Supergirl Season 2: Divisive Fan Groups

Things I love about Supergirl...

Kara and Alex relationship
Alex and Maggie relationship
Jonn's relationship with everyone
Is she good is she bad Lena Luthor
Mama Luthor, scares the bejezus out of me and I love that
Kara and Mon-El

Those are in no particular order, I just want to have a post in here that is all positive. This show makes my Monday and anytime I decide to re-watch an episode. This last episode I've watched 3 times already because it is just that good.

*sighs* That feels good.

Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.

this right here is an example that causes divisiveness. A blank statement of "he is becoming the second lead" as the OP mentioned without any backup. fact is he was barely in "Martian Chronicles" and "the Luthors". Leads dont go missing for whole episodes like that.

I know I have ranted a few times about guardian but I would never begrudge or think less of someone if they liked the Guardian.

EXACTLY.....I actually envy them......

Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.

this right here is an example that causes divisiveness. A blank statement of "he is becoming the second lead" as the OP mentioned without any backup. fact is he was barely in "Martian Chronicles" and "the Luthors". Leads dont go missing for whole episodes like that.

I know I have ranted a few times about guardian but I would never begrudge or think less of someone if they liked the Guardian.

I'd just like to add that the primary attraction of this show is entertainment. At the same time since the 70s, shows have been used to express certain issues. I remember the shock people had when menopause was covered on All in the Family. Pretty bland by today's standards! But that is TV.

I have friends who have stopped watching for various reasons. I respect their decision. I will continue to watch and remember that a lot of material was drawn from the silver age. For example, Supergirl had a fling with Mon-El.

Yes, there are some things about the current season I do not like. However, I overall enjoy it, particularly 2.2. In the tradition of TV, the EPs raise certain issues: immigration, inter-racial relationships, the life of being gay. Frankly, some people will be ticked off by some content. My sole concern is for the young girls and boys watching this. Is some material or issues too mature for them? I am not judging the content. We also need to remember this.

In the end, Kara Zor-El makes me happy. I look forward to each Monday night and DVR each episode. Some I like and can watch a number of times; others I just view once and say "Meh." But Kara continues to draw me in her story, her growth, her successes and failures.

Argo

Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.

Wasn't talking about a ship war. I'm saying he's good character. I liked him long before he was a romance interest.

Quite an interesting discussion! Thanks to all for your input and for the admin for starting the thread. Now for my 2 cents worth: I really don't follow Twitter or any of the other websites very much, but from what I've seen and heard about, I'm reminded of a wonderful line from "Inherit the Wind'" when Spencer Tracy comments that "fanaticism and ignorance are forever busy, and need feeding." It's a sad fact of life today that so many are so angry about so many different things (often without justification, but that's another topic). I'm neither a psychologist or a sociologist, but it seems that many people have a deep need to be angry; if they are not angry they are not happy. In the anonymity of the internet they can rave away. The absence of that is what makes this website so great. Yes, we have spirited debates and disagreements, but I think that many of us feel we "know" each other, and it fosters a more civil dialog. So I guess my advice is to follow Supergirl.TV and ignore the rest.

Stop thinking in terms of who ships who. It's all about the screen time. He's rapidly becoming the second lead. I don't want to see more Alex and Maggie, I want to understand why Mon El has become so vital to this series.

However with full respect to the Administrators, I will not continue the debate here in a thread intended to foster peace. If you wish we may start a new post and talk it out in a civil manner.

Mon El is going to tear the fandom apart. It's only going to get worse as the season continues.

The myopic focus on this character and his relationship with Supergirl has altered the basic dynamic of the show.

Let's agree to disagree. I do not see at all what is wrong with him. Mon-El is an awesome character with much humour and wit, well portrayed and well written. A fine addition to the second season, and carries the show when other characters let it down.

I don't know if your problem is with Mon-El or with Kara having a relationship and I don't see how either is a bad thing. If you think Kara's love life is a distraction to a show about her, yet the heavy focus on the love life of a supporting character isn't, then I don't quite understand the reasoning.

Mon El is going to tear the fandom apart. It's only going to get worse as the season continues.

The myopic focus on this character and his relationship with Supergirl has altered the basic dynamic of the show.

The "Writer's room" on Twitter was confronted by a mom that stated she was not able to allow her kids of 10 and I believe 12 to watch Supergirl anymore because of the #Sanvers relationship. She asked how was she supposed to explain this relationship to her children when they asked....

I found that to be a question that is asked a lot on Twitter...as far as the show is concerned and the actors portraying these roles, the answer should be simple. These two people love each other.....done. Our children will take on our viewpoints no matter how right or wrong they are.

My view is really very simple, if two people love each other, who am I to say they are wrong. If they love each other shouldn't they be free to express that love like any other couple that is in love and growing in a relationship? yes.... I do not begin to understand the Biological details of any of this..... what I do know is I want people to be happy, I want people to belong, I want people to feel they belong, and I want people to be free to be themselves. That is the simplicity of it.

What I am seeing on Twitter however, is one group not even desiring to understand the other group. When I see videos posted on twitter and the statement with the video is.... "The only important scenes in Supergirl right here" and it is only the #Sanvers scenes, that is ridiculous, and I see that a lot. Or manips of some of the posters to push their agenda. That is not being inclusive, and yet they demand to be included. I want to shout to them....... I WANT YOU TO BE INCLUDED, I LOVE THAT YOU ARE BEING INCLUDED, I LOVE MAGGIE AND ALEX'S RELATIONSHIP. It is such a cool relationship, and the actors and writers and producers are doing a beautiful job of portraying it....and then I see so many that have cried out for this inclusion, totally excluding every other aspect of Supergirl and then getting upset when someone questions their fandom of the series. It has gotten to the point that I have to block/mute those people and it absolutely breaks my heart that I can't have great conversations with them.....I wish I could. I know that it has come from both sides of this issue, but it has been a far greater number of those that I described above. As some have stated those that are against same sex relationships for the most part have departed from the show....I find that sad, but I can only say to that......they are the ones missing out on a great show, I do not believe for one second that the show should forgo these relationships. They have not been overly demonstrative about Maggie and Alex's relationship that I can see, but it is of course their choice, and they have made it. Just as I stated above the "Writers Room" was asked that question from the mom, and their answer was really simple..... tell them that they are in love. And as was so beautifully stated at last year's Tony Awards... "Love is love, is love, is love, is love......" In my opinion, it is as simple as that, and I think both sides can learn a lesson from that sentiment.

What I see on tmblr and twitter in GREAT NUMBERS unfortunately is 1 side stating (it's THIS and only THIS is important, all other stuff is irrelevant and makes the show crap) and the other side stating (THAT is wrong and should not be seen, and THAT is what is making the show crap).....and the rest of us are in between simply trying to post and talk about a show that we love. It's pretty sad.....

Kelly

And this is why the fan community such as we have here at Supergirl.tv is greatly needed. Namely, to avoid the wild extremes found in other online outlets and to provide a semblance of balance and a modicum of civilised debate. It is also a fair and free-flow exchange of ideas on a character / characters and a TV series we all love so much.

Truth be told, this conversation would be as heated - if not more so - if the same-sex relationship angle that is currently being conveyed between two female characters were male instead. The vitriol would be at a fever pitch. Nasty wouldn't even begin to cover it.

Sadly, I have also noticed that some of the posters that used to contribute to these boards on a fairly regular basis left when the Sanvers relationship came into being. They've either gone to other TV show groups and / or have stopped watching Supergirl completely. Sometimes pushing the tolerance and acceptance envelope can repel people rather than engage them in constructive dialogue and expanded thought. This isn't necessarily a personal character fault of any particular individual, but rather a social tolerance threshold.

In my modest view, the EPs, producers and writers would be well served to note the social tolerance thresholds and it would be more beneficial for them in the long run to more carefully weigh some their creative choices if the angles they are attempting to put out to the public were nudged along rather than pushed.

In any event, the EPs, producers and writers will have to grapple with this more fully and tactfully in the long run if the show wishes to retain its core viewership and not run it into the ground by appearing to appeal to / appease a particular "agenda" or get bogged down with too many side-stories.

I agree with a great deal of what has been brought forth by various posters in this thread and feel that a little more foresight and character development / follow-through by the writers, producers and EPs is required to keep the good ship Supergirl on an even storytelling keel.

As many have correctly pointed out, some of the relationships or expanded character roles in S2 have worked out well, some haven't, and some are skating on very thin plausibility ice and are testing viewers' patience. This has nothing to do with the actors, crews or their abilities, but rather the producers and writers' decision to push an all-inclusive model which the viewing public may or may not be completely receptive to. The common mantra of two steps forward and one step back comes to mind.

Nonetheless, from my perspective, as long as Supergirl's story is told and treated with a degree of fairness and honesty (which in our current world is in very short supply), it is a show worth waiting for and continuing to watch on a regular basis.

Remember, stay positive and stay constructively engaged.

Argo...this! "..but I find that there is an extremist Lesbian community that can be awfully gross. My sister (who has 2 Mothers-in-Law) and I have discussed this."

You have completely summed up my concerns on this. Though I disagree with homosexuality, I'm one that doesn't judge, nor condemn. People CAN disagree with choices while still adoring people making said choices.

With THAT said, what's made me most disgusted is simply the part of the Lesbian community that have taken a SECTION of the Sanvers fanbase (and Supercorp) to a whole new level of gross, from what I've experienced online...which, IMHO takes away from the "innocence" and unity the show once exhibited. ..and hinders their "cause." So, I've learned just to hang here in our lovely Supergirl community. It USE to be fun "out there," though...watching Supergirl trend and get more recognition in social media. But Eric and Kelsey are correct...the whole feel of a chunk of the fanbase has gone awry--either being gross or just simply fighting online. Boooo.

Thank you to you all! This has been a very therapeutic thread for Kelsey and I. I don't know that we intended it to be that but all of your comments, grace, care, and thoughtful replies has reminded us why this site has the best Supergirl community on the web!

If we were to sum up an outcome of this thread in a simple statement, it would have to be; "Continue to love the parts of the show you love, love them passionately and get lost in the majesty of it all. But know that what makes this show great for some isn't true for all. Be kind, be thoughtful and allow all to enjoy every aspect not by tearing down what you don't like, but by raising up the parts you do."

You guys are an incredible group of fans, thank you again!

Part 2

Ships – I plainly find it offensive what I see on Tumbler, Twitter, and other sites. I am not a prude, but I find that there is an extremist Lesbian community that can be awfully gross. My sister (who has 2 Mothers-in-Law) and I have discussed this. I remember very clearly that on one site they fotoshopped an implied sex act between Cat and Kara. They have also had ones of the two kissing. I find that as gross as if you had Hugh Heffner kissing her. Age inappropriate. In addition, there is that constant drive to have Lena and Kara engage in a sexual relationship. There is a ton of this stuff on-line and I think it disparages the gay community, as wall as offends.
The M’Gann relationship I found odd. Did it add to this years’ story arc? While well done, I thought it distracting.
Lena and Lillian – I love Lillian’s villainy. She is the perfect foil for Supergirl this year. She is human, smart, and dangerous. She is a worthy mother to Lex Luthor and I am excited to see what happens to her. Lena, in turn, is tough as nails. She can take on her mother and I believe she truly loves Kara in the friendship way. But, like Cat, she is a high-powered executive and you don’t get there without dirtying your hands. There is a gray aspect to her and we will see how that plays out.
Mon-El – The on-screen banter is wonderful to see. Now that they have finally taken the plunge, I hope the Eps don’t take us down a dark road Kara deserves happiness. I do not se this as distracting her from her primary mission.
Jeremiah – What about him?? Everyone is focused elsewhere and not on him. This was the second part of the Cadmus Arc and they have been too slow to deliver. Fans expected better and we shall see what happens next week and perhaps beyond…?

Kara Zor-El – All the facets of Kara are expressions of her true self, whether she is Kara Danvers or Supergirl. I enjoy getting to know the Kara Danvers side. She is different from her Supergirl persona. But she is one in the same and I think we all need to remember that. She is one, and to know all gives a wonderful view of her as an individual.

Season 3 – I hope that the EPs build on the strengths of the actors and character to create a cohesive and flowing Arc. I think this year, they have failed in that regard and they need to focus their attention on a manageable storyline without going all over the place. In terms of cast, their biggest problem is James. He does not seem to have a place in the show. The EPs need to resolve that and again focus on what Supergirl is about.

My 2 cents.

Argo

Part 1

Eric, you have raised a very interesting topic. A lot of what I have seen written thus far, I agree with. I am going to try to address it from several POVs.
General Storyline – Season 2 thus far is not as good as Season 1. There are several reasons for this IMO. The departure of Cat Grant was a significant loss and there has not been actor of her caliber to replace her. It is not the EP’s fault she did not follow, but I believe they need to find a comparable character and plot. The overall stories have not been as good, though I think Season 2.2 is showing vast improvements. Sterling Gates and his co-writer put together a fantastic story. We do need humor and cultural references. M/MM achieved that and I will admit I am looking forward to the musical. We do need some fun.
There are too many storylines going on and that dilutes the power of the show and the actors. If they stayed with the Cadmus Arc and Kara’s Journalism as promised, then they would be more concentrated. This would not leave out Lena, Mon-El, and Alex.
Now let’s look at our actors: James is a problem. He reminds me of Pirandello’s “Six Actors in search of a Play”. He has no proper role in the show and I believe that is a large part responsible for the negativity. They need to establish a sound role or get rid of the character. This is not a comment on Mehcad’s acting skills.
Lena is an excellent addition. The grayness of her character coupled with Cadmus and the fantastic villainy of Brenda strong is an asset. It fits with the Arc.
Mon-El is a great addition. The on-screen chemistry with Kara is fantastic. I enjoy it very much. They remind me of Tracey and Hepburn; Bruce Willis and Sybil Shephard. There is a lot of fun in their give and take. As for the romance, come on! Let’s give the girl a break! She deserves happiness and love beyond family.
I miss Sisters Night and the writers and EPs have committed a mortal sin in discarding it. Regardless of relationships, they can spend time together. This is a big failure and they need to return to it.
Maggie is controversial. Not because she is a Lesbian, but because whose she’s hooked up with. I take that back. A lot of people just freak out at the thought or representation of a gay relationship. I think the Eps have handled it very respectfully, but I for one was very much against Alex being the chosen one. I believe it sent the wrong message that you can be a tough woman who prefers jeans and pants, loves her weapons and not be heterosexual. I am afraid it establishes a stereotype. I noted that he Valentines’ scene with Maggi in a type of Tux and Alex in a dress sent a subliminal and perhaps unintended message: Maggie is the dominant partner in this ship. Personally, I was offended. Again, Alex has been made all wishy this year in this regard and I think it contrary to her character.

Argo

As most around here know, I am very straight forward with my opinions....lol

With that said, I will always be loyal to the fans here, and to the fans on the site that I moderate as well. That is a given with me, and that loyalty extends to the owners of those sites as well. So, anytime that I see or feel that those people are being treated unfairly, I will strongly speak out against that, I think people that know me here, on SHH and follow me on Twitter would agree that I am not blowing hot air with the above statement.

Eric is correct there are groups out there that hold an agenda when watching this show and feeding into the fan base. This particular series is not the only one that has gone through this....Arrow has had a terrible "shipping" war for years, Flash has gone through it as well, LoT to a certain degree, and of course the first of this group Agents Of Shield. It is one of the reasons why most of the actors stay away from ALL SITES, it's a shame that they cannot frequent these sites, but I for one am very glad that they do not.

As far as my site (SHH) and this site, we have not really had the problem of certain groups coming in whether they "ship" one couple or another. There was a time that we had a few come in and hijack the news comments on the front page, but not often. SHH is lucky that our Front Page News comments are separate and far away from the forum. TWITTER and Tmblr however are not as pleasant as this site. I have used my block and mute option on TWITTER moreso recently than ever before....lol, THAT is how I would encourage those of you that frequent those areas and do not like what you are reading, to do.....rather than partake in the divisiveness...I got pulled in Monday night and a little Tuesday, and that was when I decided that the Mute/Block was the best option, that is what I would suggest.

As for me, I HIGHLY respect those fans that have been a fan of Supergirl for decades from the early years of the comics to now. I learned that respect from being a non-comic book reader, joining a large comic book/ movie site having absolutely no knowledge of these superheros except that i had watched a movie or two about them. They taught me, and because of that I respect them. That is something that I believe the "new" fans to Supergirl need to do far more as well. LEARN from them....

This is not a show about homogeneous vs. heterogeneous relationships it is not a show about Feminism vs. Male Empowerment, it is not a show about Conservative vs. Liberal, it is not a show about Black vs. White......it is about ALL OF THOSE THINGS living, learning, coping, crying, laughing, fighting TOGETHER, not FIGHTING AGAINST each other. IMO, this show would not be what it is, or as enjoyable as it is IF ANY OF THOSE THINGS were lost. Therefore, I don't see one above the other, I don't see one more important than the other. I feel, however, that it is KARA/SUPERGIRL that is the central point that all of those things revolve around, so...............IT IS LOGICAL, that those that are closest to her will have screen time above the others. The only time I'm going to gripe about screen time is when KARA/SUPERGIRL does not have the lion share of it. THAT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. I will also gripe when KARA/SUPERGIRL is not the lead in vanquishing the foe, THAT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. I will also gripe when other heroes take her time on screen, THAT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. hahahahahahahahaha....because it is Kara/Supergirl that should be the nodal point of this series. SO, it is this point that I try and find clarity and agreement on with all of the fans above....IF THEY DO NOT agree on that point, then they go on mute/block AND that problem is taken care of. That is how I navigate all of these sites, and thus far it has worked beautifully.

And know this for sure, this site and its regulars, SHH and its regulars will have my backing, always.........just a warning, I can get testy when those people are disrespected.

Just my two cents...... or maybe 5 cents...

I for one am surprised at the vitriol I have seen on other sites or in other media. Maybe this is a personal thing for me, but I cannot understand a person disliking one aspect or a few aspects of a show, and then berating others who like those aspects. And it always seems to be about the romantic pairings that people spar the most. It is probably due to the fact that I dont care for romantic relationships in any kind of media, that I dont understand disliking or liking a romantic couple so much that people would put down another person for liking the opposite. I am not fond of Kara and Mon El, mostly bc as I said before, romantic relationships dont interest me. I found their mentor-mentee dynamic much more interesting. But if someone likes it, that is fine! I want people to like the show. And if you tune in every week because you want to see more of Mon El and Kara, or you want to see Alex and Maggie be all cute, or you want to see Kara and Lena's chemistry, or you want to see Supergirl defeat the bad guys, that is great!

Anyway, this site is great. Everyone is so thoughtful and polite, even when people disagree. I always tend to take the mental stance when it comes to television that as long as I am having fun watching, I will continue. It comes from Tegan from Doctor Who says "...if you stop enjoying it, give it up...It's stopped being fun." Supergirl is still a lot of fun for me, and I can only hope it continues to be fun for other fans, old and new.

Jondix squeeze kiwi ... and gets an orange juice ... kidding, my hug was too hard :-*
evrafter where are you ?

Over here *waves and jumps up and down*

As for people who miss Cat Grant and M'gann (you didn't add her, I did):

The show has four regular male characters, and two female characters and people still think it is female skewing. Some of the comments suggest "That we men need something too." Even though, we barely have any woman other than Alex sharing screen time with Kara (unless, it is the Lena beat that happens at times). We have no Kara supporting M'gann. Instead, it is just J'onn supporting M'gann. (We didn't even get an Alex supporting M'gann directly. or much of an interaction therein. Her support was for J'onn.).

Oh... and we even have M'gann in that support telling to J'onn "You showed me how to be brave." M'gann, the person, who stood up to an entire powerful race and refused to do their bidding, M'gann, who went up against her own culture alone because she was standing up for what she believed, in telling J'onn that he showed her how to be brave. Because he stood up to a couple of White Martians with the help of powerful friends.

The dialogue would have made sense if M'gann had said "You showed me how to forgive myself." But not, the inspiration was bravery.

So,.. That feminist theme. Seems pretty lacking what with all the story of Guardian, Kara spending most of her time with Mon El and all the focus, since the first episode on Kara-Mon El, and whatever time allotted to M'gann being devoted to J'onn-M'gann.

Along with some of the criticism above and in my previous comments, what I have an issue with is the lack of Danvers sisters time, lack of friend time and the lack of a coherent story. And how out of character some from S1 appears to be.

Alex seems to no longer care to spend time with Kara. She keeps letting Kara go on missions alone with no support or strategic input. And when Kara, just once, says she would like to spend time with her, Alex says that "Kara is trying to make her guilt" (that was the White Martian, but he/she/it was channeling Alex) and then, later, says that Kara is not really missing Alex, but Mon El.

In the previous episode, when her city's safety and her sister's life's happiness was at stake, Alex was away in her valentines' day angst. We don't get to see her giving Kara any support at all (except for the Mon-El is jealous comment; it was not typical S1 support.)

Oh... and Mon El has taken over as Kara's side-kick. Rather than Alex. It is no longer the sister duo crime-fighting team; it is the Alien couple crime-fighting team. That is what they said in this last episode anyways.

Oh and neither Alex, nor Kara, nor J'onn seems to care what happened to Jeremiah. There is no indication at all that they are searching for him.

And Kara has been spending most of her time getting Mon El to be a hero. (The few minutes that are not part of the Cadmus story where she spends time with Lena, or the other few minutes, when she spends with Guardian).

She professes to want to be a journalist at the start of the season, but we barely see any of that. Except when it is expedient for the show to have the Cadmus and Lena storyline.

And in my opinion, they could have made the Mon El story a lot more compelling. They didn't do that. They could have shown his struggle instead of showing some funny lines and then, basically making him a brat (fratboy) who "supposedly" learns to care for other people (though, so far, we have seen him care only for his romantic interest). We barely see any of that. So, basically, the only reason for a viewer to invest on him is that a. he is funny. b. he has chemistry with Melissa. c.He was a rather ordinary selfish guy who is now trying to be good.

They could have shown it from her POV, why she liked him. (I saw suggestions in another site where they said the show could have at least suggested that, she is going with Mon El, because she can have intimacy with him without fear of crushing him; which is a very valid point; and that she is probably overlooking a great many things just for some form of that; Or, may be, she wants to discuss Krypton with him.. and she has some feeling of unwarranted closeness with him because of Rao (their shared religion or affinity to star or something). But, she says none of that; the show doesn't show that. The show only shows his POV with her succumbing to it.)

And... Aside from Cadmus storyline (which I don't know how they will treat), the rest of the season is about Mon El and the folks who come searching for him. So, basically, 60-70% of the season is Kara-Mon El romance and the fall out. With most of it from his POV (that is the third or fourth time I am saying it; I am getting repetitive and I am bored with myself.).

How does the line "this season and this show is at its core about relationships between women and how they support each other" gel with that?

I think if the Mon El story was compelling enough and not a repeat of such a tired cliche, most people would have supported the eventual romance (at least, that is the inkling I get). Especially, if it didn't take so much time away from the women and Alex-Kara, Alex-Kara-J'onn and Kara and her friends. It's not as if gay people don't support or ship straight ships. They wouldn't have survived otherwise. Ditto for POC. It's not as if they don't see or enjoy a white cast.

Me? I am missing the Season 1 dynamic and Alex who cared about her sis and family and who always put them first sorely. And James who cared about Kara's feelings and Winn who would have never went behind her back for some vigilante hijinks.

Note: I like Chris Wood (what I have seen of him) and most of the time I like Mon El, though not so much these past couple of episodes. This definitely is not a criticism of Chris' acting.

Good Day!