Crisis on Earth X Part 2/3/4 Discussion and Review

Should Eobard have lived? I admire Barry but it might be time to end that guy

Should Eobard have lived? I admire Barry but it might be time to end that guy

Well he was a great villain and with Dark arrow and Overgirl they were fantastic, but i don't even understand how he still alive, so for killing him now it's just above my comprehension on the how doing it.

I enjoyed this year's crossover more than last year. Last year's was good - this was just better. It was better but not perfect.
Just random points as I think of them ...
random likes first
a. more Kara.this year than last year's crossover.
b. the fight scene at the end - everyone was involved
c. overall storyline was good - everyone can hate Nazis from an evil earth-x
d. the concept of evil dopplegangers was done well
e. truly loved the easter eggs and nods to pop culture things - the best was "General would care to step outside"... that was just awesome
f. the dopplegangers of the non-heroes like Winn and Lance was a good twist

random dislikes
a. the writers can't help themselves being political "make America aryan again" - boo!
no need to go there. How about just a line like "the Nazis are trying to bring their ways here" would have conveyed the same idea without the biased writing
b. did not like the death of Stein acting...seemed forced with no Chemistry -like he had to cry
c. Palmer is portrayed too often as a goof(but that's in all shows in the Arrowverse)
d. if Barry was not going to kill Eobard - he should have "damaged" him badly by like destroying his femur so he couldn't run anymore
e. "Leo" was not nearly as good/entertaining as "Snart" from Legends/Flash (not being any kind of phobic here people) the acting/portrayal was different/weaker in my opinion. The costume was a great throwback but the lines and portrayal were off (i.e. the "due process" reference ... people are getting shot/bombed left and right and t he is worried about Mick with his fire?)
f. Kara should dominate the fight scenes. She could take out all of the Nazis by herself.
g. too much relationship nonsense I think the Oliver/Felicity relationship stuff was too forced. Did not want them getting married at the end. Also the Snart/Ray relationship was not necessary either(again not being phobic here people). The whole event revolved around Barry/Iris. That was perfect but is was also enough. Pretty much after Joe's toast at the reception the soap opera stuff should have stopped - for everybody including Oliver/Felicty, Leo/Ray, - everybody. Didn't care for DarkArcher/Overgirl pairing either but I suppose that was necessary for the invasion angle.

Should Eobard have lived? I admire Barry but it might be time to end that guy

This is the fourth season of Flash and so far Eobard has shown up at least once each season, and continually gets mentioned on the show, as well as being the main bad guy during one season of legends. He's basically Barry's oldest foe and honestly I think the guy is almost impossible to fully get rid of at this point.

If there is a fifth season of the Flash no doubt Eobard will show up again.

article in forbes about crossovers

I have to say congratulations to all the staff, directors and actors because the scenes with the doppelgangers are smooth, i don't see the trick and it's good

I liked the crossover. I liked Kara telling the Thawn guy to take her rather than hurt felicity (though, I didn't understand his logic; if you hurt Felicity, how would you get the encryption removed?)

But, I felt there was less of Kara Danvers overall. There was Alex in the part III, but then her interactions were limited to Sarah. I'd have liked Alex to interact with Oliver and Barry a bit more...

And Kara to have interacted with everyone else (especially Oliver, but also more Barry, Iris). She just had one tiny scene with Barry, and that weird no Mon El scene at the parlour (?) but otherwise, everybody else seemed to have better interactions, better moments and better place in the universe.

Also.. what was Kara feeling the entire time? Was she worried about Alex on Earth X? Was she worried about Earth 38 and if she would die and never get to go back home? Does she even try to rescue Alex or herself or Earth 1? None of that.

I don't know.. It didn't feel like a Supergirl episode; while it did feel like there was a lot of Flash and Arrow.. And even Legends (though may be not enough there for Legends either).

Eh.

After all the people he killed and all the bad he did, I still don't understand why Barry let Thawne go. He should have at least locked him up. If he later escaped due to DeVoe's plan or somehow on his own that's fine, but any crimes he commits from now on are all on Barry. Not to mention that Thawne could easily just speed in and kill everyone in a split second if he wanted to.

After all the people he killed and all the bad he did, I still don't understand why Barry let Thawne go. He should have at least locked him up. If he later escaped due to DeVoe's plan or somehow on his own that's fine, but any crimes he commits from now on are all on Barry. Not to mention that Thawne could easily just speed in and kill everyone in a split second if he wanted to.

Been thinking about it.....I think the only two choices Barry had right then was to either kill him or let him go. There was no way Eobard was going to go with him anywhere, especially not allow himself to be detained in some cell. With that said, Barry should have killed him because, as you said, any crime he commits from here on out...its partially on Barry's head.

Just saw the entire 4 part crossover. Way better than last year. Haven't the chance to go thru the tread yet, but a lingering question is, if Overgirl went kaboom, how is she in the CW seed series. Melissa is supposed to be voicing her. I really liked the actor who played ray, and Snart was hilarious. Overall impression is that I really liked the crossover event, but fell short of loving it. Stephen Amell was really a standout in this crossover, as was Melissa's Overgirl. W. Mericle wasn't wrong when she said that the crossover was really Oliver's story.

Seem to me thought that they still haven't really solved the Kara/Supergirl problem. Both Overgirl and Kara were essentially taken out of the game for most of it, although I am happy that they gave her the big save at the end, flying Overgirl out to space in a spectacular explosion. Barry had a similar problem. These 2 are never really going to be allowed to use their potential in these epic crossovers.

Other thing is, I want an Arrow/Supergirl crossover that is on a more grounded level, and then I'd like a Flash/Supergirl crossover that allows Barry and Kara to use their full strength and skills without any watering down. That can only happen if they are taken out of their familiar environment and in a truly hostile space. Maybe a trip where they are stranded in time and location with metahumans galore. Maybe a forgotten Metahuman Colony?!?

Next big crossover, I hope they do in on Earth 38. I need to see the SG cast involved right along Supergirl. Especially MM.

Another rambling thought. I LOVED General Schott. Loved seeing Winn not giving an inch and prioritizing his people first and foremost. I would have been so annoyed had he given into Alex. What can I say, just loved seeing Winn like this.

Wished they hadn't left out Kara for the double wedding tho, that she was there to witness it.

Man, I'm still reeling over Stephen's Dark Archer. He did such a great job.

Highlights for me were
Kara singing off course
The Overgirl Meltdown in Space
The Sonic Clap was awesome
Barry and Ray chasing down Red Tornado
GA kicking butt with his arrow while going through a breach
Anytime Melissa or Stephen was on screen minus the Shipping parts.

And fav tongue in cheek moment.

"General, would you care to step outside." along with that pose. That was a treasure.

Has anyone here watched and all caught up with the Man in the High Castle? Since it is a story about Multiverses, I like to think Earth-X is its actual future

I watch that show and can't wait for the next season. I binged it every season without a break. It's a fascinating look at 'what if' and then thank the heavens that the Allies won. The acting is simply superb and I am often taken aback by the quiet agony of the characters. Especially Frank.

I actually thought this crossover was an Arrowverse/Man from High Castle crossover when I first saw the promos.

REVIEW…Crisis on Earth X Part 3/4

ACTING…5.0
ADVENTURE…4.5
WRITING…4.0
EFFECTS…5.0

POLITCAL PENALTY…none

BONUS…(1.0) Two Superman mentions…Kara to Thawne and the Superman II moment. Anytime Christopher Reeve gets a shout out…IT’S WORTH IT.

The new Red Tornado is MUCH improved, but still a villain (0.5)

SCORE…20/20

Supergirl is now prisoner of Over Girl (both played by Melissa Benoist in her biggest acting stretch to date) and the mad Eobard Thawne, who is looking to do the most extreme heart transplant in taking Supergirl’s pure heart and transferring it to the evil Nazi Over Girl so as to save her sorry life.

Parts three and four are from The Flash and Legends of Tomorrow respectively

And it starts on the dreaded Earth-X where our heroes are POW’s in essence. It is there we are introduced to The Ray (Russell Tovey), a gay superhero who happens to be from Earth-1 originally. His crime, like that of the Nazis or radical Islamists…being gay.

The collars they are wearing destroy any powers of those like The Flash

Back on Earth-1, Cisco awakens in the containment unit along with Harry, Caitlyn, Black Canary and others. In the lab, Kara awakes under a red sun lamp rendering her powerless. Thawne meanwhile is about to go Dr. Frankenstein on Kara.

But looking on are Iris and Felicity. It may be up to the two of them!

On Earth-X, the prisoners are being rounded up to meet more of these Nazis in a scene straight out of a leftist Gestapo. The leader…an evil Quentin Lance who wants them all rounded up to face death…the same as Al-Qaeda these days. Oliver, Sara and Alex send signals and try to escape, but the collars send an electric shock. The evil Quentin then places a mask on Oliver. The Nazis are about ready to fire…when suddenly, Captain Cold appears out of nowhere…correction…CITIZEN Cold, the Earth-X good guy doppelganger of Snart.

Next thing you know…it’s a war! Our heroes end up in a ditch. But then The Ray explodes into action. Back on Earth-1…the evil Supergirl takes pride in her leftist propaganda and she reads Kara the riot act…AND SHE GOES FALLING…and Over Girl goes way evil on Supergirl

Iris and Felicity enter the containment…but get caught. Then Iris knocks our the guard. But the chambers can’t be open. So Felicity sends an SOS to the Legends

In a visit to Earth-X Star City, we are taken to the Dark Arrow Lair where the freed heroes meet including Captain Cold’s good guy counterpart Citizen Cold played with cynicism and wit by Wentworth Miller.

Ray explains how the now freed team of Green Arrow, White Canary, Alex Danvers, Firestorm and the Flash got to Earth-X…via a larger and more stable temporal breach. The heroes’ goal is to get to the breach. One problem…the Nazis. But then who shows up but…WIN SCHOTT?!

Aside from Citizen Cold there is an Earth-X version of Winn (Jeremy Jordan). Don’t worry, he’s still a good guy, but has a little bit more attitude, more moxie, more guts, more…well you know. And he promises to blow all the Nazi tech the hell up. Uh…Winn wait till they leave, then do it, ‘kay? And Winn is a Freedom Fighter General! He and Alex have a talk and Winn talks about the doomsday device which could kill all people. Alex pleads with the General about Supergirl. But, Winn says his people are better than Earth-1…WHAT!

Later Firestorm is chatting about the end of the team and their relationship. Alex meanwhile goes searching for a weapon. Sara sees her and tells her about Supergirl. Alex blames herself for not helping Kara and is scared of losing her sister. Sara knows that feeling, but also a feeling of love lost…for Nyssa Al Ghul at one point.

Cold and Ray argue about his family and life on Earth-1. It turns out Citizen Cold and Ray…are lovers. The two, after an off camera talk to General Schott, get permission to help out our heroes in one of the two major wars coming up, including the one to save Kara and the prisoners back on Earth-1. The planning takes place…and quick as a wink, Barry scales the place.

General Schott gives Ray and company only one hour for their mission.

At STAR Labs…Kara’s skin has been pierced…and it’s time for the operation. She calls for her cousin who once fought Thawne. But just as things are getting going Felicity hacks the power grid and knocks out the power. But Thawne gets ideas and proceeds to go after Felcity and Iris, who proceed to knock out two Nazis. But their thoughts at freedom are stopped BY METALLO, who shoots Kara with more Kryptonite.

On Earth-X, Cold and Ollie disguised as the evil Dark Arrow, get through. Then Quentin and Ollie talk about the events. But then the final attack is activated, including a Nazi Waverunner going to Earth-1. Back on X, Ollie’s plans go bust as evil Quentin uncovers the plot…He brings in…an Earth-X Felicity?

But then General Schott abandons the plan after it’s discovered any chance to breach the gate, other than getting to a platform has gone up in smoke. And then the Nazis…issue a tornado warning…Red Tornado that is. Last time he was around he had a major malfunction and went crazy, making Kara unleash her solar flare in Season 1 SG Episode 6 Red Faced.

At STAR Labs Thawne threatens to kill Felicity, but Kara offers to sacrifice herself. Fel gives the code to reactivate the power grid. On Earth-X, Ollie, Barry, Snart and Ray are readying plans. Then Team Arrow goes to work as Flash and Ray take on Red Tornado. Firestorm then separate and plan to turn things on at the camp

But then Red Tornado beats the Flash and Ray sending him to the base, where Team Arrow But then, Martin is shot and killed, which takes us into Legends of Tomorrow and hopefully we see them and the REAL Waverider.

But then as Stein is hit one more time, he opened the bridge. Flash and Ray are still stuck with Red Tornado. They try another double light strike.. which works. Then Martin and Jax for maybe the last time become Firestorm…the gang then heads for Earth-1 and a major showdown with the Nazis and The Evil Three

But in opening the bridge, the Nazis hit Earth-1. At STAR Labs, Kara is about to be sliced open by Thawne. But, then The Atom stops him. The Legends cavalry has arrived. But…it looks like Overgirl may be doomed.

Felicity mentions the Holocaust and she is ready to die, but Grreen Arrow arrives and is about to kill X-Kara. Meanwhile the gang take out Metallo. Then Felicity is saved by The Flash who stops Dark Ollie from killing Felicity. Ollie and Fel share a kiss. Looks like Olicity might be joining WestAllen

Aboard the Wave Rider, Firestorm splits to have Gideon try and save them. Barry and Iris meet up aboard the Love Ship. Alex and Kara reunite and Captain Cold and Heat Wave have a talk! Caitlyn and Ray Palmer talk about the possible death of Martin and maybe even Jax.

Meanwhile, Curtis is geeking out aboard the Waverider. Zari and Mari talk to Curtis and Ray about the Nazi ship. Overgirl happens to be the DOOMSDAY DEVICE. If she blows, everything else does.

Back in med bay, Stein and Jefferson are sharing one final talk together. Martin wants Jefferson to drink Cisco’s formula. Stein is willing to die for Jefferson. Left with no other choice, Jax takes the vial and gives it to Stein, who then drinks it. Thank you Martin Stein…your eternal reward awaits. (Victor Garber announced he was leaving the show to go back to Broadway.) I must admit I was crying over this scene.

Sara arrives to see the sad scene. She then goes to Martin and gives him one last kiss on the head. Iris tells Barry the sad news. Vibe and Frost get emotional as does Ray Palmer and the other legends. Back on Earth-1, Jacks tells Martin’s wife and daughter the awful news.

Meanwhile final plans are in order for war. On board the X-Rider, Overgirl is about to blow up. Oliver then wants to make one final deal. He calls for a truce with one incentive…Supergirl who has returned to normal assuming she got some yellow sun in exchange for their Freedom. But Green Arrow says no…he will not abandon his friends.

This now sets up the war to end all wars. One that will decide the fate of everyone. And it’s…for the professor.

As Earth-X invades Central City killing all in their path…they meet up with…The Ultimate Justice League.

Highlights: Cisco and Wells pilot the Waverider…geek out. The whole gang then proceeds to take out Earth-X. One of the great lines from this film was a shoutout to Christopher Reeve from Superman II when she said “General, would you care to step outside?”

And to wrap it up, as Supergirl is falling Commander Steel saves our Kara. It would take a man of steel to save the Girl of Steel. Snart decides to stay on Earth-1. Meanwhile there is a funeral for Martin Stein. Delivering an emotional speech was Jacks, who meets little Ronnie for the first time. One by one the team places dirt on top of Martin’s tomb in the saddest scene ever in the Arrowverse. Then the Legends and Kara and Alex say good-bye leaving Barry and Iris and Oliver and Felicity.

Left with no other choice, Oliver suggests Diggle do the ceremony. Barry humorously gets Oliver’s best friend, bodyguard and confidant. Then the much anticipated albeit at the last second double wedding took place. The two best known “ships” in the Arrowverse, WestAllen and Olicity tie the knot in comic book fashion, but nonetheless it happens.

And with that…CRISIS AVERTED!

Justice League is pedestrian compared to this incredible crossover. Let’s hope for another one soon. Let me say to the writers, please if another crossover happens, put the "big guy" and Martian Manhunter in it.

Seem to me thought that they still haven't really solved the Kara/Supergirl problem. Both Overgirl and Kara were essentially taken out of the game for most of it, although I am happy that they gave her the big save at the end, flying Overgirl out to space in a spectacular explosion.

Wished they hadn't left out Kara for the double wedding tho, that she was there to witness it.

I agree with you.

Another rambling thought. I LOVED General Schott. Loved seeing Winn not giving an inch and prioritizing his people first and foremost. I would have been so annoyed had he given into Alex. What can I say, just loved seeing Winn like this.

I wish he had stuck to that even when his own people came to him. What he was saying made sense and his retracting and then retracting again made him look like a person who couldn't make up his mind and who made major decisions based on momentary emotions. Not good.

The team should have snuck out.

Just realized. On Earth X, Kryptonians are now extinct with the death of Overgirl.

Just realized. On Earth X, Kryptonians are now extinct with the death of Overgirl.

Alternatively they could have Daxamed and now live in a fleet. Or, Krypton never exploded and Kara's pod was a leisure trip. Ok joke that last bit probably isn't the case. But, we technically don't know

Just realized. On Earth X, Kryptonians are now extinct with the death of Overgirl.

However, Overgirl was happily married, so the possibility that as a good -- by their standards -- Nazi (Kirche, Kuche, Kinder) she had already had children should not be overlooked.

Just realized. On Earth X, Kryptonians are now extinct with the death of Overgirl.

However, Overgirl was happily married, so the possibility that as a good -- by their standards -- Nazi (Kirche, Kuche, Kinder) she had already had children should not be overlooked.

Yeah your right I didnt think of that. There was a high chance they already had kids.

I liked the crossover I liked the fact that it was one cohesive story, as opposed to last year where it was fragmented. I liked that Alex and Sara hooked up especially since they used it as an opportunity for character growth rather than just a gag. Though I did think that having Nazis as the bad guys was unnecessary (and a bit lazy), they can have an evil earth without invoking the Nazis. (Though I suppose that would require more exposition that would explain who they are, why they need to be stopped, and why they can't be reasoned with. Also, with Nazis you don't really have to give people a reason to hate/ root against them as that's the default position for all non-horrible people.)
But if they are going to go there... Am I the only one who thought it was weird that nobody had a German accent?, not even the Nazis? Even the Fuhrer has an American accent? They have German writing over the gates of the concentration camp, but somehow everyone has an American accent? I'm not saying that they should have been speaking German because, who wants to have to read subtitles?, but they could have used German accents and sprinkled in a few well known German words like: jawohl, nein, schnell, mensch, frau, etc... for better world building.
I'm also a bit disappointed that our heroes didn't try to liberate people from the concentration camp. I know Kara would have tried to save all the people she could. Isn't that what heroes are supposed to do?, save people. It didn't even occur to them. (Oh well, maybe Cisco will create a portal generator (or 5) for General Schott and the resistance, like he did for Kara, and they can all escape to the earth of their choosing)

Just realized. On Earth X, Kryptonians are now extinct with the death of Overgirl.

Hmmm...., I wonder if Earth-X has a Reign, because if so she is likely to succeed now that Earth-X has no Kryptonian's to defend it. If any Earth deserves to be sent a world-killer it would be Earth-X.

Can someone help me here, because i don't get the "game changer" part for Arrow.
The crossover is also about affecting the heroes and the great impact is obvious for the waverider crew. I think it's a little less clear for Sara and the impact crossing path with her father doppelganger was. But the fact that she finally deals with Laurel death and somehow with her relationship with Nyssa is nice to see.
For Supergirl who was at odd with her human heart, meeting Overgirl should definitively had an impact on that.
Barry knows now that is still facing Eobard Thawne and the threat is real. Maybe he has to find a way to live with it or finding something to get rid of the reverse flash.
But really for the story arc going on on Arrow, i just don't get it ! What does it bring different for Oliver ? Wendy Mericle said it was Oliver exploring true love, but the character was already in a relationship and … well apparently married his girlfriend so what happened ?

Can someone help me here, because i don't get the "game changer" part for Arrow.
The crossover is also about affecting the heroes and the great impact is obvious for the waverider crew. I think it's a little less clear for Sara and the impact crossing path with her father doppelganger was. But the fact that she finally deals with Laurel death and somehow with her relationship with Nyssa is nice to see.
For Supergirl who was at odd with her human heart, meeting Overgirl should definitively had an impact on that.
Barry knows now that is still facing Eobard Thawne and the threat is real. Maybe he has to find a way to live with it or finding something to get rid of the reverse flash.
But really for the story arc going on on Arrow, i just don't get it ! What does it bring different for Oliver ? Wendy Mericle said it was Oliver exploring true love, but the character was already in a relationship and … well apparently married his girlfriend so what happened ?

Well Arrow is a testament to what happens when one ship over runs the whole show. As i understand it, a lot of the Arrow fans on Reddit got mad at what happened on the crossover to the point that the arrow subreddit was changed to a Punisher theme in protest.

Also another thing I think people are sleeping on is that Eobard claimed to have killed Superman in the future. So Eobard is stronger then Superman in a fight. (But not stronger then Kara as she was able to grab and throw him during the first fight)