What Lena sees is that, everyone in her life.....EVERYONE....knew a very important bit of information, and she didn't. What she saw on the screen is something we don't get when we have been in situations where it seems like everyone in your crowd knew something but you didn't get the memo. That happens a lot to me in my family. What Lena saw through the footage that Lex had was how Kara physically made decisions to do things that kept Lena from finding out. So, not only was it a mental decision to not tell her, she followed through time and time again to keep the information from her. Then add on top of that, that EVERYONE ELSE knew.

Lena for the first time put her whole trust in someone. Kara..... people can debate till the cows come home as to why she couldn't figure it out on her own. I think she might well have suspected but put it out of her mind because why......why would her best friend, her adopted family, keep that information from her. I mean, seriously....you don't know, what you don't know....lol Kara has told her she isn't like her brother, her stepmother, that the Luthors are lucky to have her, not the other way around,
WHY would Kara keep that from her? Is what is going through her mind now....probably over and over again.

So, though yes, I am very tired of Kara apologizing to Lena for this or that, for me it is more the apologizing for being upset about the making of kryptonite, that apology pissed me off, and then for both Lena and Alex to come at Supergirl, that REALLY PISSED ME OFF. But for this plot scenario, Kara should have told much earlier than this, Kara allowed her fear of losing Lena as a friend keep her from doing the right thing. NOW we are seeing the consequences of that, again from Lena's perspective. WE KNOW KARA'S PERSPECTIVE, she loves Lena as a sister and only wants the best for her. We know Kara's heart very well......so though we may be mad at how Lena seems to be handling this bit of information.....lol, hey its her truth and holy cow....at how it is playing out. I think we are seeing not just pain from the not being told, but ALL OF THE EMOTIONS that she has pushed down throughout her entire life as people kept things from her, manipulated her behind her back, and she was just beginning to feel safe and BAM! I think it is far more HOW she found out, than WHAT she found out.....and I think we see that playing out in the trailer. I'm freaking excited to see how this plays out in the first few episodes. I may be pissed off after I see it, but I'm just going to look forward to it for now.

Oh! I agree from Lena's perspective. It makes sense and I am not surprised she is going full fledged anti-Kara on this.

I don't agree that Kara should have told Lena though. Not unless she wanted to. She had her own issues and it shouldn't be discounted.

What bothers me most is the fandom reaction and just how many people take pleasure in the fact that we have Lena punching Kara. Oh and how the EPs and even Melissa these days seem to think it is all Kara's fault. They seem to have forgotten their history with the Kryptonite, Harun El etc.

I couldn't totally blame Alex for taking Lena's side because Alex is clannish and she defends people in her circle and at the time, SG was outside her circle because of the memory wipe. I didn't particularly like it but I understood it. And, well, it made Kara do something independently of Alex's emotional support and come out on top; convincing both Lena and Alex to work with her. I am proud of Kara for that. I didn't want her to apologise though.

From a general standpoint, keeping her truth was not a betrayal. So, for everyone from the actors to the showrunners to the fandom (most of it) to continue harping on that as something that means 'Lena is right to have issues and Kara is a bad friend and had no right to keep part of herself from her.' That is what I dislike.

It is not a matter of right or wrong, so making it a matter of right or wrong is in my opinion wrong.

I'd have liked a more well-balanced approach. Where Kara takes Lena's reaction as a consequence of her decision but also decides that she herself wasn't wrong. But, want to help Lena anyways because she is Kara and she knows Lena has been hurt and she wants to erase that pain.

It's just the word betrayal and always blaming Kara for any issues that Lena has with her and never taking Kara's side is what bugs me.

I hope they become enemies. For 2 reasons the annoying SC fandom that keeps spamming every comment with their delusional agenda and attacking everyone not having their view and because its what i have been waiting for since she was introduced. And because Lex big ace in the hole from the season finale should not go to waste

Just mute them....I come here to not hear them or hear about them....really getting old.

Hello, Ravansol, and you may be new to the Forum, as I was myself not so long ago, but you are definitely jumping right into the thick of things, so good for you. And thank you for the kind words; it's always nice when you can get someone else to consider other's viewpoints, whether they agree with them or not - yet another good thing about the exchange of opinions on the Forum.
I see your point about Nia knowing that Kara is Supergirl, although I think that Kara told her much more out of sympathy for what both of them (as fellow aliens) were going through with their own sisters, rather than because of Kara wanting a 'surrogate sister' because of Alex's loss of memory. And although Nia did find out about Kara before Lena did, the fact that Lena probably doesn't know yet that Nia is Dreamer, or that Nia knows Kara's secret for any reason, might have Nia out of the way of Lena's 'line of fire' for the time being; unlike Alex, James, J'onn, Brainy, and Lillian, who were all identified by Lex as knowing Kara's secret. Otherwise, some very good points on your part.
And what sharp eyes you have to catch my slip-up. I can be a bit long-winded at times (as many other Forum regulars can probably attest to), and I was trying to be briefer than usual. Sadly, my choice of words apparently did not properly match my thoughts.
We all sometimes do what Lena has done in the past, and is doing now, and what we all presume she will be doing early into Season Five: looking at things that happen from the point of view that they will confirm or reinforce what we want to believe, rather than staying open-minded to what we need to believe; it's just human nature.
I did not mean to imply that Lena is intentionally looking for what she consciously knows are just excuses to feel hurt, but rather that her experiences over the years since her childhood have her unknowingly seizing onto any opportunity that comes along to confirm, at least to her own mind-set, that she ends up being hurt by other people because she wants to believe that they deliberately intended to hurt her (which is not entirely untrue when we saw how Lex treated her).
So, what most other people would look at as "yeah, those things happen" and just shrug off, are seen by Lena as being "proof" of her being perpetually victimized by others. And, as has been pointed out by many people on this topic, it is Lena's perception of events that she latches onto and clings to, not necessarily what is really happening as far as how anyone else might see it.
One thing for certain: it's going to be an interesting ride for them - and for us viewers - in Season Five.

Look at all the conversation. Heh. So let’s tackle these in order.

Thanks for the welcome, Brierrose. Truly appreciated.

“Forgiving is not the same as forgetting and when/if they reconcile I want the relationship to be forever altered. Trust has/will be broken on both sides and that should always cast a bit of a shadow over the relationship.”

I would love the writers to reflect this as well. The reality of the situation of any relationship, friendship, partner or otherwise, is based on the premise of trust and communication. There was a challenge to that aspect of the relationship. I mean if you really think about, the communication, lack thereof or omission, regardless of reasoning, was really the cause of the rift. Realistically, even if persons within that relationship move forward, there is a lot of baggage to move through because of it. It can make a friendship stronger or shatter it completely. I don’t like the premise of POOF, now it’s like it never happened. No... that’s not what makes people grow. We can not change by ignoring the problems that led to this situation to begin with.

In of that, you said you wanted the relationship to be different because you wanted it to go a different way then Lex and Clark. I agree that there would be similarities, but I think the premise would be different because they are NOT Lex and Clark. I know that’s an overly a simplistic rebuttal, but both women wanted to step away from the weight of family name and stand on their own two feet. They have shown that, although there are commonalities between them, they forge their own path, their own way and make their own choices about how they decided to react to their world and the situations that present themselves. As I previously stated, I wanted Lena to be Kara’s adversary, not necessarily their enemy. I want to see Lena and Kara differ on their views and challenge not only each other’s beliefs and where those boundaries lines exist in their senses of judgement but for the audience as well. Just take this entire thread. It’s already begun! Keep the ball rolling.


Hello, Richard! It is an interesting topic, isn’t it?

You are correct about the “everyone” umbrella! Thank you for pointing that out. Not everyone knew about Kara’s secret and we have been operating under that for a little while. I would argue that even though Nia didn’t know right away, she still found about it before Lena did. And Kara chose to tell her because she missed her sister, Nia was dealing with her own sister issues, and Kara was struggling with Alex not knowing who she was. Additionally, I would argue that Nia ended up filling an immediate emotional need for a familial bond in knowing who she was. Something that you WOULD think that would fall on the role of someone who you identify as your best friend. As for the others, no disagreements, spot on.

As for Lena looking for any excuse to be hurt, not sure I agree with that. It takes a lot for people to learn and grow from abuse and trauma, something most of the characters had learned in spades. Everyone reacts differently to it and shows personal growth in an abundance of ways. What seems one way to us could be a person working through an evolution of a coping skill, wether good or bad, and trying to figure out a way of dealing with the situation. I don’t get the feel from the character that they are trying to be emotionally manipulative nor are the seeking a pattern of victimization. However, I will concede that this is the lense -I- am viewing the story. As it has been brought up already, much of the story and the character viewpoints are challenges of perception for the viewing audience. Great stuff!


Hello, SuperTweety! Love the handle!

To be fair, we don’t know if Lena is talking directly to Kara about it yet. This is still all speculation about our “What If’s” of the show. Showing the friendship of two strong women, as you said was your desire, does show that friendship being tested, though. Having it tested over an issue of trust this way is certainly a real world way of approaching it. I can’t wait to see what happens and how they decide to grow individually and as friends! So soon now!


Hello Kelly!

I know that I, like you, was referring to those present at the holiday celebration in my post. You have friends and then you have friends you suffer through that 3rd game of “Betrayal at House on the Hill” for even though you are all exhausted and want to get home. Those folx knew who Kara was, except Lena, regardless of the rhyme or reason as you spotted. It can be challenging to be the one person kept out of the loop. I was honestly waiting for someone to make a reference and Lena to be like, uh... what? But it didn’t happen. *sigh* Ah, dream world. But that world evolves everyday. Beauty of the TV show, isn’t it?


Still enjoying this conversations so much! It won’t be long now! Woo! So many unanswered questions! So many possibilities!

This is proving to be a very interesting topic, with some good diversity of opinions expressed by all contributors.
However, there is one item which a few people have pointed out, but which is totally incorrect: essentially, that "everyone knew about Kara except Lena".
Samantha and Ruby Arias were friends of Kara's group of friends for most of Season Three, and neither of them ever found out that Kara was Supergirl.
Nia Nal did not know that Kara was Supergirl at the time that she and Lena first met, or at the later times that they had dinner together at Kara's place; that happened only much later on.
Manchester Black obviously did not know about Kara.
And Kelly Olsen still doesn't know about Kara being Supergirl or, presumably, about J'onnz's true identity, or about Brainy being from the future either.
Lena may indeed desperately want to believe that everyone except she knew about Kara's secret, but this is just plain and simply not true, not by a long shot.
Having said that, and given that Lena seems to be determined to find any excuse that she can use to feel hurt, reality probably will not matter to her, only her perceptions of that.

I think people are talking about the inner circle of friends....those that were at Thanksgiving dinner in Season 4 would be considered the inner circle of friends and everyone their knew Kara was Supergirl except Lena which is why I used Thanksgiving as a memory Lena might would have that could be a thorn in her side, so to speak.

I love this show but I'll be direct here if this results in the loss of their friendship or Lena turning evil from it then I'm gone. I think that they are making Lena to be a small, petulant little girl who can't just do the adult thing and speak directly to Kara about it. Get it out in the open! If she thinks Kara held her identity back to hurt Lena then she's super-shallow...pun intended. They have made Lena to be smart and yet naive and blind all at the same time. If you re-watch the first season it's obvious that Cat knew about Kara from the moment she stepped out of her limo and knowingly stated..."It's you." Lena and Kara have spent way more time together than Cat and Kara ever did so either Lena is a blind fool or she knew.

Why can't they just take the strong friendship of two amazing women and grow it, show them not being so shallow and immature but rising above and being adults, talking openly and honestly, even if it hurts?

This is proving to be a very interesting topic, with some good diversity of opinions expressed by all contributors.
However, there is one item which a few people have pointed out, but which is totally incorrect: essentially, that "everyone knew about Kara except Lena".
Samantha and Ruby Arias were friends of Kara's group of friends for most of Season Three, and neither of them ever found out that Kara was Supergirl.
Nia Nal did not know that Kara was Supergirl at the time that she and Lena first met, or at the later times that they had dinner together at Kara's place; that happened only much later on.
Manchester Black obviously did not know about Kara.
And Kelly Olsen still doesn't know about Kara being Supergirl or, presumably, about J'onnz's true identity, or about Brainy being from the future either.
Lena may indeed desperately want to believe that everyone except she knew about Kara's secret, but this is just plain and simply not true, not by a long shot.
Having said that, and given that Lena seems to be determined to find any excuse that she can use to feel hurt, reality probably will not matter to her, only her perceptions of that.