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  1. RobertAnthony
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  4. Thursday, 14 February 2019
I posted this in the off topic section since this has more to do with politics. The people at Superman Homepage did an unscientific survey of their visitors in which they asked the question "Is the “Supergirl” TV series too political?"

In the interest of full disclosure I answered the question and find I am in the majority (57%) which said "Yes"; 22% said "No"; 12% saying they don't watch the show.

The poll was included in another episode of The "S" Files in which Steve Younis looks at if the show is too political...or too preachy for that matter. In the video, there is a clip from the Superman radio show which aired during World War II, at least when the world knew who the enemies were.

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This isn't a site to discuss politics. I've been alerted by some users that this is getting into unfriendly territory, so I am locking this thread.
You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun, Kal. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders.
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George Will, David Frum, Jennifer Rubin, David Brooks, the Bush family, the McCain family

Those aren't conservatives in my book. They are GLOBALISTS! David Brooks actually now is a leftist convert.
You want to really talk conservatives...try Jim Jordan of Ohio, Mark Meadows of NC, Louie Gohmert of Texas, Thomas Massie of KY, Justin Amash of MI at least in the house. In the senate, there's Rand Paul (KY), Ted Cruz (TX), Mike Lee (UT) in the Senate.

And if you ask me...the Children of Liberty...are more like ANTIFA or the Weather Underground. And I also do NOT want the COL linked to the likes of the Yellow Vest movement which is looking to destroy tyranny and globalism in Europe, though sadly through violence. And it's something that should be done in the states because elite billionaire politicians and political families (Bush, Clinton, McCain), the media and Hollywood are taking direct aim at American culture.

And I also would blow my stack if this show, like Homeland does, takes aim at my favorite radio talk show host Alex Jones and Infowars.

Also, all I can say is thank goodness at 9:00 I can tune into FNC's The Next Revolution with Steve HIlton and his "positive populism." Especially after the heavy hitting politics at the end of this week's episode, which I must say also showed how horrible The Patriot Act, developed after the false flag of 9/11 is.
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Political messages, if they are to be included, should complement the story, not the other way around
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I mean, spoken deeply from the progressive side of things, I don't wish anything more than an effective medium to propagate the values of universal equality. But I'm sure at least some agree here that blasting identity politics and endorsing the democrats so overtly has a counterproductive effect. And the way it's done in this show is almost childish.

Modern shows like The Walking Dead and Brooklyn 99 are all socially conscious with diverse cast and respectful examination of social issues.

But here lies the difference, you don't really see "BEHOLD!, I AM (a marginalised group), and I AM OPPRESSED!!" "BTW, TRUMP SUCKS". Villains won't go like "And now at last we meet after that fateful night. Soon all shall be....wait...gotta say this...MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN"

Case in point Rhea said a MAGA parallel. I hope to believe at least all found that very odd and out of place. Rhea has nothing to do with America and she has no ideological agenda.

Another case, Maggie's dad mentioned they put a fascist in the White House. Trump isn't the President in Supergirl. At that point it was the very progressive Olivia Marsdin.

This proves at times they are literally inserting political references for the sake of it without even thinking of the consistency of their fictional universe. The critically panned "Emoji Movie", possibly worst movie ever was blasted partially for random insertions of progressive statements that have no correlation in universe or to plot.

Done well, I love a progressive show more than anything. But it's kinda done disastrously. And it gives fuel to the far right. Videos dissing this show are quite popular on Youtube. Ask evrafter who identifies as conservative. Has Supergirl improved the image of liberal values or the reverse?

This format hasn't made more people embrace feminism etc, but certainly turned more against it.

And that's depressing.
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Another interesting discussion on the Forum! I debated whether to weigh-in any further, but finally decided I had to. Some of the comments characterize this as a liberal vs conservative issue. Under normal circumstances that may well be true, but we are not in normal circumstances. We are in extremely dangerous circumstances. Alarms are going off all around, and while it is true that many come from liberals, many also come from conservatives: George Will, David Frum, Jennifer Rubin, David Brooks, the Bush family, the McCain family, and many others. So this goes far deeper than partisanship. As an independent who has voted for Republicans and for Democrats, I can see both sides. All of them had honor. Trump doesn't know the meaning of that word. So if Supergirl decides that joining this chorus of alarm is important, I support that.

The truth will prevail about this president, as it always does. I do sincerely wish that our conservative friends would stop defending this man. You are better than this. You have been conned; it is what he has done his entire life, and you are not the first, nor is it your fault. But it is time to get off this train. That does not mean you should abandon any of your principles. It is important that you hold them up as you always have. But realize that this president is using them for expediency. He believes in nothing except himself.

Hypothetically, consider any aspect of your life: health, finances, education, career, whatever. Suppose you sought advice from a group of experts about what course to take. All but one agreed on their advice, but that one claimed that all the others were wrong and should be ignored, that only he knew the right course to follow. Whose advice would you take? Politics should be no different.
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I guess I'm not entirely correct then. At least however I don't recall the show explicitly endorsing Democrats.
Personally I prefer the Democrats to the Republicans, but I just don't believe the endorsement or attack of political parties belongs in a TV show or movie.

See the other CW shows or actually Titans. Titans is quite progressive. It does not preach.
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I have no wish to get involved with US politics. It is none of my business, particularly since more concentration on internal perspectives and becoming less of an influence externally.

But I wonder how much of the tone of the show is down to Melissa herself. I have just caught up with her Popcorn interview made at the time she was in “Beautiful”. (She seems a lot of fun!). She made it clear that her main focus was on the young girls in her audience (definitely not me!), and that she was concerned about the message given to them was about hope, compassion and empowerment.

Now I don’t know how much influence Melissa actually has in the direction the show is taking. She is such a key element in its success that I cannot believe she wouldn’t have some say, but I know nothing about how these things work!

I personally love the tone of the show. That is not to say that the story and writing are not wonky at times, and that there is not enough focus on Melissa. (That may be something to do with why I have been underwhelmed with any of the crossovers -although I did enjoy the “World’s Finest”- I would much prefer an extra Supergirl focused episode.)

Sexuality, immigration, racism, misogyny, violence etc are complex subjects that are difficult to always get right. But I applaud the show for addressing them, and in a way that has not been patronising to me at least as a non-American (I cannot speak for young girls!).
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I actually haven’t heard a Trump diss on Black Lightning which precisely summs up my problem with Supergirl. Being socially conscious is great, being partisan is cringy.
A villain in season one said he wanted to “make America great again” more than once and he said it again shortly before being shot. Here’s the scene he even says the green light kids(minority) would’ve wound up in prison or on welfare.
References
  1. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CszM4-7o_vY
Hope, Help and Compassion for all
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I actually haven’t heard a Trump diss on Black Lightning which precisely summs up my problem with Supergirl. Being socially conscious is great, being partisan is cringy.
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Wwwoooow. Been reading through this thread tonight. And all I can say about some of the comments is, "Yikes."

My thoughts? What's sad is the belief, by a few, that being against racism, being for immigration, being for the underdog, standing against authoritarian rule, etc etc are "liberal" views. I dare say that's false. They're views held by all good people--no matter political leanings or country of origin.

Yes yes yes... We've had this discussion a gazillion times in the past three+ years on this forum. But, what seems to never be understood by a few is this: those of us who complain against the politics of the show aren't stunted in growth and blind. But rather, in my opinion, there's "portraying social issues of the day" and THEN there's "politics." Too often THIS show portrays the social issues of the day THEN has a tendancy to portray said issues through a very blatant political leaning, as well as, takes jabs at those who they feel are against their beliefs. Example: you CAN be for immigration ("social issue of the day" ) and believe every word of “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free".....but Liberal "POLITICS" will say if you're for a wall you're a racist and against immigrants. While Conservative "POLITICS" will say, "We agree. We need to be compassionate. But, but even early immigrants had to go through Ellis Island," or "We love our immigrants and we know the States have much to offer, but we're against those who've come in illegally, and we need to know WHO is coming in."

So, yes... awesome... movies like Star Wars and Star Trek and Harry Potter, and early comic books etc etc...they absolutely did have social issue stories. And they were all fantastic. Supergirl has had its like moments--referencing social issues without spewing one-sided political opinions as facts.

In summary:

Legendary comic books of Superman battling Nazis = good

Supergirl episodes blatantly demonstrating a writer's belief that Pres. Trump is a Nazi = bad
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Any poll conducted on a social media site has to be viewed with a considerable amount of skepticism because the ingredients needed for the results to actually carry any weight are generally not present in the survey.

It seems like we've had quite a bit of discussion on if the show was too political and my personal opinion, take it for that, is that it would be better to distinguish between the level of politics and the presentation of the politics in the show. Because, for me, if there is ever a question regarding the political content in the episodes, it is how the content is integrated rather than how much it contains.

Don't get me started! :D

Yes, integrating ideas into the stories artfully can make a huge difference! Take Star Trek, by most accounts, a very political franchise. I consider the economic system presented by the Federation to be unrealistic and horribly misguided in real world circumstances. Yet Star Trek: The Next Generation is one of my all time favorites. Presentation matters.
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Any poll conducted on a social media site has to be viewed with a considerable amount of skepticism because the ingredients needed for the results to actually carry any weight are generally not present in the survey.

It seems like we've had quite a bit of discussion on if the show was too political and my personal opinion, take it for that, is that it would be better to distinguish between the level of politics and the presentation of the politics in the show. Because, for me, if there is ever a question regarding the political content in the episodes, it is how the content is integrated rather than how much it contains.
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Black Lightning feels a lot less preachy than SG. If that show is too political then at least they’ve done it skillfully.
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Is Supergirl too political? Maybe, maybe not. It is certainly too partisan for my taste.
Although both properly belong in the “political” sphere, I think it is important to draw a distinction between imparting values and venturing into partisan politics. By values, I mean things that can play a part in but largely transcend policy disagreements. Things like the innate dignity of the individual, tolerance for differences, cooperation, benevolence, the rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, etc.

I completely agree with Rschick that Star Wars and Harry Potter are great examples of works that communicate values. The former almost certainly sparked an anti-authoritarian streak ever since my young brain took it all in back in 1977.

So to the extent that Supergirl the character and the show values in action, e.g., standing for tolerance and against prejudice, I'm all for it. I'd rather it be done in a thoughtful, organic way, but even when it is done in a painfully inelegant, shoehorned way, it can have some worth.

Where the messages become politically partisan, however, it loses me.

Supergirl is by all appearances a Democrat. She has covered up the fact that an alien Democratic POTUS unlawfully occupied the office. When the ruse was uncovered by the bad guys, Kara’s primary concern seemed to be how unjust it was that all the good Marsen had done might be forgotten. This, to my mind, communicates another set of values altogether: placing party over principle--enacting an agenda at all costs, legality and process be damned. In short, it adds to the divisive forces that put us where we are today. And perversely, it helps sustain the environment that enabled Donald Trump's victory.

TLDR version: Normative values good; partisan politics bad. The more the show sticks to the former, the better.
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superbill and Rschick you both won the internet for me today. I was having a crappy day and your posts made me smile :) thank you both. Anyone who doesn’t want social issues in their comic based show please so your head doesn’t explode stay far away from Black Lightning that show doesn’t even use subtext.

I wasn’t into comics as a kid but I watched Star Wars and the original Star Trek with my parents who in an age appropriate way explained the subtext that otherwise might have gone over my young head. Family discussions were started and expanded as I got older. I believe these discussions helped me become a kind and empathetic person, I’m a proud Social Justice Warrior. I was an adult when Harry Potter came out so what J.K. Rowling was saying wasn’t lost on me. Remember Dobby the elf that story wasn’t saying anything at all about social issues, nope not at all.

Has the show ever missed the mark IMO yes, the gun control episode was out of context Supergirl is not the best show for that issue. What’s been done this season is IMO perfectly in context for the character and has been well done.
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@ superbill and Rschick;

Well said! Valid points and a good take on the current state of things SG. ;)
"This Land" - Gary Clark Jr., from the CD/LP/Download This Land. (2019)
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A few thoughts on this. RobertAnthony is correct in labeling the survey unscientific. The question itself is a loaded one of the type that will generate more responses in agreement than otherwise. So the numbers have no provable validity.

I agree with Rschick's analysis. Superhero shows do tend to be political in nature, and Supergirl is no exception. In my opinion they generally do it pretty well.

It has been my experience that some of the people who complain about "political slants" do so not only because they disagree with it, but also because it makes them uncomfortable by shining a light into some dark corners of the society they would prefer not to think about. I am reminded of Peter Finch's famous rant in the film "Network", where he alludes to complacent people pleading that the problems of the world not intrude into their comfortable lives of color TV and radial tires. IMO it is more productive to contemplate the validity (or lack thereof) of what is being shown rather than just complain about it being shown at all. Being challenged to think about our ideas and beliefs is never a bad thing.
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When people say they just want 'good stories' and no politics or 'SJW' issues in their entertainment-what they are saying is that when they were kids, they completely missed the subtext of every story, movie, comic book, etc they took in. These stories have always been political.

Star Trek, Star Wars, Harry Potter, Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, X-Men, Wonder Woman, on and on and on- these are Political / 'SJW' stories. And the message, if you were paying attention at all is one of inclusion, deep compassion for your fellow man, and social justice.

So if you look at say, Ms. Marvel, The Last Jedi, Black Panther, or whatever and say- "I just want stories like when I was a kid, get these politics outta my face!" The truth is- you weren't a very observant kid. And you grew into a stunted adult. You missed something vital.

Superman is a story of an immigrant coming to America, and we're all stronger by him being here. Spider-Man is about using your power to benefit everyone, not just yourself. Star Wars is anti-authoritarian, Star Trek is a socialist utopia driven by exploration and science.

Harry Potter is about racism, and the idea of 'genetic superiority', and the insane idea of being better than someone else by the virtue of your birth. These ideas are not even subtext- they're right in your damn face, if you bother to open your eyes.

If anyone ever tells you that these new stories & movies have 'forced diversity' or are pushing "Liberal Agendas"-what they are telling you is they missed everything about what made the stories they do like- great. I have no idea how to make this clearer. It just makes me sad

PS- regarding Harry Potter, I’m specifically talking about how the Death Eaters sought genetic purity and hated “mud bloods”. I know the metaphor breaks down a bit if you look at the muggles v wizards dynamic. But still- Death Eaters are Alt-right, clearly.
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Admittedly, it tends to tilt to the political/preachy side. But, it's still watchable.

Btw, before anyone tosses a left, right or centre tag at me, I'm not from the U.S., so my political affiliation/leanings have little to no bearing on the current state of American affairs. My opinions remain my own. ;)
"This Land" - Gary Clark Jr., from the CD/LP/Download This Land. (2019)
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Yes
(I’m left before I get called a Trump supporter)
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