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  1. Romulus
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  3. Supergirl General Discussion
  4. Monday, 15 July 2019
Hi,

I found this ew.com article. This is the reason for the suit change for Season 5. In the article, Melissa states that it's more "adult" and allows her to have more range of motion. Maybe yes, maybe no. The final results will be seen on screen.

In my opinion, depending on how the fans react, it might be the last season for the show. In all honesty, at this point, I wouldn't mind it if it was. It's had a good run, pushed boundaries and made its point. In my modest view, too much tinkering eventually leads to a show's collapse. This seems to be the case with this one as well.
References
  1. https://ew.com
"Contemporary" - Rick Estrin & The Nightcats, from the CD/Download Contemporary. (2019)
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I will miss the iconic red skirt. Heck, I was upset when they took the red trunks away from Superman. :(

Fact is though, it was designed with LA shoots in mind, not Vancouver.

The new suit looks fine to me. It is a step down and somewhat genericized. But it is about as good as I could reasonably expect for a radical redesign. And let's be real; the character has suffered some severe wardrobe fails over the years. This doesn't come close to the worst Supergirl look.

I remain more concerned about the writing and overall trajectory of the show than I am about the aesthetics.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Supergirl General Discussion
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@Romulus - not to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like the suit might just be the straw that broke the camel's back regarding the show for you??? My straw was broken clear back in Season 2 so, I can sympathize a bit.

I've said it before that I'm not one who has been deeply entrenched in the comic history lore of Supergirl or really any of the comics. As a child I read them, but didn't really get attached to them deeply. And since the suit change news came about, I've really tried to think about my own attachment to traditions and how I might feel if something I felt so strongly about changed in order to not try to pass judgement on someone else too quickly. The only thing I immediately came up with is when I was younger - I'm from Iowa and 6-player girl's basketball was a tradition that went back for years. And when they wanted to switch to 5 player ball during my prime high school years, I was adamant that it would be the worst thing for Iowa girl's basketball ever. It's all I ever knew and so I was completely opposed even though realistically, it meant more scholarship opportunities for Iowa girls post high school. Well, needless to say, after not switching during high school and then playing 5 player in college, I looked back and shamelessly shook my head at my earlier refusal for not wanting to change.

I know it's not the same, but sometimes change is necessary for growth and we can't always see the benefits of it while we're immersed into the thick of it all. And, you may not ever be in a position where you can look back and see how it wasn't a detriment, but hopefully it will not distract you from something that sounds as though you love.

I'm completely okay with pants, for reasons I stated on the News Page. But, like Romulus mentioned, I am not a fan of the design - both because it's too generic, but also because it's too similar to Superman's. And if it weren't for the fact that the show seems to be insistent on creating a Supergirl that is mostly just a female version of Superman in the stories, relationships and characters that they choose to use, it probably wouldn't bother me. So, yeah, that is the only thing that irks me in the least bit about the suit.

The pant-suit look is a reasonable attire - many athletes, both female and male, use a similar design to help them go faster and to be less restrictive/distracting for them during competition. So, as a tactical piece, it completely makes sense. However, they could have easily added more detail to make the suit more unique to Supergirl and still not have it be a skirt. And no, maybe it wouldn't be a suit that has ever been shown in the comics for her, but I really don't know why we couldn't expect the suit, along with the stories, to be changed to help evolve the character.

As far as the show ending well, the bar for success at the CW seems to be set at a level that is pretty easily attainable. And if poor writing and production hasn't sunk the show by now, I'm fairly certain that a suit change won't do it.
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I'm sorry, I have a hard time seeing this as not coming off as a hissy fit among the bros. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong....but that is how it is coming off, and that is why I said what I said. I have to shake my head, because I don't have an actual response to any of this. I just think there is far too much wringing of hands of this. I see it as being looked at and treated far differently than the guys changes in their suits. As a woman, that is the lens that I look through, and that is what I see. Yes there was wringing of hands with the other shows suit changes, good lord....THE STRAP, THE STRAP, but the shows continue.

And I will end with, as long as Melissa wants play this character it will be on the CW. Has nothing to do with a suit, what happened in what season. They are going to do what they believe is right and needed, and it is their right to do it. This is a creative process, not a service to us. We are not a customer with "the customer is always right" rights.....we just aren't.

Do I hope that changes in the suit are bringing in changes to the use of Supergirl on her series? You bet, and if that means a change in the suit, then BRING IT ON! This is one time I can say screw history, I want more Supergirl on her series, and if this ushers that in........COOL. Again, I apologize is I come off as blah on people's sorrow of losing the skirt. I am simply calling it as I see it.
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@ kdogg87:

You wrote:

"1) The show ends. They would probably renew it for at least a shortened 6th season, just to give closure. And I would be okay with that, because back in season 1, I predicted this show would MAYBE get 3 seasons. I never imagined 5-6.

2) The other possibility is that the producers realize that the suit has had a detrimental effect on the show, and try to backpedal for a future season. I don't imagine them going back to the original suit, but maybe they'd create a new version that goes back to the skirted look. I don't personally see this happening, because they'd be going back to the same health, safety, and comfort concerns the original suit has. BUT...I have to acknowledge that at least it's a possibility."

*****

All very valid points and good reasoning on your part. Thanks for your insight. ;)

I never said I was going to bail on the show - I'm too heavily invested in it (since I made the initial pitch to Akiva Goldsman at WB back in 2007, which they - the CBS and the Berlanti cadre - eventually used around 75% of what I suggested in the pilot) and would like it to succeed and take it to new levels of storytelling. But, with all of the changes that have occurred over the years (some have succeeded and some have flopped badly), something has to give. This redesign is simply another big, unnecessary misstep along the way.

As an aside: There is nothing stopping the PTB from giving the series closure within 5 seasons. Many shows end before they get to season 5 and still manage to have a large following after the series ends. This would allow the Berlanti-verse to focus more (resources and talents) on their newest female-led creation, Batwoman.

Like I pointed out in my reply to Kelly and Brierrose, despite high ratings (by CW standards), Arrow and the Flash have hit their collective storytelling brick walls. They may have the male viewership numbers because we're generally none-too-bright gluttons for punishment and cohesive, plausible storytelling is a distant secondary consideration to the action sequences (meaning; things that go boom is good and things that logically develop story and plot are no-no's). Truth be told, the shows have suffered from horrid writing for at least two seasons and this indicates that the Berlanti model of show making is good for at least three seasons per show but they start to stumble badly thereafter.

In fairness, this isn't a criticism or Melissa or the actors and crews since they have done a nearly-miraculous job of pulling off the next-to-impossible for four consecutive seasons, but a collective, snowball effect result of poor decisions along the chain of command that have plagued the show since Season 1. Too many cooks have definitely spoiled the broth, so to speak.

No one is denying the need for Melissa's overall well-being and happiness to be taken into account. Also, no one is disputing the fact that Vancouver certainly isn't Los Angeles weather-wise. Try pulling this type of show filming outdoors in other parts of Canada in the winter - it simply cannot be done. But, I fear that tinkering with the very iconic image of the lead character will not succeed as they are hoping. The new look (suit and hair) is a raging, flaming dumpster fire mess and she looks completely haggard, burnt out, and is going through the motions.

I'm not saying that change was not needed, just not this particular type of tinkering. What they've (the PTB, wardrobe and Melissa) ultimately done is genericise her look to fit with the current general universe of spandex-clad superheroes. Now, there's no discernible difference between her and every other hero on the market. Maybe I'll be gladly and happily proven completely wrong, but in the long run, I suspect it will come into much more prominent play as the show eventually reaches the end of its natural life cycle.

What would have made much more sense would be to freshen up the Kara Danvers look but not tinker significantly with the super suit (other than having the occasional limited use back-up suit - i.e. Lena's Kryptonite suit, etc.). However, since you can't have one without the other, an overall sacrifice was made. Also, with the CoIE storyline being front and centre this season, and the likely merging of the universes, it was inevitable. Instead of killing off the character like in the original DC comic run, they've simply decided to kill off the "look." (Which, in essence, works out OK in comics but is not particularly successful on TV screens).

Logically, what the PTB at WB (never mind the Berlanti-verse shows) should consider is to end this series and then move on with dedicated, high speed to producing the proposed live action film with a completely new take, new cast and lead, new locale and new interpretation and iteration. And, since a Supergirl film is supposedly to be in the works for 2021-2022, now would be a very, very good time to get the production rolling at warp velocity in that direction.

This show and the cast in general deserves a proper, heartfelt send-off before Melissa burns out from the excessively heavy, demanding role workload and continually colossal poor decisions by the showrunners and the CW. This will also allow her to be free from a massively burdensome project to decide to start a family if she chooses to, and move on to other things. Release her and the cast from their contractual obligations.

Now is an excellent time to do it.
"Contemporary" - Rick Estrin & The Nightcats, from the CD/Download Contemporary. (2019)
  1. more than a month ago
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@ Kelly and Brierronse:

@ Brierrose: Not disputing your points. Just saying that too much tinkering will be the show's undoing. That's all! It started with the wonky writing, dodgy science and plausibility issues, character additions and losses (although to be expected), then the suit change. What's next? What more can they snafu?

@ Kelly: Valid points. But, as seen in S4, the suit change works only if it's for a short duration (e.g. one-off super suit, anti-Kryptonite suit, etc.), it does not work well over an entire season.

As for the suit changes on other shows, that's precisely why I don't bother with them. That plus the fact that Arrow and the Flash have been unwatchable story-wise the last two seasons. Horrid writing on both. Arrow should have ended mercifully last year and the Flash, despite still being popular, is running on vapour creatively. Legends of Tomorrow is another kettle of fish I won't bother to get into here.

In all honesty, the show can end anytime the PTB deem it to be expendable - 7-year contracts or not. If it doesn't do well or some unforeseen factors come into play, they will cut their losses and move on. Like pro sports, a contract is only a document with numbers on it and money exchanging hands. Business is business - the spreadsheet and the bottom line are the law.

Although the old suit may have needed freshening up a bit, it should not have been ditched. The new suit does not make Melissa look more adult or more 21st Century - it makes her look completely generic and no different than every other spandex-clad superhero out there today. This is not a good thing. And, no, it has nothing to do with sexism or being stuck in one's one-track way of thinking - it has everything to do with iconic image and how it is projected to the viewers. Mess with that, especially with this character, and you're in troubled waters.

Melissa's comfort and well-being are certainly paramount considerations, but they can work with and around the inclement weather in Vancouver. They have the technology and access to materials and locations that would be less physically discomforting for her. What they lack is / was foresight to counteract the elements through shoot planning. This is much easier to do in Vancouver than Toronto or Montreal where inclement weather is much more severe and longer lasting.

So, please stop shaking your head and going OMG and believing that I'm taking a hissy. I'm not. What I am doing is showing very genuine concern for the choices the brass and the lead actor made regarding this switch. On one level, it's perfectly logical; but in another comic book-based vantage point (which is what the viewers are looking for), this one's a huge dud.



I gotta disagree with you. Yes, I'm sad to see the classic suit go. And I'm not personally a fan of bangs. On anyone, not just Melissa (they actually bother me more than the suit change). But their reasons for the suit change are totally valid. They can't work "around" inclement weather when they've booked time to shoot outside or on location. First off, they probably schedule those shoots well ahead of any accurate weather forecast, and trying to reschedule them would be an incredibly substantial loss in funding. I don't care if Vancouver is cheaper than L.A., booking time to shoot on location in an urban area is not cheap, and losing money just to reschedule due to weather isn't really an option. A tv show just doesn't have the budget and flexibility of a movie. That's one of the reasons why the CGI can be super questionable, at times.

Then there is the issue of production schedule. If they don't get the scenes they need shot within the allowed time for that scene in a given episode, there is no going back to get the shot, later. You either get it, or you don't. This was confirmed in an interview with Kevin Smith back when he directed his first episode. The production schedule is just too tight for that. You either get what you need on the day you have access to that location, or you don't get what you need. Period.

Not to mention that this new design probably means Melissa isn't forced to wear a corset under her costume to support her cape, now that it's the type with clasps on the shoulders. This gives her more maneuverability and range of motion.

Heck, Arrow had sleeveless arms for a single season before they transitioned back to full sleeves for warmth. I can only imagine how much worse that is for nearly bare legs with only very thin tights covering.

As for your claim that this show could end whenever...you may dislike the direction of the show in recent seasons (as have I), but the ratings were still solid, and consistently in the top 5 for CW's shows. And bottom line, networks don't cancel top performing shows. So yeah, if the show maintains anything even close to it's ranking among the CW listings, then it will at least get to season 7, which is when most lead contracts end, and presumably when Melissa's does, as well. At that point, if the show is still performing well, it really falls on her if the show will continue or not.

That's why Arrow's ending. It's still a high ranked CW show, but Stephen Amell's contract ended, and he didn't want to renew for multiple more years. So he agreed to a shortened 8th season to end the show.

The old Supergirl suit was fine, when they were shooting in L.A. Cold winters weren't exactly a concern, there. But I'm honestly surprised they kept it around for 3 years in Vancouver.

The simple matter is that yes, the old suit is iconic. And in a perfect world, Melissa would be as invulnerable as her character, and wouldn't be bothered by wearing that suit in cold temperatures. But it's just not practical for a season where night shoots hits 20-40 degrees, on a regular basis. And no "freshening up" of the old suit, while still keeping the skirt and tights, was going to change that concern. Literally no other person in the Arrowverse has been shooting wearing as little as Melissa was. If it was a limited shoot, like a movie, or a mini-series, that's fine. But this girl has been working in that suit for longer than literally any other actor who has portrayed Supergirl OR Superman, in film or tv, has had to. The closest runner up is Dean Cain. His version of Superman ran for 88 episodes. Supergirl will match that on the very first episode of the season. And we don't count Smallville because he didn't wear any sort of "suit" until season 9.

I get that you are upset with the change. What you see as the quintessential version of Supergirl has been changed. And if you choose to bail on the show, that's your choice. If you choose to stick with it, that's cool, too. As for how these changes impact the show's future, we just have to wait and see how the season pans out, and where the ratings fall. I'm also reserving final judgement to see how the suit, and Melissa's new hair, look in motion for flying and fighting scenes.

I'm not saying your concerns are not valid. They are. And I'm absolutely sure you aren't the only one that feels that way. But I would ask that you recognize that there are perhaps just as many people who love the suit. and others, like myself, who kinda fall in the middle ground. And if official promo photos of the new suit, or seeing it in action doesn't sell you, then hey, maybe it's just not for you, anymore. And if that ends up being the case, that is totally fine.

And who knows? Maybe you are right, the ratings just tank. In that situation, there are 2 likely scenarios:

1) The show ends. They would probably renew it for at least a shortened 6th season, just to give closure. And I would be okay with that, because back in season 1, I predicted this show would MAYBE get 3 seasons. I never imagined 5-6.

2) The other possibility is that the producers realize that the suit has had a detrimental effect on the show, and try to backpedal for a future season. I don't imagine them going back to the original suit, but maybe they'd create a new version that goes back to the skirted look. I don't personally see this happening, because they'd be going back to the same health, safety, and comfort concerns the original suit has. BUT...I have to acknowledge that at least it's a possibility.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can see your point, but I want to iterate that the sky is not falling, and ask that you acknowledge that, while certainly there are those who share your thoughts, it doesn't indicate a negative reaction by the fandom at large.

I truly hope some of the promotional material we get in the coming months is more to your liking.
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@ Kelly and Brierronse:

@ Brierrose: Not disputing your points. Just saying that too much tinkering will be the show's undoing. That's all! It started with the wonky writing, dodgy science and plausibility issues, character additions and losses (although to be expected), then the suit change. What's next? What more can they snafu?

@ Kelly: Valid points. But, as seen in S4, the suit change works only if it's for a short duration (e.g. one-off super suit, anti-Kryptonite suit, etc.), it does not work well over an entire season.

As for the suit changes on other shows, that's precisely why I don't bother with them. That plus the fact that Arrow and the Flash have been unwatchable story-wise the last two seasons. Horrid writing on both. Arrow should have ended mercifully last year and the Flash, despite still being popular, is running on vapour creatively. Legends of Tomorrow is another kettle of fish I won't bother to get into here.

In all honesty, the show can end anytime the PTB deem it to be expendable - 7-year contracts or not. If it doesn't do well or some unforeseen factors come into play, they will cut their losses and move on. Like pro sports, a contract is only a document with numbers on it and money exchanging hands. Business is business - the spreadsheet and the bottom line are the law.

Although the old suit may have needed freshening up a bit, it should not have been ditched. The new suit does not make Melissa look more adult or more 21st Century - it makes her look completely generic and no different than every other spandex-clad superhero out there today. This is not a good thing. And, no, it has nothing to do with sexism or being stuck in one's one-track way of thinking - it has everything to do with iconic image and how it is projected to the viewers. Mess with that, especially with this character, and you're in troubled waters.

Melissa's comfort and well-being are certainly paramount considerations, but they can work with and around the inclement weather in Vancouver. They have the technology and access to materials and locations that would be less physically discomforting for her. What they lack is / was foresight to counteract the elements through shoot planning. This is much easier to do in Vancouver than Toronto or Montreal where inclement weather is much more severe and longer lasting.

So, please stop shaking your head and going OMG and believing that I'm taking a hissy. I'm not. What I am doing is showing very genuine concern for the choices the brass and the lead actor made regarding this switch. On one level, it's perfectly logical; but in another comic book-based vantage point (which is what the viewers are looking for), this one's a huge dud.
"Contemporary" - Rick Estrin & The Nightcats, from the CD/Download Contemporary. (2019)
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And yes, we discussed those reasons in the news section. All totally valid reasons to change to pants. And seeing as this is the Crisis season......even better time to change to pants.....hopefully she can get more action in the crossover.
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Are u kidding me, if it is her last season on her contract then maybe.....but last season because of the suit change????? Seriously?

I didn't like the first half of the season, made that very clear here.....did not like the writing at all....not enough Supergirl in action for me. HOWEVER, places like IGN saw it as the best of all 4 seasons, a website FULL OF PURISTS....so though I didn't like it, there were plenty of longtime Supergirl comicbook fans that loved it....I respect that...and respected their opinion, I'm glad they enjoyed it.

So unless Melissa signed a 5 season contract, this won't be the last season.

Why is it that the other shows can go through 4 and 5 suit changes......but OOOOOMMMMGGGGGG Supergirl wants to come off the page into the 21st century and it is heresy.

SMH, I just don't get it.....

Oh well looking forward to SDCC and the trailer, new flying scenes, and if I had my guess far more action from Supergirl....
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Why shouldn’t Melissa want to look like the adult she is. Why shouldn’t she have more range of motion.
Hope, Help and Compassion for all
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