Intersting Interview with Rahul Kohli (Jack Spheer)

I need to support my girl Kelly here. Also, some great points there, squishpanda.

My personal experience with a ship fandom was being "mob" attacked by a section of Sanver fans for simply stating I loved Alex and Winn in scenes together. Holy hale... You'd thunk I had sinned against all sins...the vitriol spewed at me. Saw dozens of people who quoted me saying foul foul things to me--bringing in their horde to also attack me.

But NOTHING compares to the foul, vile, sexual memes and comments I've seen almost daily coming from Supercorp peeps. And the attacks I've seen made on the writers, actors, Karmel etc etc... just divisive, toxic spew. It's really tainted the light hearted fun of the SUPERGIRL fandom of last year.

Again, this is coming from personal experience. I gave up following the hashtag Supergirl, which is sad. Last year, for those of us who were actual fans back then, to see #Supergirl trending was a real treat. We'd all get together and were almost gleeful about the cast and series getting recognition. We were all simply just Supergirl fans celebrating and chatting it all up.

Now? I stay here and only here--knowing Eric and Kelsey run a tight ship, as well as, knowing this forum overall is populated by a mature, well spoken fanbase. We disagree from time-to-time. But, remain united as Supergirl fans first and foremost. Being respectful to one another here is of utmost importance to the forum "regulars." Sadly, I don't see the same respect being given to one another "out there." Rather than celebrating Supergirl with each other, they fight about "ships." Just sad.

Please allow me to chime in and give my thoughts on this.

At least in my personal experience on social media, the bad behavior of Supercorps FAR outweigh those of Karamels. There's no denying that there are bad eggs in both fandoms but Karamels tend to police themselves better and swiftly call out any wrongdoers whereas Supercorps appear to disregard (dare I say even condone) such behavior - and therein lies the difference.

I agree with Kelly in that Karamel vitriol is aimed towards Supercorp, and Supercorp alone (Karamels are always on the defensive because Supercorps constantly attack Mon-El). But I have seen so many instances of Supercorps going after cast/crew and their families. Again, just my experience. It's easy for Karamels to lord their ship over non-canons (and I believe they have a better footing to stand on - their ship IS canon), but they spread positivity for the most part and only push back when attacked (which is to be expected).

"As for the slavery bit, does that mean people who owned slaves in the past get a free pass because, as you said, they "came from a society where that was ok"? So as long as society accepts something that makes it ok?"

Hindsight is always preferential when dealing with touchy subjects like this. According to that logic,
everyone who owned slaves before the Emancipation should be condemned (including our Founding Fathers and Presidents). All our ancestors who had slaves when it was widely practiced should not be accorded any respect whatsoever regardless of their contributions to modern society. Notice how condescending that sounds?

(Along the same vein, given that Mon-El detractors always bring up the slaveowner issue, where's the outcry towards M'gann? She participated in GENOCIDE and should not be allowed redemption, correct? Might as well throw in Kara into the lot as well, since we should judge everybody by the sins of their fathers.)

But I digress. Fact is, Supercorp was specifically called out by a widely-respected actor for being toxic, racist, nasty, hooligans. Rahul was a guest star for only 1 episode and was harassed enough to have formed this opinion. Imagine what the cast and crew must think of Supercorp at this point. They needs to stamp out the toxicity within their ranks if they want public perception to change because it is reflecting poorly on the whole Supergirl fandom. Just imagine some bad egg turn up at SDCC spewing hate and being called out on an even bigger public stage... how embarrassing.

Draft, I've stated multiple times that I'm sharing from my own experience, YMMV. It's all we can do really since it's otherwise impossible to know everything that goes on in a TV fandom. It's rather unfortunate that you've had run-ins with Karamels and Sanvers (a whole 'nother kettle I'm not going into) but most of my experiences with KM's have been pleasant/civil (the same can't be said for SC's). I think Karamels might be overzealous at times but I seldom see them being downright mean and nasty to cast/crew (again, same can't be said for Supercorps). I don't see any reason why Karamels would instigate any attacks. Their ship is already canon so what's there to complain about?

I'm not a shipper and would just as easily have been fine with Kara being alone but I also ACCEPT what is canon, something Supercorps have difficulty dealing with. I really ship Kara being happy so whatever form that takes, I'm game.

Again, not saying there are no bad elements in KM but definitely not to the extreme of SC (in my experience) so I still stand by my assertion that Karamels are either (1) better behaved themselves or (2) better at policing their ranks for misbehavior. Again, in my opinion, there's no cause for bad behavior on their part - their ship is already canon. Perhaps Rschick can back me up on this by digging up pro-SuperCorp/Sanvers tumbr posts showing Karamel toxicity (or lack thereof).

Supercorps, on the other hand, are mostly Katie fans first and foremost and they want her to have the best ship/storyline/etc. I believe that some are not even Supergirl fans at all. So they have no qualms pushing their agenda since once Katie gets another project, they just jump on that bandwagon and the cycle continues.

"I'm not judging any character on the sins of their fathers, instead I'm judging characters based on the character itself. The way I see it, most characters are trying to make up for the sins of their past/sins of their family except for Mon-El."

And yet, the Mon-El character himself did not own slaves; his family did. He wasn't the ruler of Daxam but rather was within the purview of his parents. And you don't perceive the relevance? We must be watching wildly different shows if you don't see his redemption arc. To me, his was the most fleshed out of all the characters in S2. But let's agree to disagree.

As it stands, Supercorp was the one called out, the problem child. If their misbehavior goes unchecked, they will be stinking up the entire fandom for the rest of us, if not already. Your faith in them behaving at SDCC is commendable but if Rschick's tumblr post is anything to go by, there are already plans underway to "raise hell", whatever that means. We already know what happened at the S2 Finale premiere (as detailed by one of the Supercorps, no less). The Supergirl writers, rightfully so, only acknowledge canon ships and I highly doubt that it will change. Unfortunately, knowing their agenda is futile will probably not stop Supercorp from creating a volatile environment at SDCC. I hope I'm dead wrong on this. We shall see.

Well,

Since we are talking about toxicity in the net; just a couple of thoughts. A bit philosophical.
About 10 years back, in college, I studied about Network Society by Jan van Dijk; I think there is also a book by Manuel Castells. I have not read the books (heh, sorry) but some of the ideas included how folks' behaviour on the net would change because they couldn't be identified. So, folks will have two separate personas. One on the net and one on the real social network. And of course, how this would give people the freedom to do things that they would not otherwise do in their immediate physical surroundings.

I see a lot of that in twitter: not just in show fandoms, but in politics; in completely non-controversial stuff like, I don't know, garbage cleaning or assault (assault is bad; but I don't think it's controversial).

It's sad; and also one of the reasons why I typically use the same rhetoric wherever I am (tumblr, Superherohype or here so that people know my stand); so that I am not tempted by anonymity to descent to cruelty (which by the way I am not, but just in case, I am angry or something ). Though, owing to my cousin's and sister's insistence, I stopped using my real name in my blogs.

I of course don't think everyone who use the net is like that. But then, everyone is not violent either. It is always the few that gets heard/seen/listened to. Because the others are polite.

And from what I have seen in tumblr and even in moderated sites it is from every corner of the fandom. (For example, Kara is my favorite character, and I have seen negative comments about Kara from all the shippers: karamel, SC and Sanvers). Even karolsen (though they tend to be minimal ).

On SC themselves:
I believe that minority groups, be it gay folks or women or people of colour, would react differently to how majority groups act because they believe that they need to speak up for the powers that be to listen; to effect change, they need to be vocal.

The questions you mention RSChick are a result of that. People (some of them) think they should speak up for LGBT/POC/Women with the show runners themselves. Show them the error of their ways so to speak. And to be honest, seeing how much Hollywood has dragged their feet with minority representation, I don't blame them. Well, not entirely. Their methods and how they go about it yes. I don't like them.

I'd prefer if they used positive critiquing instead of emotional outbursts or using accusatory tones. Because I believe even showrunners and writers have had a difficult ladder of hard work to climb to reach where they are. And there may be reasons behind their thinking that we don't know about. In any case, effecting changes on the scale that folks would like is not easy. And show runners for whatever reason do not go with one style or theme to hurt anyone.

I am not entirely sure why actors are involved in that set up anyways because they have limited power.

Just to be clear: I don't blame folks for critiquing the show if they think it is going wrong. But, I in no way and in no form condone or like ganging up on folks who have a different opinion from you regarding the show; or throwing negativity or vitriol towards them. (That sounds like I am royalty. That is not my intention. I am nobody. But, I just wanted to be clear to the folks here.)

Okay, I am done with my essay-shaped tupenny. It's more a pound, I guess.

What makes this even sadder is that a lot of the negativity surrounding his 'arrival' wasn't about him personally, but rather his character's relationship to Lena Luthor. The 'backlash' wasn't about Jack Spheer interfering with the idea of SuperCorp (especially since it was known he would only be around for 1 ep) but rather it was about him being used as a big 'no homo' in regards to Lena.

Which goes to show you how a bunch of crazed SJW extreme snowflakes can RUIN things. I think Kelly can somehow relate to this given all the problems she has seen on social media, and for that matter myself as well. I don't even follow the #Supergirl on Twitter.

I am on twitter, I will say this is a stark difference between KM fans and SC fans. I have friends over on twitter from each ship, but I find the nastiness tends to come from the SC side

https://twitter.com/karadadvers/status/881108377371324416

you dont see KM fans posting stuff like this. SC fans are actually asking each other to ambush and trap cast/producers into making them feel bad about working on the show at cons.

#Karamel vitriol is towards #Supercorp, not actors, not their families, not a random person that will be doing the panel that happened to have been the interviewer from ET that was part of the "Duets" episode and would of course bring up Kara and Mon-el's relationship, it was a part of the episode.

That is FAR different from what I have seen from #Supercorp fans on Twitter and Tumblr, FAR DIFFERENT....and to equate them in any way is ridiculous.

I despise the entire issue of "ships" I think they tear apart fan bases and are full of people that truly need to get a grip on reality.

But, in comparing these two particular "ships"....one is at least actually happening on the show, whereas the other is never going to happen so why spend so much time thinking, arguing, and spending time berating these people that put their hearts and souls into this series.

IMO, and this is just my IMO...people can agree with it or not, but this is how I look at it.

#Karamel -- annoying...
#Supercorp -- disrespectful to people that actually have had to endure abuse from a boyfriend, spouse, etc, and it drives me nuts when people equate this with anything people who have actually been abused have gone through. Absolutely nothing from this show has come even close to showing abuse in a relationship and it utterly ridiculous to think otherwise. As far as the slavery bit, that is just as ridiculous....its a show about a guy who came from a society where that was ok, not knowing any better, and changed....as far as the abuse cracks.... Having done my internship for my Sociology minor in college at a Women's cottage for abused spouses, girlfriends, etc.....I know what it looks like and this isn't it.....unbelievable ridiculous, emo driven farce that has grown into as the video states, a toxic, ridiculous wave of anger and rudeness. Though the two ships are a problem, to equate them in any way is unsubstantiated melarkey.

I know some here are involved with #Supercorp, that's fine you've been pretty respectful from what I've seen...as far as Twitter, I simply mute everyone that has either of the ships in their name, bio, etc....and it has made my time on Twitter much better. But it doesn't change the fact that the fandom as a whole gets judged because of these two ships, and i really wish both would go away. Again, my opinion, and if it offends anyone. Well....the true fandom of this show has been offended enough by both.

This will be the last I speak on it here, I don't want posts to be deleted or be banned...hopefully this post will be allowed to stay up because it simply gives my opinion.

So far this has been a rather healthy discussion, so lets try and keep it in that lane.

Can we agree that all of ships have some bad fans with in them? can we also agree that all of the ships also have some respectful fans among them? If we can agree on those 2 things, can we perhaps instead of the fan base being split among ships, maybe we all simply need to start calling out bad fans asking them to keep it respectful and not start stuff? How I define a bad fan, someone that is disrespectful to the cast, other fans or the show in general.

1 persons fun is anothers hell. It is completely ok to have a difference of opinion, its ok to agree to disagree. Its is very respectful to also allow people of a difference of opinion there moments to celebrate their favorites.

I dont understand the need to sully the other; sure it might score you a few 'internet cool points', but what about the person you just disparaged? how do they feel? or do their feelings not matter? If you find your opinions in a schism dont engage in a 'last person to post win bout'; simply try and steer the conversation to something more palatable for everyone involved. Is there simply no way for everyone to have fun together?

I would simply like to see a little more civility from all fans, diffusing arguments and getting people to calm down. if someone simply wont calm down, send them to read this

The mere fact that Rahul saw so much ugliness because he was cast as a character's ex reveals the real reason behind the hatred. Sending hate towards an actor and acting like a hooligan about a character who hasn't even uttered a word cannot be connected with speaking up for Kara.

I agree with what Kelly and others with similar sentiments as it's exactly what I've observed.

"His mother literally used the words "your servants" to him. Whether we like it or not, he owned slaves."

If we're nitpicking terminology, "your servants" could very well be referring to attendants assigned to him as part of the royal family. And since when are "servants" slaves? Butlers and drivers (for the affluent) are "servants" but you'd get (probably more than) an earful from them if you called them "slaves".

Again, let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Start a separate thread/dialogue if you wish and I'm sure others more eloquent than me can continue your discussion. I only joined this thread to throw in my 2 cents about Rahul responding to the toxic Supercorp ship, not to try to convince anyone to accept the Mon-El storyline, which you've made clear you have an issue with.

Wow! Okay... The experience overshadowed his working with Supergirl?

Well, that is sad!


I hope the fans take a step back this season... And not use aphorisms of morality (which you really cannot judge from twitter or from a show or even from a brief interaction) to beat down people.

In other notes: Is he British? Or Australian?

Okay.. Google says British.

It's such a pity that his experience with the fandom wasn't initially a good one. He got so much love and support from the fans both before and after his ep, but to hear that the negativity he received from some has overshadowed the good truly makes me sad for him.

What makes this even sadder is that a lot of the negativity surrounding his 'arrival' wasn't about him personally, but rather his character's relationship to Lena Luthor. The 'backlash' wasn't about Jack Spheer interfering with the idea of SuperCorp (especially since it was known he would only be around for 1 ep) but rather it was about him being used as a big 'no homo' in regards to Lena. The fact that he felt the negativity on a personal level is upsetting to me.

But I'm a firm believer in not judging a group based on the actions of a few. Lots of large fandoms have some form of toxicity to them, that's nothing new. I find that SCs tend to form a mob mentality in terms of opinions and actions while KMs focus more on blindly obsessing over the actor/character. Both fandoms are extremely vocal and that in itself just adds fuel to the flames.

He isn't the only one, Dean Cain, Melissa herself, her sister, the showrunners on their Saturn win, and most recently Leanne Aguilera who is hosting the panel for Supergirl and Riverdale...

if it were one time, one person, one incident, it wouldn't be a big deal....but its not.

The entire fandom is being judged over all of this, and it is ridiculous.

The Karamel shippers do not help the situation one bit by constantly arguing with #Supercorp shippers anywhere and anytime they can.

The entire fandom is being judged over all of this, and it is ridiculous.

And it sort of degrades those of us who are fans who don't take part in the...chicanery if I can put a word to it, Kelly

The Karamel shippers do not help the situation one bit by constantly arguing with #Supercorp shippers anywhere and anytime they can.

Well I support both Karamel and Supercorp, but am not rooting for one over the other and losing my mind over this. Sometimes social media can lead to total mental instability.

I think we can all agree that 'shipping' fandoms are by far the worst parts of an overall fandom. And in no way do the views and actions of karamel, supercorp or sanvers reflect upon the true Supergirl fandom.

here is what we as a supergirl fandom has done in recent months

https://411supergirl.tumblr.com/post/162609397251/winner-of-the-worst-fandom-award

we really should be ashamed of ourselves. We all need to do better guys. I would hate to think what supergirl would think of us.

Yeah that's just gross behavior. This kind of stuff needs to be stopped but I fear it never will

And what makes it worse is that's not even half of what's been going on. If I'm not mistaken, that looks to be mostly supercorp and sanvers fans which is understandable as that is a pro-karamel blog.

here is what we as a supergirl fandom has done in recent months

https://411supergirl.tumblr.com/post/162609397251/winner-of-the-worst-fandom-award

we really should be ashamed of ourselves. We all need to do better guys. I would hate to think what supergirl would think of us.

My personal experience with a ship fandom was being "mob" attacked by a section of Sanver fans for simply stating I loved Alex and Winn in scenes together. Holy hale... You'd thunk I had sinned against all sins...the vitriol spewed at me. Saw dozens of people who quoted me saying foul foul things to me--bringing in their horde to also attack me.

Oh gosh yes I've had some nasty experiences with some of the sanvers fans. I was upset (rightfully so I think) over the storyline about Maggie cheating. And they all came down on me like the wrath of God. It completely caught me off guard as I'm quite used to twitter spats with sc and km. But this group was on a whole other level of twitter attack.

"Winner of the Worst Fandom Award?

I’ve been keeping track of all the crap things that happens in the Supergirl fandom and with Rahul’s comment, it seems like a good time to review some highlights of what has happened so far."

Ew!! See...that angers me because it's NOT the SUPERGIRL fandom. It's shipper fandoms. Big difference. (refer back to my initial comment )

Yeah that's just gross behavior. This kind of stuff needs to be stopped but I fear it never will

And what makes it worse is that's not even half of what's been going on. If I'm not mistaken, that looks to be mostly supercorp and sanvers fans which is understandable as that is a pro-karamel blog.

here is what we as a supergirl fandom has done in recent months

https://411supergirl.tumblr.com/post/162609397251/winner-of-the-worst-fandom-award

we really should be ashamed of ourselves. We all need to do better guys. I would hate to think what supergirl would think of us.

I want to be clear, I am not a shipper at all. I am a fan of the show because of the character supergirl and comic book story lines. I was hoping to raise some awareness as to how we as fans are being represented by a very vocal minority. the actors, crew etc that are being attacked arent asking what ship the person is a part of, they are lumping us all together; fair or not.

I am sorry if you are or anyone has felt attacked or biased against in this thread., not my intention at all.