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  3. Supergirl General Discussion
  4. Wednesday, 11 March 2020
I have heard publicly and privately that my concerns regarding William might be misplaced.

Some context before I begin:
There do9es appear to be a recurring theme since the CW move. Kara has a type. Someone that treats her like dirt and doesn't listen to her, then you have friends and family practically guilt tripping her into relationships. That's a dangerous theme to be teaching young girls

To which I replied:
I'm glad someone else recognizes that.

It's very frustrating for a show that preaches female empowerment to reinforce the delusion that if you dig deep enough, you can find that the (admittedly hot) person that treats you poorly is really just misunderstood--or worse can change--if you just give them a chance or two. Or several...

It's dangerous for anyone to believe, really, but especially for young women.


I don't want to focus on the "guilt trip" aspect, because I am not entirely convinced that's going on myself.

First off, I am not saying that the character of William is a bad person. In story, he had very good reasons for treating Kara the way he did at first. Therein lies the problem, as far as I'm concerned.

In the fictional universe, William is a great guy who undercut Kara with (arguably) the best of intentions. Kara was understandably outraged by his behavior. When she understood his reasons, she saw him for the man of upright character he really is. Good for Kara, but...

In the real world, people who treat you poorly overwhelmingly do not have valid reasons for doing so. But they always have tons of excuses. I have seen too many people suffer horribly, because they were convinced that if they just looked deep enough or tried hard enough they would find the wonderful person underneath. By "suffer horribly," I'm talking about broken bones, imprisonment in one's own home, death threats, theft to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars, completely shattered lives. And those on the receiving end were almost exclusively women.

First with Mon-El and now with William Dey, Kara has been presented with and fallen for jerks that turned out to have a heart of gold. When writing for a strong woman lead in an openly progressive-leaning show, I would have thought dispelling that particular myth would be foremost on the creators' minds.

In story, William is a great guy. Wherever their relationship goes, if it goes anywhere, I don't think he's out to harm Kara. He's not "problematic," as such.The story arc is.

I'm not necessarily an advocate of "woke" storytelling, but would it kill the writers to provide a healthy romantic relationship for their lead character that's based on mutual respect and kindness from the get go?
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I've very much enjoyed Kara and William throughout the season but especially so in the Post-Crisis episodes (10 to 14). I find them to be sweet, cute and really nice to watch. I know I smile when I watch Kara smile when she's with William.

provide a healthy romantic relationship for their lead character that's based on mutual respect and kindness from the get go?


Unless I've missed something they haven't even gone out on their 1st date yet so aren't they actually starting their possible romantic relationship from a place of mutual respect and kindness for each other?.

The way I saw it in Episode 12 was Kara really liked William and wanted to date him but stopped herself in order to protect her secret identity. In Episode 14 Alex (being the big sis who knows her little sis well) can see that Kara has feelings for William and I believe was encouraging (not guilt-tripping) her into giving going out on a date a try, no harm can be done as Kara and William have come to know each other over a few months, it's not like they're strangers who met on a dating website for example. If dating doesn't work out then Kara will be fully capable of making the decision for herself and they'll just remain co-workers and friends.

The point I bolded is semantics. I and many others identified William as the new love interest even before his debut and in spite of the lame wedding ring misdirect.

Again, I am not talking here about guilt tripping. I am not slagging any of the male cast or characters. (And I don't ship Lena with anyone.)

I am categorically not saying that William is a bad guy or dangerous in any way.

I am calling out the writers for depicting a pattern of behavior in Kara that would be decidedly unhealthy in the real world.

The fact is Kara bailed on the one relationship that came from mutual values and respect. As soon as James became available to her, she dumped him. Fair enough--I agreed the characters worked better as friends. Shortly thereafter, despite frustrations with Mon-El, who had literally just bought his fancy new suit with Eve's credit card, she was intrigued enough to dance with him, leaving Winn and James (and me, to be honest) dumbstruck.

A similar "hate at first sight turns to romance" dynamic emerges with William. Though I do agree that he is less egregious in his behavior.

To be blunt, it teaches people to ignore warning signs.

It's a bad look for a show that at least pretends to be aware of its own significance. Which brings us to this:
I'm not quite sure I understand why Kara's relationship has to be seen as sending a message to young girls?, I see it as a nice little bit of fantasy within a fantasy TV show.

With all respect, because the creators and cast have made it a point of pride that they have crafted a show that does exactly that. They strive to be the political show, the feminist show, the show that breaks barriers, that teaches young women to be strong. Because they have staked that claim, I don't think the issues I have raised can be dismissed as harmless fantasy.

Kara is a character that, while by no means perfect, is presented as heroic--someone to emulate; she provides examples of positive values in action. In my opinion, they cheapen Kara when they pull stuff like this and communicated ideas with harmful consequences if employed outside the safe realm of contrived fiction.
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I'm not a fan of William. But I really did not understand all this surge of hatred towards this relationship. I'm not going to make a big speech Aragorn said exactly what I thought.

If Kara can forgive Mon El, who she is ready to do the same with Lena who committed all the betrayals possible, I really do not see why William who did nothing reprehensible would be a direct no despite her clearly want to say yes the first time.

Nevertheless I hope that it will be in the background as for Alex and Kelly lately. I find that there is a fairly good balance right now.
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It's not a particularly well done romance. But it's not nearly as bad as some of the online fandom rage would have us believe. There was some genuine chemistry during their karaoke scene from a few episodes back. And Melissa is a good enough actor to sell having feelings for someone who isn't her partner, IRL. She sold her puppy love feelings for James, back in season 1, really well. The problem was I don't think they really sold to us WHY she was infatuated with him. And, as an actress, she can sell this colleague-turned-romantic-interest relationship, if they pursue it. They just have to make sure it's relevant in the writing.

They need to find the line between having William be a genuinely good person, deserving of Kara's romantic interest, and yet don't let it completely dominate the overarching plot.

My really big concern, plot wise, is the "difficult news" Kara must deal with in the episode 16 synopsis. I'm really hoping they don't make Kara pregnant over some one-night-stint with William, just so they can work the pregnancy into the script. Don't get me wrong, if Kara had a seasons' long love interest, akin to Flash's Iris, Arrow's Felicity, or Superman's Lois, then yes, it might work organically. But rushing progress in a relationship with a new character is a bad idea.

I also don't know how they'd work the superhero duties, if they made Melissa's character pregnant, but I'm fully aware that this is a show that tries it's best to promote the best equality it can. As such, I can genuinely see these showrunners trying to pull something like that off, despite it being absolutely unprecedented in the character's history in I think just about any medium.

If they were to somehow work the pregnancy into the actual story, I could see Kara somehow carrying a child as a surrogate for Alex...but Kara also doesn't strike me as the type who'd put her (or her sister's) child in danger to keep up with her heroics. Thus, I feel we'd logically lose the Kara as a superhero for an extended period, and in the process, lose a ton of viewer interest in the show...anyone who tunes in to see Kara be Supergirl.

Anyway, sorry for the long, late-night, rambling post. I got off topic, really fast. I haven't had time to get on the forum much, so I had to spew my thoughts, lol.
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At some point we discover that "William" is also employed by MI.5 or 6 Or perhaps MI.10, Her Majesty's Superhero Secret Service, their DEO. There is already a strong clue out there.
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You should've seen the voracity at IMDB for this episode...Though I saw things on Instagram that were in Portuguese, I think it said the episode got a 3.6 rating!

And I bet you dollars to donuts, most of the people giving the show low ratings...must be those social media shipper trolls, like the ones Kelly said made her leave Twitter. My Twitter account fell to its so-called algorithm. And frankly I don't care about Twitter either.
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There is no guilt tripping at all. Even in the episode she rejected him she told Alex on their couch scene that she likes him. Alex already knew Kara was in to him. She has been into William for quite some time now. You can also practically see it the way she act around him. She is a bit nervous and flustered. Also William has never once been mean to Kara. Not once. In the beginning of the season he was putting on a facade and he already told her that too. Now after he has told her everything he is simply the most sweet and perfect gentleman.

All of this saying guilt tripping is coming from the same Lena and SC stans that ship Kara with one at the same time puts Kara in an ice prison with kryptonite. She even manipulated Kara into doing a crime. The sc people been hating on the whole male cast. Now they have begun making petitions, boycotts just because Kara and Willam thing. They are simply so vile.
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LibertyPrime wrote:

"I'm not necessarily an advocate of "woke" storytelling, but would it kill the writers to provide a healthy romantic relationship for their lead character that's based on mutual respect and kindness from the get go?"

*****

Nope. Nope. Nope! That would be breaking another unwritten cardinal rule of the business. Can't have any of that! ;)

Fact is; this is Hollywood and the writers' room(s) of many a TV show, movie, animated feature and the like cannot do this. To do so would imply that they're actually in tune with the "real" world and that's just not possible. Their bread and butter, so to speak, is creating pure, unattainable fantasy. And, given we're dealing with a superhero TV show, and a wonky Berlantiverse one at that, actually portraying a real-life relationship as it is or should be is beyond the realm of their herd-mentality. Heads would explode! Heck, they have enough of a difficult time of creating a cohesive, plausible storyline on any type of continuous basis, don't try to add this element to the mix. :o :o :o

To quote a famous Star Trek engineer: "Captain, I cannae push tha engines any haaarder! They're gonnae bloh!"
"Contemporary" - Rick Estrin & The Nightcats, from the CD/Download Contemporary. (2019)
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