How closely do you want/need the tone of superhero TV shows to mirror “real life” and why?

"They do sometimes do the eye roll at the "happy go lucky" Kara, because they don't believe in reality anyone can be that happy all the time...."

And of course, this brings us right back to the original question that was asked: how closely do you want the show to mirror real life? Apparently, your students want more "reality" in Supergirl than some of us "old-timers" do. But of course, I grew up with "happy go lucky" Kara of the 60s and 70s comics, so it's what I expect she'll be like. Perhaps your students are growing up with more "realistic" superhero and science fiction shows (and comics), so that's what they expect to see.
Like Kiwi said, for me the answer to the original question is - "not too closely"

To be fair, I enjoyed season 6 of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," which was equally dark (like Kara, Buffy was brutally defeated by the villain; and struggled to regain her confidence in subsequent episodes)

Do tell more from what you can recall, Did the brutal defeat take SMG out of an entire episode or nearly an entire episode?, how many episodes did it take to get back to her normal self?, did she not fight during the time it took to regain her confidence or was she fighting but tending to lose?. Reason I'm asking these questions is that Supergirl's darker tone this season might lend itself to more realism than fantasy for Kara's recovery time whereby she may spend most of Episode 10 in the coma and may not be allowed by J'onn or Alex to take back to the skies till Episode 12 or 13, true that's a possible worst case scenario and I definitely hope that's not the case and she's back in action by the end of Episode 10. I've felt there's been less Supergirl action this season so I don't fancy a few episodes of waiting for her to recover.


Kelly " I think women of the 21st century, especially those that are 20 somethings and teens can relate far more with the New 52 Supergirl. That is the audience they are really wanting to grow, so I can see why we are seeing more from that era."

I imagine then the darker tone will stay around for the rest of Season 3 but how do you see it in future seasons?. I'm wanting Supergirl Season 4 to have a lighter,fun tone (similar to what The Flash returned to this season after a darker Season 3 of their show) with a happy and contented Kara/Supergirl but do you feel the target audience (which includes your students) wouldn't enjoy that as much and maybe the darker tone sticks around for future seasons?.


Jtardy "Kiwi, I am afraid that real fantasy is what and English rugby supporter experiences when contemplating defeating the All Blacks!"

And long may that fantasy continue for you . Here's a memory you would rather forget but is great for an All Blacks fan (Jonah Lomu steamrolls England defence - RWC 1995).

I believe Barry is now in jail, so not sure how upbeat he is at the moment....lol

As far as my students? It's not so much about it being "dark" that they like....they like the "edge" of it more this season. They do sometimes do the eye roll at the "happy go lucky" Kara, because they don't believe in reality anyone can be that happy all the time.....and some have said it begins to make her look one dimensional, and silly. Whereas this season, and even the last 10 episodes of last season they said that Kara was using her head more, and still naive, not stupid/naive.....smart/naive.

Kiwi - Buffy was killed as a cliffhanger at the end of Season 5. I believe, if I remember correctly, she was back by the end of the season opener. But, I think it was a two-part premiere and she didn't get back until the end of that. I actually hated Season 6 of Buffy, not because it was too dark but, because Buffy was almost completely disconnected emotionally from her family and friends for quite a bit of the season.

I don't think that this season with Kara, so far, is anything like Season 6 of Buffy. Kara is struggling to find herself and has moments when she tried to separate herself from her family/friends (specifically in Episode 1) but, for the most part, she still feels a deep emotional connection to them.

To talk about a Season being dark or not, I think we almost need to distinguish what it is that makes a show dark because I don't think that Supergirl this season has turned completely dark, with the exception of Episode 9. The mood has maybe been a bit more depressing and brooding than previously, although there were many episodes in Season 1 that had those same elements. But, this season still has had some lighter moments and we're really not even half-way through the season to render a proper judgement on it as a whole.

I think that adding some edge and some darker tones to the show helps give the characters and the show more depth. The producers may be targeting the millennials but, I don't think that a desire to see those elements in shows is limited to just them. Honestly, I believe that the shallowness of previous seasons has been one of the Supergirl show's weaknesses and why it has turned some viewers off to it, of various ages. The key is finding a proper balance, which is not an easy task to do when your viewers are as diverse in demographics as they are for the show.

"The place of women in the world, acceptance of other cultures and races, giving to others to your own detriment, are all issues that seem to me to be inextricably wired into the story of this Supergirl (not read the comics I am afraid)."

Yes, those have been major themes in the Supergirl comics over the years as well (and also Wonder Woman comics).

"Do you read the Supergirl comics, because Reign did that exact thing to Kara in the comics.....
Supergirl has pulled from various iterations throughout these past few years, and it is now pulling heavily from the New 52.... "

I agree - but some of us DC Comics readers never liked the New 52 version of Supergirl. To me, she just wasn't a likable character. The first two seasons of the TV show seemed to me to pull most heavily from the "Daring New Adventures of Supergirl" series of the early 80s, which I liked very much! (It's still available on Comixology.com )

That doesn't mean they shouldn't pull from the New 52....I didn't like all of the arcs, but there are many that I really enjoy. I think women of the 21st century, especially those that are 20 somethings and teens can relate far more with the New 52 Supergirl. That is the audience they are really wanting to grow, so I can see why we are seeing more from that era.

Unfortunately Stewart, you and I are not the target audience...

"The place of women in the world, acceptance of other cultures and races, giving to others to your own detriment, are all issues that seem to me to be inextricably wired into the story of this Supergirl (not read the comics I am afraid)."

Yes, those have been major themes in the Supergirl comics over the years as well (and also Wonder Woman comics).

"Do you read the Supergirl comics, because Reign did that exact thing to Kara in the comics.....
Supergirl has pulled from various iterations throughout these past few years, and it is now pulling heavily from the New 52.... "

I agree - but some of us DC Comics readers never liked the New 52 version of Supergirl. To me, she just wasn't a likable character. The first two seasons of the TV show seemed to me to pull most heavily from the "Daring New Adventures of Supergirl" series of the early 80s, which I liked very much! (It's still available on Comixology.com )

A huge part of the enjoyment of this show is the fact it concerns a creature from across the skies who has incredible powers and a determination to protect humans in the face of significant challenges. This is lots of fun. (It helps that the creature coincidentally happens to look like MB rather than ET.)

For me though, it is not enough. It needs to be anchored to reality in some way, to provide lasting interest. We are fortunate in having an actress who is able to provide real depth to the characters of Kara and Supergirl, whilst also being a totally convincing action hero. But this interest comes not only from her emotions (and of those around her), but also the context (political/social) she has to operate in. The place of women in the world, acceptance of other cultures and races, giving to others to your own detriment, are all issues that seem to me to be inextricably wired into the story of this Supergirl (not read the comics I am afraid).

So for me, lots of super-ness please. But put it in a real context that I can connect with.

(Kiwi, I am afraid that real fantasy is what and English rugby supporter experiences when contemplating defeating the All Blacks!)

With any story - whether it's a supehero TV show or a fantasy/sci-fi film - the audience must have "empathy" towards the hero(ine). How is she/he like us? How can I connect his/her troubles to my life? (death of a loved one, family, relationship problems, career issues, etc.). Supergirl has done a very effective job of balancing the lighter and more serious tones, especially when it comes to Kara and her story (and really, who is more likable than Kara? Thank you Melissa Benoist)

That being said, just don't like season three. The darker tone turns me off. In particular, throughout season one and two, so many people on comic/movie-type websites/forums (though not Supergirl.TV) routinely criticized "Supergirl" for being too light in tone, juvenile, immature, etc. etc. And now many of those critics have now done an about face.They're praising the show for being more "real," more "adult" and "sophisticated." And what changed their minds? Reign savagely beating Kara/Supergirl. I don't need to see our heroine beaten, bruised and bloodied to suddenly see the show as "relevant." I thought Cadmus and Lena Luthor hit the perfect villainous tone in season two; and the worst Lena did was to take Kara's blood. To be fair, I enjoyed season 6 of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," which was equally dark (like Kara, Buffy was brutally defeated by the villain; and struggled to regain her confidence in subsequent episodes), but balanced it all with humor and heart.

Do you read the Supergirl comics, because Reign did that exact thing to Kara in the comics.

As far as "Buffy" I have to totally disagree. The first few years of Buffy were fun, but the last 5 were very dark, extremely dark in fact. I did not see any kind of balance in those last few years of "Buffy".

Supergirl has pulled from various iterations throughout these past few years, and it is now pulling heavily from the New 52....

To be honest, I actually hated season six of Buffy because it was so dark. I wanted the show to retain that fun "Scooby gang" vibe from earlier seasons. However, I watched season 6 again, around ten years later. I watched the season start to finish in about two days (Netflix). I could intellectually and emotionally appreciate what the show was trying to do with Buffy's arc this time around; and some of the humor stood out, because I had seen the episodes before. So it might be the same for Supergirl S3. Watch it again in a few years - when I'm not upset with the dark tonal shift - and enjoy it for what it's trying to accomplish. And "no," don't read the Supergirl comics. Just enjoy the TV show.

With any story - whether it's a supehero TV show or a fantasy/sci-fi film - the audience must have "empathy" towards the hero(ine). How is she/he like us? How can I connect his/her troubles to my life? (death of a loved one, family, relationship problems, career issues, etc.). Supergirl has done a very effective job of balancing the lighter and more serious tones, especially when it comes to Kara and her story (and really, who is more likable than Kara? Thank you Melissa Benoist)

That being said, just don't like season three. The darker tone turns me off. In particular, throughout season one and two, so many people on comic/movie-type websites/forums (though not Supergirl.TV) routinely criticized "Supergirl" for being too light in tone, juvenile, immature, etc. etc. And now many of those critics have now done an about face.They're praising the show for being more "real," more "adult" and "sophisticated." And what changed their minds? Reign savagely beating Kara/Supergirl. I don't need to see our heroine beaten, bruised and bloodied to suddenly see the show as "relevant." I thought Cadmus and Lena Luthor hit the perfect villainous tone in season two; and the worst Lena did was to take Kara's blood. To be fair, I enjoyed season 6 of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," which was equally dark (like Kara, Buffy was brutally defeated by the villain; and struggled to regain her confidence in subsequent episodes), but balanced it all with humor and heart.

Do you read the Supergirl comics, because Reign did that exact thing to Kara in the comics.

As far as "Buffy" I have to totally disagree. The first few years of Buffy were fun, but the last 5 were very dark, extremely dark in fact. I did not see any kind of balance in those last few years of "Buffy".

Supergirl has pulled from various iterations throughout these past few years, and it is now pulling heavily from the New 52....

With any story - whether it's a supehero TV show or a fantasy/sci-fi film - the audience must have "empathy" towards the hero(ine). How is she/he like us? How can I connect his/her troubles to my life? (death of a loved one, family, relationship problems, career issues, etc.). Supergirl has done a very effective job of balancing the lighter and more serious tones, especially when it comes to Kara and her story (and really, who is more likable than Kara? Thank you Melissa Benoist)

That being said, just don't like season three. The darker tone turns me off. In particular, throughout season one and two, so many people on comic/movie-type websites/forums (though not Supergirl.TV) routinely criticized "Supergirl" for being too light in tone, juvenile, immature, etc. etc. And now many of those critics have now done an about face.They're praising the show for being more "real," more "adult" and "sophisticated." And what changed their minds? Reign savagely beating Kara/Supergirl. I don't need to see our heroine beaten, bruised and bloodied to suddenly see the show as "relevant." I thought Cadmus and Lena Luthor hit the perfect villainous tone in season two; and the worst Lena did was to take Kara's blood. To be fair, I enjoyed season 6 of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," which was equally dark (like Kara, Buffy was brutally defeated by the villain; and struggled to regain her confidence in subsequent episodes), but balanced it all with humor and heart.

"Not too closely, Supergirl to me is pure fantasy and a part of that is my personal preference for a lighter tone (1 of the reasons I enjoyed Season 1 so much) that I feel matches my ideal version of the character. "

Which for me is the Silver and Bronze Age Supergirl...

"I look for escapism with a show like this and the moments I enjoy the absolute most are watching Supergirl being Super which are all fantasy and not based in reality."

Exactly - that's the way I feel about it, too!

"For me I do need the characters to be grounded in reality. By that I mean in order for me to really enjoy a show the characters need to emotionally react in ways that are understandable to me. I have no problem suspending my disbelief to allow that an alien from the planet Krypton lives on Earth and has fantastic superpowers as long as she has an understandable emotional reaction to a given situation. Even if the situation itself is totally unrealistic as long the characters have what to me is an understandable emotional reaction to that situation I can forgive the occasional plot hole or fridge logic issues."

Yes, I agree. And that's what I like most about this show (and have been striving to duplicate in my own Supergirl fan fiction stories).

"I DO HOWEVER, think the writing needs to be consistent however, and in how all of this relates to the Supergirl series, as far a Kara's powers, the writing has been all over the place.

IMHO, the writers should have sat down and said....ok, this is what can really hurt Kara, this is what she can overcome, this is what will put her out of the game for awhile, this is what humans can do, this is what Kryptonians can do, this is what other aliens can do to Kara....and then try and stay as consistent as possible."

Totally agree - I noticed this sort of inconsistency way back in Season 1. In the Toyman episode ("Childish Things" ), Kara couldn't even fly out of a vat of quicksand without freezing it first. (In the old TV westerns, one cowboy was always able to pull another out of quicksand with just a lasso!) Then in the season finale, she was able to fly Fort Rozz (which had to weigh at least 10 tons) into space all by herself.

When I started writing my own Supergirl fan fiction (around that time), I made sure not to repeat this tendency, but to keep Kara's power level (and weaknesses) as consistent as possible.

As far as mirroring what is going on in society, I don't really see a problem with that....comics have been doing that for decades....probably some of the most political pieces of literature today are comics.

But, as far a a girl who can fly, kick arse, and whatever else they need her to do.....be fantastic, go big or go home.

I DO HOWEVER, think the writing needs to be consistent however, and in how all of this relates to the Supergirl series, as far a Kara's powers, the writing has been all over the place.

IMHO, the writers should have sat down and said....ok, this is what can really hurt Kara, this is what she can overcome, this is what will put her out of the game for awhile, this is what humans can do, this is what Kryptonians can do, this is what other aliens can do to Kara....and then try and stay as consistent as possible.

Case in point.....Supergirl vs. Superman Kara doesn't even have a bloody nose, YET, according to Superman he was at full power.

Supergirl vs. Reign Kara is beaten to a bloody pulp....

Where did they go wrong? Astra, Non and Superman should have brought blood if Reign is going to be able to do to her what she did....

Humans however should hit Kara and it bounce off like they just hit a brick wall, and yet we know this has not happened either....humans have put Kara on the floor.

UNLESS at some point, we find out that actually Reign is a Kryptonian on crack.....then what has happened can pass as reality in this fantastical world of Supergirl. I tend to....in my own head.....go with the answer that Reign is a Kryptonian on crack.

So, in closing......with the fantastical there has to be some reality in consistency.

In the comics, Reign is a bio-engineered weapon. Stronger than Kryptonians, and unable to be defeated by them. However, she doesn't have the Kryptonian power set (no heat vision or x-ray vision)

For the show, they've gone as far as saying Reign was created, as opposed to born. But they haven't really explored what that means, yet. Her powers may mirror those of a normal Kryptonian, but based on her being engineered and not "born", per say, I think it's reasonable to say that, in terms of sheer physical strength and the intensity of her powers, she may be superior to normal Kryptonians such as Supergirl and Superman. Perhaps vastly so.

This post may belong in the "Reign" thread. But in the comics, only another Worldkiller could kill another Worldkiller, and Reign was just one of multiple. Each Worldkiller's power set was different. They've clearly gone a different route with the show. Reign may be the only Worldkiller. We shall see!

...I do think it might be hard to discuss tone of the show and not include those topics in your edit because tone is a result of all of those aspects....

I’m actually cautiously ok with including social/political issues as part of tone but only if it’s part of a person’s why like @kdogg87. I just don’t want the thread to turn into a discussion about weather political elements belong in the show. If you don’t believe political elements belong as part of tone then simply don’t mention it, I want to hear what people want not what they don’t want. I thought I would be more restrictive knowing people have a tendency to extrapolate.

When someone says that political and social issues should be in a series, because that is what helps to set the overall tone of the show, and they have no problem with it I don't think are saying they agree or disagree with what is being said on the show. I watch all kinds of shows that are on the political spectrum from one end to the other....I don't have to agree with them.
I mean, how exactly are you going to talk about realism if you don't talk about realism....lol It is a show about a woman in the 21st century....what would one talk about as far as what is real in her world? If you talk about her job, you will get into social and political aspects of it, especially in journalism. If we talk about her as a servant of the people, you would get into those aspects again. If you talk about her working for a government agency....?

If people do not think that the show should talk about politics...ok, that is their opinion. If they think it should, that is their opinion. If some think that Supergirl should be apolitical, I'm cool with that as well. But all of that IS a part of the realism of the show.

To me, I think the REAL QUESTION IS..... what lens does one watch the show through....

If you watch the show through the Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age....whatever age comic book lens then you are going to see things far differently than someone who is watching it through a 20 something, professional woman lens, or a 13 year old girl lens.....

OR, does one simply watch it through the lens of just wanting to chill and enjoy a tv series? That would be me....that is why I'm really not into the whole character/science/whatever analysis of the show.....some people see it through a different lens. If you watch it through a political lens, then YES, you are going to find it either ok, or not ok depending on your leanings....I don't watch it through that lens, I describe mine at the end.

So to me, whatever lens you are watching it through really, IMO, says how much fantasy vs. realism you want and enjoy.

As for me, if 75% of 99% of the episodes are centered on Kara/Supergirl, and Melissa is on the screen the most, and Supergirl is being Super......then I'm good with how much political, social, fantastical, real stuff they want to put in it, no matter if I agree with it or not. I'm here to be entertained....

As far as mirroring what is going on in society, I don't really see a problem with that....comics have been doing that for decades....probably some of the most political pieces of literature today are comics.

But, as far a a girl who can fly, kick arse, and whatever else they need her to do.....be fantastic, go big or go home.

I DO HOWEVER, think the writing needs to be consistent however, and in how all of this relates to the Supergirl series, as far a Kara's powers, the writing has been all over the place.

IMHO, the writers should have sat down and said....ok, this is what can really hurt Kara, this is what she can overcome, this is what will put her out of the game for awhile, this is what humans can do, this is what Kryptonians can do, this is what other aliens can do to Kara....and then try and stay as consistent as possible.

Case in point.....Supergirl vs. Superman Kara doesn't even have a bloody nose, YET, according to Superman he was at full power.

Supergirl vs. Reign Kara is beaten to a bloody pulp....

Where did they go wrong? Astra, Non and Superman should have brought blood if Reign is going to be able to do to her what she did....

Humans however should hit Kara and it bounce off like they just hit a brick wall, and yet we know this has not happened either....humans have put Kara on the floor.

UNLESS at some point, we find out that actually Reign is a Kryptonian on crack.....then what has happened can pass as reality in this fantastical world of Supergirl. I tend to....in my own head.....go with the answer that Reign is a Kryptonian on crack.

So, in closing......with the fantastical there has to be some reality in consistency.

...I do think it might be hard to discuss tone of the show and not include those topics in your edit because tone is a result of all of those aspects....

I actually cautiously ok with including social/political issues as part of tone but only if it’s part of a person’s why like @kdogg87. I just don’t want the thread to turn into a discussion about weather political elements belong in the show. If you don’t believe political elements belong as part of tone then simply don’t mention it, I want to hear what people want not what they don’t want. I thought I would be more restrictive knowing people have a tendency to extrapolate.

Oh, I completely understand it. My first thought when I saw the topic was that it could become very divisive so, I'm glad to see a disclaimer on it . It's just difficult to discuss the two separately.

...I do think it might be hard to discuss tone of the show and not include those topics in your edit because tone is a result of all of those aspects....

I’m actually cautiously ok with including social/political issues as part of tone but only if it’s part of a person’s why like @kdogg87. I just don’t want the thread to turn into a discussion about weather political elements belong in the show. If you don’t believe political elements belong as part of tone then simply don’t mention it, I want to hear what people want not what they don’t want. I thought I would be more restrictive knowing people have a tendency to extrapolate.

Tough question without any simple answers. I do think it might be hard to discuss tone of the show and not include those topics in your edit because tone is a result of all of those aspects. And my expectation would be different based on the genre of the show and what was pitched by the producers. For a superhero show, I go into it with the knowledge that reality will be skewed. That said, I do like your choice of words that you need the characters to be grounded. But, I would lean more towards not needing characters to be ones that I can relate to but, rather that the characters are believable in their behavior - that, how they react makes sense because it is based on their experiences and personality. That makes them grounded for me.

Along with character consistency, I also like to have the story, conflict and resolution in a superhero show to make some sense. Again, it can be outside of the bounds of reality but, it needs to be plausible in the context that it is written.

As far as Kara and her behavior is concerned this season, based on her experiences of loss, abandonment, displacement and her empathetic, hero driven personality, I completely believe the struggles that she has been having and how she has responded to those struggles. I also think that the story elements are more consistent. As a result, I have enjoyed this season so far.

Depends on what the show is. Superheroes shows, for example, need not mirror reality at all. They can, but don’t have to.

A show is hurt however when the premise in universe state one thing but then it tries another, e.g. when the President is Olivia Marsdin but the show reflects America under Trump. There is no moral stance involved, simply the destruction of the fictional integrity from a narrative perspective.

On the other hand, ideas are different to events. For example, in real life or in any universe, women should be equal to men. Hence the promotion of good causes won’t drag the show down or hurt the fictional universe unless they are done in reference to real life. I’m sure some shows are written with a message or allegory in mind and especially for the allegorial shows then it is essential to mirror reality in some ways. I right now am working on a comic allegory series set in a futuristic planetary system, but intending to mirror and expose the imperialist nature of the recent Iraq and Afghan wars.

But of course the question is not limited to politics/morality. I actually prefer settings of scifi/fantasy where it barely is like real life. I think a large part of the appeal of fiction is that it offers a glimpse into things unseen daily, where people deal with imaginary problems like War of the Five Kings instead of the Syrian War. Which is kinda why I dig Star Wars over Star Trek, even if Star Trek has a classless economy where everyone is equal that makes a commie like me happy as hell.

I think that you are correct, in the sense that the situations can be completely fantastical, but it's important that how the characters react to those situations have a genuine feel to it. It's one thing I've found fantastic about Supergirl, and the other Berlanti DC productions. The situations the characters find themselves in are crazy and ridiculous, but the actors are able to portray the characters' responses to these situations in very real and grounded ways.

In my head, when we talk about TV mirroring real life, I usually think of if, and to what extent, it comments on current political and cultural issues.

With comic book shows, this is a hard question to gauge, in the sense of correlating events in shows or comics to current political, economic, and cultural issues. I like them to mirror as much as their comic book counterparts, I guess. Some people complain about the show's political stance, or how it portrays LGBT relationships. However, I think these kinds of stories are incredibly important. And comics have always been a commentary on the state of the world.

For example, Superman and Supergirl have always been immigrants, so I've always found it appropriate when the show addressed that issue, particularly in season 2.

Solicits for March comic books mention Supergirl has a new, non-binary friend. The solicit was brief, but I take that to mean non-binary gender. This is clearly an issue that is very relevant in today's world, particularly for youth who have a hard time coming to terms with themselves.

It's a hard line to ride. I feel like these shows should address the the issues of the modern world. Sometimes addressing those issues can be crystal clear, and mirror real life, like Alex's coming-out arc, and how genuine it felt. But sometimes, they can be addressed in a more fictional medium, such as how they correlated immigrants from outer space to immigrants in real life. Or like how Parasite's intentions, before being transformed, were noble, as he was working to help prevent Global Warming.


Television should be entertaining, but should also hold a mirror up to the world, in some way. Yes, the "target demographic" is 18-49 year olds. But children and teens watch these shows. And the lessons they take from what they watch in their youth stays with them their entire lives.

That being said, I feel like Berlanti DC TV shows have found that balance. I particularly enjoy Legends of Tomorrow on some of these issues. When you have an episode in the 1950's, and a young woman can't express how she is attracted to Sara, or Jax is persecuted for going on a date with a white girl...it points a mirror back at society, showing how far we have come, but still how far we have yet to go. People still struggle with understanding and being comfortable with their sexuality. And while we like to think (and hope) that racism isn't as bad as it once was, it's still an uphill battle.

That was a long winded response, and it may not necessarily be what you meant, but I've always found it effective, and extremely important, for fictional television to address real cultural issues in a fictional medium. It's one of the things that made Star Trek so revolutionary.